Drums - how am I doing?

[Tadpui]

Sounds like an improvement to my ears. Nice balance of the levels between the snare and cymbals. I'd like to hear the kick a bit more clearly in the mix...it gets lost a bit. And I'm not sure exactly what to do to fix that, but things I'd check are: 1) is some/all of the low end rolled off the overheads? Excess bass frequencies there can muddy things up, I think. 2) You mentioned boosting a bit of 5k on the kick; have you also tried to cut out any boxiness/muddiness from it as well?

EDIT: overall mix-wise, the drums sound drier than the other instruments; you could stand to send more of the drum bus to your reverb (if that's how you've got it routed)

EDIT 2: is that high, soaring guitar part an e-bow? I like it!

Thanks Dan! I'm not sure what to do about the kick. I gave it a boost to help the beater smack, even cranked it in the mix, and it's still not very present. I think I need to get it waaaaay up in the kick, closer to the batter head and see how that goes. I've got more dampening inside the kick now compared to the last time I tried the mic way inside, so maybe now I'll get less of that bouncing ball sound.

And yeah, that's an ebow! I love that thing, although I don't use it all that often. It's just such a fun toy to pull out every once in a while.

The last example definitely sounds the best.

I have usually copy my snare track and add reverb to that track and have been experimenting with gating it, but it hasnt worked out at all haha.

Kick ass looking room too!

Thanks Liv! I definitely learned the hardships of trying to gate the snare I'll give a try to 'verbing the snare a bit. What type of reverb do you usually use on snare? I've tried a few times but I always end up with something way too obnoxious that just draws attention to itself. I don't think I've found the right reverb yet.

And thanks, my room is coming along. It's just such an upgrade for space over my last room, I'm loving it!

I think that is a huge improvement and you can definitely work with that. Well done. Your tweaks are paying off.

Two little things....the toms seem a little choked to me. They have decent tone, but they kind of sound like they're fighting themselves. This is a minor nitpick, but you're getting far enough along that these little things can start to matter. I think you can fine tune them via the bottom head if you like the way top head feels and rebounds. My tom tuning ears prefer lower pitched toms though, so it could just be all in my head.

The snare is a little splatty. It generally sounds good though, so I think this can be tamed in the DAW with EQ and compression.

Thanks Greg! I welcome all sorts of nitpicks, so I can eventually get drum tracks that I'm proud of. So I appreciate the input.

I agree on the toms. In the room, they "sing" a little more at this pitch. But that seems to translate into too much resonance to the close mics. I think I liked the feel of the top heads at the lower tuning, so I think I'm going to lower them just a bit and see if I can find a compromise. I still royally suck at tuning drums, but I've been getting a lot of practice lately so hopefully I'll see some improvement soon It's like trying to tune a guitar except I can only strum all 6 strings at once and try to tune through the cacophony of dissonance.

Oh, and can you elaborate on the snare sound a bit? Is it too much high frequency, or like too much "snare" sound? I get a little lost in trying to make all of the adjustments for the heads and the snare wires and mic position. It's a lot of variables and I haven't quite got it under control yet.

[Greg_L]

Oh, and can you elaborate on the snare sound a bit? Is it too much high frequency, or like too much "snare" sound? I get a little lost in trying to make all of the adjustments for the heads and the snare wires and mic position. It's a lot of variables and I haven't quite got it under control yet.

I think it's right on the edge of being too fat. Listening again, it really works on a slower, sort of sparse mix like what you created. The body and "splat" of the reso head and snare wires works great when it has space. You're getting just enough attack, you're getting a lot of snare wire action. If you were to make a faster or denser mix, that snare sound might struggle. So I think it's good for this type of thing, but keep in mind you will probably wanna tighten it up for future crazier mixes. You'll want more crack and less splat.

IMO I think once you find the happy spot for the resonant head and snare wires, where they work well together, almost all of the snare tuning can be done with the top head. That's usually how I approach it and I can get a pretty good range of sounds from a snare drum. The real work is getting the right balance between bottom head and wire tension. Once you got that, the top head is easy.

[nicktremblay5]

OK I've gone back and changed a few things:

- retuned the kit. Toms are a little higher, closer to their "natural" pitches for their small size. Snare is a little higher as well.
- repositioned the overheads so they're a little more symmetrical around the kick and snare. And the L overhead is farther from the hihat now.

Different song this time. I recorded this boring dirge today just as an excuse to make noise. Nothing added to the kit except a little 5K boost on the kick and some quick, rough mixing. No compression or gates this time. This is pretty much just straight off the mics and preamps.

Just the drums:

20190620 drums.mp3

And a few guitars and bass added in:

20190620.mp3

Would you like singing in it?


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[JD01]

Tad, I think these sounds a pretty good in the mix.
I like the snare - it sounds quite dry and crunchy.
In comparison the kick sounds quite open without as much thud - I'm pretty rubbish at describing drum sounds though.
Cymbals all sound pretty tidy to me.

[Tadpui]

Tad, I think these sounds a pretty good in the mix.
I like the snare - it sounds quite dry and crunchy.
In comparison the kick sounds quite open without as much thud - I'm pretty rubbish at describing drum sounds though.
Cymbals all sound pretty tidy to me.

Thanks JD, I know what you mean though. I actually tried using a mic outside the kick to blend with the mic inside the kick. I had mixed results, mainly due to poor gain staging (that shit will clip a large diaphragm condenser!). I want to try again though, to get a little more "meat" in the kick.

I'm waiting for your drum kit to end up in your music room. I'm sure that a drum kit plus an infant in the house will be no problem at all. Wifey should be cool with it too, right?

[JD01]

I'm waiting for your drum kit to end up in your music room. I'm sure that a drum kit plus an infant in the house will be no problem at all. Wifey should be cool with it too, right?

