NGD....this time it's serious

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Greg_L
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:57 am Ive been watching this with interest mate, nice score.

A couple of things that you may want to consider.

The bridge. When I have come across really futzed up saddles and stuff I have had some joy taking them to a watch or clock repairer. They use an ultrasonic cleaner that lifts most of the shit thats in there. I suspect that some of the parts will be die cast so you want to avoid using anodic cleaning or anything with too much acidity or electrolysis. That can make matters worse. Die cast parts have microscopic pores in there and they can bust out and look terrible. Just a heads up as I learned the hard way. If they aint die cast you are good. A decent electroplating shop would also be able to help you out.. You may have it right when you say you are getting a replacement and keeping the old one for reference and originality. Thats what I would do.

The pickups. If they are epoxy potted which I suspect they are you aint going to be able to save anything that isnt already removable. If ever they die on you the thing to do would be to save the covers and poles and have them rebuilt from there. Be careful what you use to free up the pole pieces. Some types of lubricant can eat away at the enamel on the windings if it finds a way in there.


Once again mate, nice score. I may well be in touch for some detail shots and measurements at some point down the road...
Thanks mutt. Yes, my goal with this guitar is to have it be functional and playable while being very mindful of it's vintage value and keeping it correct. I'm not changing anything on this guitar that can't easily be changed back. I very much want it to be what it is. I don't want to turn it into anything else. Putting a OEM-style replacement bridge in place to make it playable and saving the original is a no-brainer to me. That's nothing.

I think the original bridge base piece is stamped steel and chrome plated, the saddles appear to be machined steel. None of the bridge mechanism seems to be cast. All of the bridge assembly will stick to a magnet. I've got it physically clean enough for my satisfaction. The only problem with it, besides the adjustment bolt that I broke, is that none of the rollers in the saddles will roll. They are cruddy. Interesting idea about the clock guy. I know of one right down the street in a strip mall. It's called "vintage clocks" or something like that. He's right between a barber shop and a donut shop. Lol. I always thought it was a weird place for a clock repair shop and now strangely enough I have a reason to go there. :lollers2:

I've seen pics of Mosrite pickups with a lot more epoxy goop in them than mine seem to have. I've tried researching how they're made. They seem to use corrugated looking snap-to-length A5 magnets, wound with a ton of turns, and sealed in epoxy. Then the whole shebang is packed into the cover with a piece of foam, literally, a strip of foam. The "backing plate" is nothing more than a piece of flat bar that spans across the bottom with threaded holes on the ends for pickup height adjustments. Then that too is epoxied into the foam. All of the parts are completely home made. Really primitive and weird. I suspect that just getting through the epoxy would require a rewind. I don't see how you'd get that epoxy off of there without damaging the wire. I've also read that being microphonic is just part of the charm of Mosrite pickups. If that's true then my pickups are probably exactly how they're supposed to be and I'll just deal with it. :guitarhero:

If a pickup replacement does eventually have to happen, I'll just get some reproductions. There are some options out there. Maybe you can build some! :illdrinktothat:
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Bubba
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Holy hell, Greg, what a fantastic day it must be to you. Magnificent.
Haggard Musician :mad:
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

Post by Greg_L »

Bubba wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:54 pm Holy hell, Greg, what a fantastic day it must be to you. Magnificent.
Ha yes it doesn't suck for me right now.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Bridge news...

Talked to two different clock repair guys on the old telephone today to see if it's possible they can un-gunk the rollers. Neither will touch it. Lol. Both of them asked what it is, I explained it. Both of them asked "can you get another one if we ruin it"? I had to tell them, "No, not really. Not easily". That was pretty much the end of both conversations. A genuine authentic Mosrite bridge looks to go for around 200 bucks in the used market. And they're all used. They could all be the same cruddiness. I haven't seen any NOS Mosrite bridges hanging around in boxes somewhere, and I aint spending $200 for one when the perfectly functioning knock-off I just ordered was $27. But I am glad to have a 90% functional original bridge that can be adjusted for intonation. That's way more important than roller saddles.

