Master Limiters

[JD01]

OK, I basically know fuck all about them.
I just use the Reaper event horizon limiter. This one:

Limiter.JPG

I slide Threshold along until the mix gets louder, I find the point where it starts clipping and gets awful. Then I pull it back a bit.
I don't know why it gets louder when you move the threshold down, on "normal" compressors it gets quieter. Why is this?
How would I replicate what this does using a normal compressor?
I don't know what ceiling means. Any bright ideas?
Other simple limiters appear to have threshold and output. Does this mean that output is like make up gain on a normal compressor.

"Best free limiter" googling seems to come up with stuff which is similar to Event Horizon, albeit prettier.
To utter fucking madness like this:

No 6 limiter.JPG

[Bubba]

OK, I basically know fuck all about them.
I just use the Reaper event horizon limiter. This one:
Limiter.JPG
I slide Threshold along until the mix gets louder, I find the point where it starts clipping and gets awful. Then I pull it back a bit.
I don't know why it gets louder when you move the threshold down, on "normal" compressors it gets quieter. Why is this?
How would I replicate what this does using a normal compressor?
I don't know what ceiling means. Any bright ideas?
Other simple limiters appear to have threshold and output. Does this mean that output is like make up gain on a normal compressor.

"Best free limiter" googling seems to come up with stuff which is similar to Event Horizon, albeit prettier.
To utter fucking madness like this:
No 6 limiter.JPG

I use the VladG No.6 limiter. I use a couple of the presets as starting points then tweak some settings if I need to. There are good tutorials on Youtube and the manual is very enlightening. It's a true mastering compressor/limiter, for free. You don't have to use all the modules at once (good idea) and some of the functions are pretty specialised, but I think it's ace.

[musicturtle]

I don't know why it gets louder when you move the threshold down, on "normal" compressors it gets quieter. Why is this?
How would I replicate what this does using a normal compressor?
I don't know what ceiling means. Any bright ideas?
Other simple limiters appear to have threshold and output. Does this mean that output is like make up gain on a normal compressor.

A compressor should not get quieter because you raise the threshold. The threshold in both cases is the point at which gain reduction begins to occur.

A limiter is basically a compressor that reduces gain at a very high ratio.

The ceiling is the absolute maximum gain that will be let through.

If you set the release too quick it will pump, too slow you may have artifacts of clipping.

[musicturtle]

A compessor should get louder when ratio is lower and softer when ratio is higher.

[Bubba]

A compressor should not get quieter because you raise the threshold. The threshold in both cases is the point at which gain reduction begins to occur.

A limiter is basically a compressor that reduces gain at a very high ratio.

The ceiling is the absolute maximum gain that will be let through.

If you set the release too quick it will pump, too slow you may have artifacts of clipping.

Good summary.

Perhaps the Event Horizon plugin has Automatic Make Up Gain?

[JD01]

Perhaps the Event Horizon plugin has Automatic Make Up Gain?

No idea - have a look! I'd love to know.

[paulman]

To utter fucking madness like this:
No 6 limiter.JPG

I use the VladG No.6 limiter. I use a couple of the presets as starting points then tweak some settings if I need to. There are good tutorials on Youtube and the manual is very enlightening. It's a true mastering compressor/limiter, for free. You don't have to use all the modules at once (good idea) and some of the functions are pretty specialised, but I think it's ace.

I second that. I also use that limiter. I probably should study up on how to really get the most out of it, but I get good results just by tweaking presets. I mostly use it for mastering, but I have on occasion used it on a vocal or instrument when I needed transparent limiting.

[Tadpui]

I think I have that No. 6 limiter somewhere in my stash of rarely-used VSTs. I like the features, I just never spent enough time with it to get much other than obviously pumping mixes.

Recently I've started to mix into an instance of Solid Bus Comp on the master bus, and I use Waves L2 to "loudify" my mixes so they aren't too quiet next to commercial ones.

I never knew about Event Horizon, I'll have to go check that one out! It seems that every time I turn around, there's another VST included in Reaper that I never knew about and is really cool. From how you described it, it sounds like it behaves just like L2 does.

[JD01]

I think I have that No. 6 limiter somewhere in my stash of rarely-used VSTs. I like the features, I just never spent enough time with it to get much other than obviously pumping mixes.

Recently I've started to mix into an instance of Solid Bus Comp on the master bus, and I use Waves L2 to "loudify" my mixes so they aren't too quiet next to commercial ones.

I never knew about Event Horizon, I'll have to go check that one out! It seems that every time I turn around, there's another VST included in Reaper that I never knew about and is really cool. From how you described it, it sounds like it behaves just like L2 does.

[mention]Armistice[/mention] told me about Event Horizon a few years ago - I think he used it on the Honey Hunters album.

I kind of have it in my head that mastering is, a bit of compression, a bit of EQ and making it louder... which I don't think is un-true (correct me if I'm wrong). But I really don't understand the terminology associated with it.. like why the hell my mix gets louder when I move the Threshold down to -12. Does this mean I'm adding 12db to my mix?

[Bubba]

why the hell my mix gets louder when I move the Threshold down to -12. Does this mean I'm adding 12db to my mix?

As I say, it may be that Event Horizon makes up the gain drop automatically; when I lower the threshold on Red3, the mix gets quieter and I have to adjust the makeup gain to get the same perceived loudness.

Thinking about it, this must definitely be what is happening. The limiter is used to bring up the loudness of the mix, to put it simplistically, so any increase in the proportion of the mix that is getting limited would have to be compensated for with an automated gain increase.

[JD01]

why the hell my mix gets louder when I move the Threshold down to -12. Does this mean I'm adding 12db to my mix?

