Piano Playing Goals

[JD01]

Alright, Dudes. I'm learning to play the Piano, [mention]paulman[/mention] is learning to play the piano, a few of you already do.

Just thought I'd start a thread discussing it and coming up with any ideas to help learning.

My strategy so far has been pretty basic.
1. I've learned some basic exercises. Just things to get my different fingers working in time together.
Getting both hands doing thumb, 1st, middle, ring and pinky in time with eachother. And then doing them the other way around. Thumb on one hand pinky on the other etc.
2. I've started picking a few songs to try and learn. I initially started with Tiny Dancer and quickly found out that Elton is a pretty good pianist. So I'm working on Imagine by John Lennon, melody bit over the top of the chords. This seems to be working OK. (I'll keep Tiny Dancer as my end goal!)
3. I've got someone to give me a Piano lesson - I think they want to start by teaching me to read sheet music though so I might fuck them off pretty quickly. I want someone to teach me some technique and some songs really. I think piano teachers have a way of doing things though.

How is anyone else going out learning?
If you can already play and give me a few simple songs to learn or exercises that you think would be beneficial that would be helpful.

[Armistice]

I did two years of formal piano as a kid, and can pick out chords and plonk around a bit these days, so long as it's in a sympathetic key and doesn't have too many black notes, but I long ago gave up trying to relearn properly. Had a couple of goes and my brain rejected the idea, or I didn't have the patience, most likely.

Scales are boring as shit, but doing the C major scale, and then when you've nailed that, something slightly more exotic like D, starting from the root note - middle C, both thumbs, right hand goes up the piano, and left hand goes down - 2 octaves, correct fingering, 3, under, 4, under, 3, under and then back the opposite way to the root note - is a really good way to get your hands operating in a piano playing fashion.

So by all means learn some songs, but do some scales as well. If your brain screams "No! I can't do this" when you try, then that's the hurdle you'll need to get over to ever be competent. Practice will get you there.

[JD01]

Not sure what you mean with that scale exercise.. Can you find a link to a video of it?

I actually don't mind scale exercises. I just try and treat them as a challenge... like they're a video game or something.

[paulman]

Piano was my first instrument. I had just seen Karate Kid in the theater, and also had been futzing around on our little Yamaha keyboard (complete with the requisite bossa nova and other cheesy beats) figuring things out by ear. My mom gave me the choice of piano lessons or karate lessons, so for whatever reason I chose to start with piano. I'd be a lot better at it had I not resisted scales and all the things I was supposed to be practicing to become a real piano player. I just liked to learn popular songs, that was it. Just rote learning. My piano teacher tried to work with this, so she was fine with me learning pop songs, but she also tried to get me into jazz so that I would learn more technical stuff. Didn't really work, and I didn't get into jazz until I started playing guitar a few years later. On a side note, it was pretty funny that she was a huge Beatles fan but also a zealous Southern Baptist. She would play me Imagine on the stereo but couldn't help but comment on the lyrics and about how Lennon is in hell right now. She about had a heart attack when I brought in a Motley Crue song. I thought "decadence" was a musical term, so I didn't understand why she made such a face at the album title "Decade of Decadence". Anyway, fast forward to today, after a career of guitar playing and having music theory beat into me by drill sergeants, whatever ability I have on piano really just comes from knowing theory. You can see it all laid out clearly on piano, which is what makes it MUCH easier than guitar. I read, but I'm not a fluent sightreader. If I were, I'd learn things on piano a lot more quickly. So that's what I plan to work on first, my sightreading. For this purpose, I bought a hymnal where it's all full chords with the chord name at the top. That way you can get accustomed to what different chords look like when spelled out on a staff, and your reading gets faster as you recognize chords at a glance without having the chord symbols to help you. If I wasn't clear in explaining that, I'll find the YouTube video where I got the idea.

Long story short, reading is pretty important to learning piano. Although I have not put in the time to be good at it yet, it's FAR easier than reading on guitar.

[Armistice]

Start with both thumbs on middle C. Play two octaves of C major scale with right and left hands going in opposite directions, right hand ascending, left hand descending. At the same time.

If your thumb is 1 and your pinky is 5, the fingering goes 1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5 then in reverse back to middle C.

So LH C RH C, LH B RH D, LH A RH E, LH G RH F etc. both hands playing a note at the same time for two octaves using the fingering as above.

I'm sure there's a YouTube out there somewhere but it's a hard search as mainly I'm just getting one handed C scales.

C is easy as it's all white notes. Gets more complicated when you try D and have to add black notes in which appear in different places in the sequence. Really useful brain training for dissociating left and right hands.

[Armistice]

Plus, what Paulman says. You need the theory and to be able to read at a reasonable level.

[JD01]

Start with both thumbs on middle C. Play two octaves of C major scale with right and left hands going in opposite directions, right hand ascending, left hand descending. At the same time.

If your thumb is 1 and your pinky is 5, the fingering goes 1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5 then in reverse back to middle C.

So LH C RH C, LH B RH D, LH A RH E, LH G RH F etc. both hands playing a note at the same time for two octaves using the fingering as above.

I'm sure there's a YouTube out there somewhere but it's a hard search as mainly I'm just getting one handed C scales.

C is easy as it's all white notes. Gets more complicated when you try D and have to add black notes in which appear in different places in the sequence. Really useful brain training for dissociating left and right hands.