Anyway, so I found some perfect bolts to replace all the cruddy and bent intonation adjustment bolts. Perfect length, perfect fit, only the heads are a little different. This bridge can be adjusted now....still no rollers rolling though.
mostly fixed.jpg

I think the rollers, particularly the low E , are just too crudded and rusted to ever work freely. I can barely even discern the roller from the saddle body on the low E, and the A is pretty crusted too. It might just be how it has to be.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

Post by Cmunch »

Jeezuz that's one ugly geetar 😁
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Cmunch wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:20 pm Jeezuz that's one ugly geetar 😁
Cmunch...I remember the name, but I can't remember if I'm going to kill you or not, so I'll let that slide for now.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Hey fella, think we killed a few forums growing up but somehow managed to resist the urge to kill each other, wasn't easy on my part. 😊
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Greg_L wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:18 am Thanks mutt. Yes, my goal with this guitar is to have it be functional and playable while being very mindful of it's vintage value and keeping it correct. I'm not changing anything on this guitar that can't easily be changed back. I very much want it to be what it is. I don't want to turn it into anything else. Putting a OEM-style replacement bridge in place to make it playable and saving the original is a no-brainer to me. That's nothing.
That was my exact attitude towards my Jazzmaster too. I wanted it to be a player but I wanted to keep it original as possible. It's not going to sit in a glass case and just be pointed at and talked about. It's gotta play well and be a pleasure to bang on!

I replaced my bridge with a Mastery and it is amazing. I think they only do Jazzmaster/Jaguar/Mustang bridges so no luck for Mosrite. But I'd bet that there's somebody out there that makes drop-in replacements for those bridges.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Tadpui wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:32 pm That was my exact attitude towards my Jazzmaster too. I wanted it to be a player but I wanted to keep it original as possible. It's not going to sit in a glass case and just be pointed at and talked about. It's gotta play well and be a pleasure to bang on!
Right! I'm probably not going to take this thing to sweaty snarly punk rock gigs. But I'm going to play it. And I probably will gig it a few times at the better clubs. I know this isn't a do-everything type of guitar so it won't be my main weapon, and that's okay. It's a bucket list kind of thing.
I replaced my bridge with a Mastery and it is amazing. I think they only do Jazzmaster/Jaguar/Mustang bridges so no luck for Mosrite. But I'd bet that there's somebody out there that makes drop-in replacements for those bridges.
I already got one ordered. This one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosrite-Guitar ... SwYvNcmTUv

27 bucks with some credit I had.



Having said all that, I got the original bridge back together and the guitar is strung up.
assembled.jpg
bridge1.jpg
bridge2.jpg
Even with the frozen roller saddles it stays in tune perfectly when wiggling the wang bar! That's pretty sweet. You can see in the profile angle pic how the vibrato arm sticks up a little now. That's after my straightening it out. Before, it was leaning down pretty close to parallel with the strings and that left very little range for down-pitched vibrato wiggles. Now the range is quite good and the spring is doing a fine job. The vibrato works really nicely. I got the intonation pretty damn close. I need to let it sit overnight and re-check the neck and set the action height. The neck has got a tiny bit of back-bow. I need to give it some relief. But overall it already feels way way better. And it sounds awesome. :eep: :coolstorybro:

The neck is very narrow and the frets are freaking tiny. I mean really tiny. And they're worn a little so some of them are actually even smaller. It's almost like they're not even there. The neck at the first few frets is really cramped, but the profile is fairly rounded and chunky. It's pretty comfortable despite the narrowness. It measures 1.585" at the zero fret. A typical Gibson nut width is about 1.700" - Over a tenth of an inch difference that you can really feel. I haven't measured the radius, but it feels tighter than a Gibson's 12" radius, but not as tight as a vintage Fender. I'm thinking it's probably around a 9.5" radius.
frets.jpg
frets2.jpg
profile.jpg

So....more setup tweaks tomorrow. Even with the new bridge ordered, I might just leave the original on here since it seems to be working just fine.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Good job man. That looks like a happier guitar!!