As I say, it may be that Event Horizon makes up the gain drop automatically; when I lower the threshold on Red3, the mix gets quieter and I have to adjust the makeup gain to get the same perceived loudness.

Yeah - so I don't quite understand what's going on.
So, with Event Horizon above. Am I basically sticking 12db of gain reduction on an ~infinity ratio limiter which is then automatically made up with 12db of make up gain?

[Bubba]

As I say, it may be that Event Horizon makes up the gain drop automatically; when I lower the threshold on Red3, the mix gets quieter and I have to adjust the makeup gain to get the same perceived loudness.

Yeah - so I don't quite understand what's going on.
So, with Event Horizon above. Am I basically sticking 12db of gain reduction on an ~infinity ratio limiter which is then automatically made up with 12db of make up gain?

Yes, see above. That must be what the plugin does.

[JD01]

Yeah - so I don't quite understand what's going on.
So, with Event Horizon above. Am I basically sticking 12db of gain reduction on an ~infinity ratio limiter which is then automatically made up with 12db of make up gain?

Yes, see above. That must be what the plugin does.

Cheers... I thought that might be what it does... which leads to me to the other question.. of what's the point? Couldn't you just use any compressor, like, say, Red3 and just balance the make up gain against the reduction.

[Armistice]

[mention]JD01[/mention] - I've never actually used the version of EH in Reaper - I only recently saw it was bundled up there. I've used the "original" which I got as a "free" VST from Stillwell Audio. Now I'm sure they're the same, but the one I use has an interface with faux meters etc. which I turn off.

Here's the blurb - should give you more info on it. https://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/event-horizon/

Also, I've gotten wary when talking with peeps about "increasing" and "decreasing" and "fast" and "slow" with compressors - I've discovered we're not always saying the same thing. I work strictly off the numbers. So if I'm increasing the threshold, I'm going from -4 to -2, not from -2 to -4. I suspect not everyone talks about these things the same way.

I ditched EH for Honey Hunters and have been using One Limiter, but I used it for The Jongleurs - as part of a chain (and i got this from an online forum somewhere so who knows if it's good advice) that also has two instances of GClip in it, so EH doesn't do that much, just the last few dB - I've never had it anywhere near -12.

[JD01]

@JD01 - I've never actually used the version of EH in Reaper - I only recently saw it was bundled up there. I've used the "original" which I got as a "free" VST from Stillwell Audio. Now I'm sure they're the same, but the one I use has an interface with faux meters etc. which I turn off.

Here's the blurb - should give you more info on it. https://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/event-horizon/

Also, I've gotten wary when talking with peeps about "increasing" and "decreasing" and "fast" and "slow" with compressors - I've discovered we're not always saying the same thing. I work strictly off the numbers. So if I'm increasing the threshold, I'm going from -4 to -2, not from -2 to -4. I suspect not everyone talks about these things the same way.

I ditched EH for Honey Hunters and have been using One Limiter, but I used it for The Jongleurs - as part of a chain (and i got this from an online forum somewhere so who knows if it's good advice) that also has two instances of GClip in it, so EH doesn't do that much, just the last few dB - I've never had it anywhere near -12.

I don't tend to have my mix really loud to start with so I've probably got a fair bit more room to add more volume with EH.

[Bubba]

Yes, see above. That must be what the plugin does.

Cheers... I thought that might be what it does... which leads to me to the other question.. of what's the point? Couldn't you just use any compressor, like, say, Red3 and just balance the make up gain against the reduction.

For an extremely simple Louderiser, Event Horizon does the job. It's a piss-simple thing that works for the job it is meant to do. Time for you to move on.....

[Armistice]

Here's the blurb from Stillwell Audio - and there's lots of reviews out there...

"Its a “Peak-Eating Limiter”…huh? Well, maybe a better description is that it’s a clipper with an optional soft-clip circuit. Its output is what comes into it…only louder. Push it too hard on some audio and it will tell you in no uncertain terms that this is no longer the right tool for the job. Perhaps the right tool would be a high-quality traditional lookahead limiter? Fine – Event Horizon is also exactly that!

Event Horizon absurdly easy to use : set your threshold for how deep you want it to dig, the input meter will help with that. Set your ceiling for where you want to end up. If you’re clipping, set how soft you want the clipping to be. That’s it, now just let your ears decide.

Soft-clip limiting
By truncating waveforms short of where the DAC would go into clipping, Event Horizon’s can achieve VERY transparent loudness increases with ZERO pumping, ZERO transient or frequency artifacts, and with ZERO latency.

Traditional Lookahead Limiting
How does Event Horizon’s soft clipping compare to a high-quality traditional lookahead limiter? Well that’s exactly what you get, and with a flip of the switch you can compare and contrast. Easy, eh?"

[JD01]

Cheers... I thought that might be what it does... which leads to me to the other question.. of what's the point? Couldn't you just use any compressor, like, say, Red3 and just balance the make up gain against the reduction.

For an extremely simple Louderiser, Event Horizon does the job. It's a piss-simple thing that works for the job it is meant to do. Time for you to move on.....

Why though? It appears to be doing what I want/need it to do. Although I would like to know what it's doing!

[Tadpui]

It's just an automatic makeup gain, so the more you crush it with the limiter, the more it makes up to account for the limiting. Same as Waves L1/L2 (and probably L3 but I haven't used that one). That's good to know about, I'm going to play around with this one tonight! I somehow never noticed it in the plugin list in Reaper.

[Farview]

I don't think it's actually auto makeup gain. The threshold control just adds gain and pushes the audio up into the ceiling, where the limiting happens.

That's how it works differently from a normal compressor. On a normal compressor, the threshold is the point where the compression kicks in. On a mastering limiter, the limiting kicks in at the ceiling and the threshold is actually how much gain you are adding to the signal to push it into the ceiling.