Piano in a mix

[JD01]

My playing still isn't good enough for a keeper take on this but I guess tips on piano in a mix will be slow coming!

At the moment I have what I think is just about the right amount of reverb, the L and R outs from the Piano panned 50 50 and a slight high pass on it... but its not quite working. Any other bright ideas?

Interlude w piano.mp3

[einstein magoo]

Crappy headphones on a laptop but the bass is not well defined mucking up the rest of the mix to me. Maybe pare this down to get the piano to sound how you like it with just the one guitar, then you can add the other stuff? You guys know way more than me about how to put things together, just what I'm hearing. Good work JD!

I know, not a keeper yet but watch the rushing on the piano. I can't tell if you are playing any lower piano notes or if it's just the twinkling on top? If you're playing the left hand on piano, maybe drop that to clear up the bass? All questions from me, no answers.

[ocnor]

I think that you need to use more reverb to create front to back space. I also agree about the bass sounding sort of smeared.

[JD01]

Cheers, I'll look into it. Having never mixed a piano I don't really know where to start

[paulman]

What I have are not so much mixing tips as tips on playing piano to fit in the band. The first and most important is what einstein magoo mentioned, which is bass notes on piano. I also can't tell if you're doing that on this mix, because I'm on my laptop speakers right now. But it's kind of the most important rule of playing piano in a group setting, so it's worth talking about regardless. Stay out of the range of the bass. That rule is probably more hardcore in a jazz setting, and as with most things in rock is a rule that can be broken for effect. But it is something to always be aware of.

Same goes for playing piano with a guitar. Play in a different range than the guitar, and do something different. In this clip the piano and one of the guitars are both playing arpeggios in their own way, and it sounds kind of cluttered. If the arpeggio guitar isn't more important elsewhere in the song outside this clip, personally I would cut it. If it needs to stay, I'd do something different with it.

Playing like this will make EQ in the mix less of an issue.

Your piano playing is coming along great. How long has it been now?

[JD01]

Cheers, mate. When remixing this I'll start with just the piano and gradually bring the other instruments in around it so see where my problem lies.

Not sure how long I've been playing probably 3 or 4 months but I've pretty inconsistent with it... I have a pile of guitar to play too! I do think about a lot though which I think is an undervalued form of practice.

[vomitHatSteve]

I'm not as familiar with electric piano, but in my experience piano has usually sat pretty well with very little treatment. Of course, that depends on the role it's supposed to play. If it's for texture/tone, turn it down real quiet. If it's a lead instrument, piano covers every register, so it's probably easier to make other instruments get out of its way.

[paulman]

Not sure how long I've been playing probably 3 or 4 months but I've pretty inconsistent with it... I have a pile of guitar to play too! I do think about a lot though which I think is an undervalued form of practice.

Well, I decided to work on my piano playing about the same time you did, and I haven't touched it since. Inconsistency would be a step up for me. I have made some strides vocally in the last few months though, and I'm starting to knock the rust off my lead guitar playing (and hopefully improve beyond that). I still feel like I should be a piano player, though.

You're right, practicing in your head is valuable when you can't actually do it. I was taught to do that with martial arts, and it carries over to everything else.

[JD01]

Not sure how long I've been playing probably 3 or 4 months but I've pretty inconsistent with it... I have a pile of guitar to play too! I do think about a lot though which I think is an undervalued form of practice.

Well, I decided to work on my piano playing about the same time you did, and I haven't touched it since. Inconsistency would be a step up for me. I have made some strides vocally in the last few months though, and I'm starting to knock the rust off my lead guitar playing (and hopefully improve beyond that). I still feel like I should be a piano player, though.

You're right, practicing in your head is valuable when you can't actually do it. I was taught to do that with martial arts, and it carries over to everything else.

Yeah, I used to practice my boxing in my head too. That worked really well.

[rayc]

Nice playing...each time I use piano or organ etc in a mix I reduce it to stereo. The left hand stuff muddies things and doesn't really having position cues so creates all sort of probs so I reduce to mono and high pass to reduce conflict with bass guitar UNLESS the piano is on its own. The click of the kick also sounds a little of in the mix.
Mind you I'm not one to mix keyboards often.

[paulman]

Yeah, I used to practice my boxing in my head too. That worked really well.

Reminds me of that Monty Python sketch where they have great philosophers playing football, and they stand around pondering before making a move.

[JD01]

Yeah, I used to practice my boxing in my head too. That worked really well.

Reminds me of that Monty Python sketch where they have great philosophers playing football, and they stand around pondering before making a move.

haha

Anyway - I've had a good play about with the EQ on the paino - think there might be a bit more work to be done yet and I reckon I'll be able to do a more natural take on the piano where its not so obvious how hard I'm thinking!

But, here you go!

Interlude w piano.mp3

[SweetDan]

Nice - the EQ in the latest recording definitely helped make the piano sound more clear.

However, from the comments it's not clear what you're trying to do with the piano. Is it supposed to be a "lead" instrument, or part of the soft background the rest of the tune rests on? If the piano has the lead here, it still sits back too far in the mix.

I recall you've got an electric keyboard, right? One thing you could try is to use different built-in samples (or virtual instrument/VST, if that's what you're using). Maybe the sound you want is in there.... Not unlike mic'ing a guitar cabinet, the variety of recorded sounds that can be captured from a piano varies greatly by mic choice and position. (Check this out: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/how-t ... d-a-piano/)