So these roller saddles? Are they there as like little wheels for the strings for when your banging away on the wham arm? This may be really way out to lunch but i have heard people making claims of coca cola being able to free up cruddy rusty parts and pieces. Might be worth a shot go try one of them as a tester. Id keep a parts washer of something pretty handy if i were to try that experiment.

Might be worth a shot?!
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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I would've pooped a little bending that arm
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:51 pm Good job man. That looks like a happier guitar!!
It really is. It's much much better now.
So these roller saddles? Are they there as like little wheels for the strings for when your banging away on the wham arm? This may be really way out to lunch but i have heard people making claims of coca cola being able to free up cruddy rusty parts and pieces. Might be worth a shot go try one of them as a tester. Id keep a parts washer of something pretty handy if i were to try that experiment.

Might be worth a shot?!
Yeah the roller saddles are supposed to roll under the strings as you bang the wang bar. They don't roll much. They just barely turn under the string. I've tried to watch it happen on my Hallmark and you can barely see it happening.

Coke would work to remove rust but it would take forever and I don't know if its strong enough to get through what I need to get through. Vinegar would be faster and it's more powerful. But at this point I'm not sure removing rust would be good enough on some of these saddles. The rust seems to have corroded the roller on a few of them. They're not just stuck, they're rotted.
Lt. Bob wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:01 am I would've pooped a little bending that arm
Lol. It wasn't fun, but it had to be done. I hope to never have to do it again.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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the roller thing as you say aint a biggy if it drops back into tune after using the vibrato.. Good job hunting down those bolts. They can often be a pain to get an exact match.. :like:
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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muttley wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:43 am the roller thing as you say aint a biggy if it drops back into tune after using the vibrato.. Good job hunting down those bolts. They can often be a pain to get an exact match.. :like:
One inch stainless #4 stove bolt. 15 cents a piece at the local mom and pop hardware store. :coolstorybro:
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Greg_L wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:39 am
muttley wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:43 am the roller thing as you say aint a biggy if it drops back into tune after using the vibrato.. Good job hunting down those bolts. They can often be a pain to get an exact match.. :like:
One inch stainless #4 stove bolt. 15 cents a piece at the local mom and pop hardware store. :coolstorybro:
You are lucky you still have a few of those stores. Ours are mostly gone. I have to call around a few supplies if I cant find odd size bolts and etc..
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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muttley wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:16 am
You are lucky you still have a few of those stores. Ours are mostly gone. I have to call around a few supplies if I cant find odd size bolts and etc..
Katy Hardware. Old school hardware store. As soon as you walk in some old guy is ready to show you exactly where whatever you need is located. You need a shifter knob for a 1943 John Deere tractor? Sure, we got one right over here.

One of my favorites is going internet only, and I hate it. There's a small industrial supply chain called Fastenal, and they will pretty much always have any nut, bolt, screw, file, burr, tap, die...anything. Anything used for cutting, grinding, or fastening, they have it. But I went to my local store yesterday looking for these Mosrite bolts and the lady at the counter said they don't sell to the general public anymore and they're changing over to online only. Fucking fuck. So dumb.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

Post by Greg_L »

Every little tweak I do gets it better and better. Little truss rod adjustments today have yielded a really straight neck. I could go a little further but I'm gonna let it settle. It's playing really nice right now. It's pretty quirky with the tiny neck and frets, but it's going great.
front.jpg

Just realized that in the blitzkrieg of pics I've unloaded on yall, there are none of the back.
back.jpg

And this little detail doesn't really show up in the other pics, but it's got a fair amount of finish checking all over the body. People often fake this stuff, but you can't beat the real thing.
checking.jpg
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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That looks so tidy for a 50 year old guitar.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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JD01 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:34 pm That looks so tidy for a 50 year old guitar.
Yeah it's not bad. I did clean about 45 years of crud off of it though. It's definitely not "mint", but it aint a beater either. I'm pretty amazed by some of it, like the tuners and pots and pickup switch and stuff. That stuff still works perfectly.
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Re: NGD....this time it's serious

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Image

I noticed that a few images ago and thought maybe it was like, light reflecting off something. WOuld i be correct in assuming previous owner was really really diving that wham stick to the boards and just wore the finish away?

WTF is that even ?
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