Cheers, that makes sense.
I don't have a problem with the theory until people start talking about really complex chords.

[Armistice]

I do wonder if drummers would make good pianists as a rule, given their ability to separate left and right hands and get them doing different things.

[Bill L]

I do wonder if drummers would make good pianists as a rule, given their ability to separate left and right hands and get them doing different things.

A couple of my drummer buddies are good to way better than average on keys.

As an aside, I have found that the best musicians tend to play more than 1 instrument at average to better than average (and up to extreme profisency). I've been wanting to learn keys for a while and this thread will probably be the catalyst in my journey.

[paulman]

I do wonder if drummers would make good pianists as a rule, given their ability to separate left and right hands and get them doing different things.

That's an interesting thought. Xylophones and similar instruments that are basically big keyboards, are percussion instruments. I don't know how it works in the orchestral world, but in the military drummers are required to play them as part of their job description. I only knew one drummer who was really good at it though.

[vomitHatSteve]

Took lessons all throughout elementary and middle school. Didn't much care for it, but it gave me the theory base for every other instrument.

I endorse learning to read proper sheet music for it. The best pianists are the ones who can sit down and blind read a sheet rather than the ones who can play by ear.

(These days, I can sheet read at 1/10th time or plonk out some basic chords if they don't need precise timing)

[Armistice]

Took lessons all throughout elementary and middle school. Didn't much care for it, but it gave me the theory base for every other instrument.

I endorse learning to read proper sheet music for it. The best pianists are the ones who can sit down and blind read a sheet rather than the ones who can play by ear.

(These days, I can sheet read at 1/10th time or plonk out some basic chords if they don't need precise timing)

Sounds like me. We should do a "four hands" thing - it'd be fucking awful...

[SweetDan]

Lots of good suggestions here; I second the idea of learning to read music notation. Also practice scales and similar exercises (your teacher may suggest "Hanon" exercises - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBWa2S_cWkA for an example of what these exercises are, but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF1_zGpwbPQ for an example of how to move your hands and fingers) - it's not just the physical action that's important to get your fingers moving, but mental as your nerves are firing to coordinate things, just like learning to play any other instrument.

One tip is when it seems hard to play a section of music or an exercise, practice each hand separately first, then try to play it again with both hands together. And play slowly and work up speed incrementally. (Again, just like learning to play any other instrument.)

[JD01]

Start with both thumbs on middle C. Play two octaves of C major scale with right and left hands going in opposite directions, right hand ascending, left hand descending. At the same time.

If your thumb is 1 and your pinky is 5, the fingering goes 1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5 then in reverse back to middle C.

So LH C RH C, LH B RH D, LH A RH E, LH G RH F etc. both hands playing a note at the same time for two octaves using the fingering as above.

I'm sure there's a YouTube out there somewhere but it's a hard search as mainly I'm just getting one handed C scales.

C is easy as it's all white notes. Gets more complicated when you try D and have to add black notes in which appear in different places in the sequence. Really useful brain training for dissociating left and right hands.

I have an hour this evening and I'm learning this. It's a really good exercise. Up to now I hadn't worked our how my fingers should "overtake" each other if that makes sense.
Once I can do it fluidly in C I'll move onto G and D. The other keys that I (and probably most guitarisrs) use.

[Armistice]

Maybe try it one handed first to get that bit sorted. Anyone here who's actually learnt as a kid will tell you about scale practice - and getting your thumb to go under after 3 or 4 notes. I haven't played properly since I was about 11 or 12 and I can still do that really fluidly. Once you get it, it's with you forever.

[JD01]

Maybe try it one handed first to get that bit sorted. Anyone here who's actually learnt as a kid will tell you about scale practice - and getting your thumb to go under after 3 or 4 notes. I haven't played properly since I was about 11 or 12 and I can still do that really fluidly. Once you get it, it's with you forever.

Ah.. I just jumped straight into two handed! I'm trying to go up and down scales in the same direction now. That's a little harder cos your fingers aren't in synch that way. I've also just worked out how to put the chords (Em and G so not challenging) and melody together for About A Girl by nirvana...
If it sounds like my practice isn't particularly structured its cos it isn't.

[einstein magoo]

Mom played piano and played well. Older sister got lessons. Lessons were never offered to me and doubt that I would have taken them at the time.
I can pretty well pick out a right hand melody by ear on just about any tune. Most of my playing is right hand three note chords and left hand octave bass. I'm more of a rhythm piano player. I can read sheet music (very slowly) and slowly plunk out a two handed song from the music, but it is painful for anyone who had to listen at the speed I go in learning something.

Learned the treble clef playing clarinet in school 3rd grade thru junior high. Bass clef still mystifies me but I can make my way through.

Most of my key playing is by ear, and I have a very good ear, but can't be arsed (as you say) to really get in there and learn the instrument properly.

Good luck JD! You will do well. You seem to be one of those types that works through a challenge. I usually just give up, and crank up the volume to hide my many mistakes.

[JD01]

Cheers Einstein. My ears not great, but I am committed!

Oddly, one I find it easier to pick out melodies using my right hand on the piano than I do on the guitar.

[JD01]

Just had a good piano hour. First time I felt like I was just jamming away on the thing like I would on the guitar.

Was fun. I think I will end up sticking with this.

[Armistice]

How's Für Elise coming along?