Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Greg_L
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:57 am The low input thing... I've had an amp with a low input before. I don't think I ever even put a lead in it. What do they actually do?
It depends on the amp as to how they do it, but the end result is always an attenuated input signal. The "high" and "low" inputs, or 1 & 2, or however they're named have different impedances. These different impedances affect how much of the guitar's tiny output voltage hits the first tube stage.

Generalized history lesson if anyone's interested:

Amps in the very early days had multiple inputs, usually for instruments and microphones. A guitar player could sing and play through one amp. The two channels ran in parallel inside the amp and got mixed together downstream. In general though if you plugged a guitar into the mic input it would distort wildly because mics are so weak and their dedicated inputs had extreme sensitivity. A guitar would send that gain stage into distortion. No one wanted that back then. The folklore goes that Leo Fender made the two input idea the way they are now so players could use single coils or humbuckers. Leo wanted his amps sounding very clean. Clean and loud was Fender's goal. Fender guitars into Fender amps for the clean chimy Leo Fender sound. But Gibsons were hitting the scene hard at that time and players were using P90s and these new pickups called humbuckers too. Humbuckers would easily drive the first stage into distortion so he tweaked the multiple input setup to where the second input was attenuated and humbucker users could use that input so the signal wouldn't distort so easily. It turned out that guitar players were turning on to the distorted sound and they liked driving that first input hard so the "low" input kind of became redundant for most people. In hindsight it's one of the few things Leo got wrong. Leo fought and fought against distortion. The players wanted more and more of it.

And then here comes Marshall who just copied the 5F6 Bassman...along with it's high/low inputs. Vox too. So now you had big-name amps all over the place with high/low inputs and it just became the norm. Marshall did something different though because they had to - they used different tubes. Higher gain tubes. Higher gain rock and roll guitar as we know it was born. The earliest Marshalls and late 50s Bassmans were basically the same amp, but Marshalls were louder and nastier because they used 12AX7s in the preamp as opposed to Fender's 12AY7.

Marshall took it one step further later on in the mid 70s with the 2203/2204 master volume amps and the inputs played a role. They took the often unused "normal" channel on Plexi/Bassman style amps and stacked it into the bright channel circuit as another gain stage...a cascaded gain stage. High gain amps were born without adding tubes and a bunch of other shit. The high/low inputs play a big role in this set up. You plug into the "high" input, the guitar signal hits the first gain stage, and then it routes back to the low input. Since you're plugged into the high input, the low input jack is closed and the signal slides right on through it to the "preamp volume" control. From there it's sent to the second stage and on to the rest of the amp. The thing with this setup is the low input is way way way less gainy than the high input because the low input comes after the first gain stage. It's not just an impedance thing, it's bypassing an entire gain stage. You plug into low and you go straight to the preamp volume pot and then to the second stage. The difference between the inputs is enormous on a JMP/JCM 2203/2204. The low input is crazy clean while the high input will rip your face off. A lot of "pedal guys" prefer the low input. It's much less loud and wild and they can get their tones through pedals or whatever.


Back to my amp, I think I'll keep the two inputs per channel because I do plan on actually using the bass channel as a bass amp. I'll probably like the low input on the bass channel for bass guitar recording. :sherlock:
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JD01
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Cheers. Interesting.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Ooooh here's a nice grill cloth for this project.

Image
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JD01
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Greg_L wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:52 pm Ooooh here's a nice grill cloth for this project.

Image
Have you been ruffling through my wardrobe?
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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JD01 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:58 pm
Have you been ruffling through my wardrobe?
Yeah and I saw all your limp bizkit t-shirts. :mad3:
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Greg_L wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:06 pm
JD01 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:58 pm
Have you been ruffling through my wardrobe?
Yeah and I saw all your limp bizkit t-shirts. :mad3:
Jesus Greg... even by your standards that's low!... you should never touch a man's limp bizkit t shirts.
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Greg_L
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:21 pm
Jesus Greg... even by your standards that's low!... you should never touch a man's limp bizkit t shirts.
I swear I didn't touch them. Just seeing them was bad enough. :eek:
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Armistice
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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The low input on my Laney is crackly, so doesn't get used. Liked the high better anyway.

Hoping the amps survive the trip north. 😬
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Greg_L wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:52 pm Ooooh here's a nice grill cloth for this project.

Image
that is nice .... the blue will make it sit with the blue tolex nicely!
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:04 am that is nice .... the blue will make it sit with the blue tolex nicely!
Yeah I'm thinking that grillcloth will look great for this project. And it's unique. I've never seen it before.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

Post by rayc »

I learnt to linked the high & low through you mob...Greg specifically...it's almost hardwired as I found a tone & have stuck to it. I remember some MIJ solid state amps from the early 70s with a mic input.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Greg_L wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:07 am
Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:04 am that is nice .... the blue will make it sit with the blue tolex nicely!
Yeah I'm thinking that grillcloth will look great for this project. And it's unique. I've never seen it before.
where'd you find it?
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:55 am where'd you find it?
Mojotone.

I also found this site....https://www.fabricempire.com/

All sorts of wild ass textiles for coverings. :lollers2:
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Greg_L wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:59 am
Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:55 am where'd you find it?
Mojotone.

I also found this site....https://www.fabricempire.com/

All sorts of wild ass textiles for coverings. :lollers2:
some great stuff for one of those fabric fronted git bodies
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:39 pm
some great stuff for one of those fabric fronted git bodies
Yeah and I even toyed with the idea of a faux fur covering. Blue and black leopard spots would look pretty gaudy and cool IMO. But I'm pretty settled on the blue sparkle tolex. Fur is awesome but I'd hate to try to keep that shit clean.

I'm gonna go sparkly 70s speedboat style blue tolex.
That black/blue grill cloth pictured above.
The chassis will be flat black with a white control panel making up the bulk of the panel real estate.
Blue knobs and pilot light.
Black handle...maybe a white one if I can find one.
White piping around the grill cloth.
Removable casters so it can roll or sit on it's feet.

I need to decide on a speaker too.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Greg_L wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:37 pm
I need to decide on a speaker too.
I have a 200 watt EV that came outta the 6101
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:42 pm
I have a 200 watt EV that came outta the 6101
Jeez why would they put that speaker in a 6100? Weird.

I'm thinking something in the 60-65 watt range. I don't know much about "Fender" speakers. I need to research.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Greg_L wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:55 pm
Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:42 pm
I have a 200 watt EV that came outta the 6101
Jeez why would they put that speaker in a 6100? Weird.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that was the standard speaker the first year or two.
It has a certain sound of its own.

Weber might be a good place to look .... they make widely praised clones of those early Jensens

BUT .... if you're gonna use it for bass you might want to think beefier than what they used.
I've always found that, as a bass amp, Fender Bassmans were good guitar amps :razz: ..... just farty and pitchless on bass to my ears although at low recording volumes it would be fine..
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:24 pm I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that was the standard speaker the first year or two.
It has a certain sound of its own.

Weber might be a good place to look .... they make widely praised clones of those early Jensens

BUT .... if you're gonna use it for bass you might want to think beefier than what they used.
I've always found that, as a bass amp, Fender Bassmans were good guitar amps :razz: ..... just farty and pitchless on bass to my ears although at low recording volumes it would be fine..
Yeah the only bass action this amp will see is light duty recording. I'm not a gigging bassist and don't want to be one and even if I was this is not the amp I'd want to use. I'm thinking at most this amp might pump out 40-45 watts. A 65 watt speaker will sound good for guitar and be safe enough for low volume bass recording.

And really I'll still probably run it through my 4x12s anyway. Just because it's a combo doesn't mean I will always want to use it that way. My original intent was to make a removable speaker baffle and hide the reverb unit back there when applicable.
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Re: Gut and refurb old ss combo

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It needs an illuminated Nubbie

I'm gonna tell ya' ....... I know you love all your Marshalls and that will never change.

BUT ..... there's something special about a one-of-a-kind custom made thing as long as it performs.

I've never loved an amp the way I love BOB and gRamp ...... another deluxe or 18 watt might sound as good but these are special ..... absolutely the only ones just like mine on Earth and they're two of my most treasured posessions.

My Stinnett is like that ..... it's great and it's the only one there is ..... in a fire I'd grab the Stinnett and those two amps first ...... well, and then perish because that's too much to carry so let's make it a storm evacuation instead! :lollers:

And on this thing, you're gonna be doing all that work!


This is gonna be your favorite amp when all's said and done.
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