It'll never end up in the music room. It's just not a big enough space. Will be either the from room (which we only use in winter) or the attic. Still undicided on whether to get an E Kit first to practice up a bit.

I am really looking forward to micing up some drums now. I've heard some great drum sounds with 4 mics.

[Tadpui]

I've been playing around the past couple of days with some new microphones. I mentioned in the new gear thread that I'd bid on and bought a pair or Cascade Fathead ribbon microphones and a Sennheiser MD421 dynamic. I kind of challenged myself to figure out how to mic the kit with just the 3 new microphones. I chose to use 1 of the ribbons as an overhead, 1 of them outside the kick, and the dynamic on the snare, for a mono drum mix.

This is what I ended up with. This is just the solo'd drum bus, with all of the reverb sends and compression and master bus stuff still active. The actual drumming starts at about 0:40 and again at 1:50.

20190705 Drums.mp3

Here it is in a mix with guitars recorded with a Fathead and bass through an amp miked with the MD421:

20190705-003.mp3

The kick seems nonexistent in the mix, but I'm pushing it really high in Reaper. It's even clipping its channel by about 3 dB, but I still can't really hear it in the mix. I like the tone that the ribbon picked up from outside the kick, but it just disappears in the mix. I even gave it a goose in the 4K range by several dB.

I think that if I were to try again (and I just might), I would use the MD421 on the kick and the 2 Fatheads as stereo overheads in Glyn Johns or Recorderman or some such configuration. But I do like how undeniably retro it turned out.

[JD01]

Up late drinking rum in your studio again, Tad? I'll have a listen a bit later.

[Tadpui]

It'll never end up in the music room. It's just not a big enough space. Will be either the from room (which we only use in winter) or the attic. Still undicided on whether to get an E Kit first to practice up a bit.

I am really looking forward to micing up some drums now. I've heard some great drum sounds with 4 mics.

A e-kit might just be a good option. I used one in my last room for the same reason. There just wasn't enough space to plunk down a real kit plus all of the mic stands and cables. It would have needed to serve double duty as a computer desk

It looks like there are some good kits on the market from Alesis, Behringer, Yamaha and Roland that would all make for nice compact setups. The entry price seems to be coming down a bit. When I was shopping for an e-kit, there was nothing but toys available for less than $500 USD.

Up late drinking rum in your studio again, Tad? I'll have a listen a bit later.

I can neither confirm nor deny any such allegation

[JD01]

It'll never end up in the music room. It's just not a big enough space. Will be either the from room (which we only use in winter) or the attic. Still undicided on whether to get an E Kit first to practice up a bit.

I am really looking forward to micing up some drums now. I've heard some great drum sounds with 4 mics.

A e-kit might just be a good option. I used one in my last room for the same reason. There just wasn't enough space to plunk down a real kit plus all of the mic stands and cables. It would have needed to serve double duty as a computer desk

It looks like there are some good kits on the market from Alesis, Behringer, Yamaha and Roland that would all make for nice compact setups. The entry price seems to be coming down a bit. When I was shopping for an e-kit, there was nothing but toys available for less than $500 USD.

Up late drinking rum in your studio again, Tad? I'll have a listen a bit later.

I can neither confirm nor deny any such allegation

Should be a bit easier for me to save for an ekit now I've got the house extension done. I had the money together before we started the extension but there's always extra things and the ekit money quickly got swallowed!

[Greg_L]

I've been playing around the past couple of days with some new microphones. I mentioned in the new gear thread that I'd bid on and bought a pair or Cascade Fathead ribbon microphones and a Sennheiser MD421 dynamic. I kind of challenged myself to figure out how to mic the kit with just the 3 new microphones. I chose to use 1 of the ribbons as an overhead, 1 of them outside the kick, and the dynamic on the snare, for a mono drum mix.

This is what I ended up with. This is just the solo'd drum bus, with all of the reverb sends and compression and master bus stuff still active. The actual drumming starts at about 0:40 and again at 1:50.

20190705 Drums.mp3

Here it is in a mix with guitars recorded with a Fathead and bass through an amp miked with the MD421:

20190705-003.mp3

The kick seems nonexistent in the mix, but I'm pushing it really high in Reaper. It's even clipping its channel by about 3 dB, but I still can't really hear it in the mix. I like the tone that the ribbon picked up from outside the kick, but it just disappears in the mix. I even gave it a goose in the 4K range by several dB.

I think that if I were to try again (and I just might), I would use the MD421 on the kick and the 2 Fatheads as stereo overheads in Glyn Johns or Recorderman or some such configuration. But I do like how undeniably retro it turned out.

That's really awesome man. I think the kick is buried because really the whole drum submix is buried. The guitars and bass sound great but they're running roughshod all over the mono drums. Bring the bass and drums down to the drums level instead of pushing the kick higher and higher.

I have a cheapo MXL R144. I got some fun vintage-ish mono tracks by putting it by itself about six feet behind me and damn near on the floor - maybe like 6 inches off the ground. I got a lot of kick slap and snare wire snap and it sounded pretty cool. Give it a try.

[SweetDan]

I've been playing around the past couple of days with some new microphones...

I'm excited to hear this, but am traveling for the next few days and have only my phone and no decent headphones.

[Tadpui]

Should be a bit easier for me to save for an ekit now I've got the house extension done. I had the money together before we started the extension but there's always extra things and the ekit money quickly got swallowed!

I know the feeling! We've got a couple of big projects coming up and I'm not looking forward to forfeiting all of that money that could go towards perfectly good gear! Of course, that gear won't keep the basement dry, water the lawn, or add light to the front room so I guess I've gotta spend it on foundation work, an irrigation system, and skylights

That's really awesome man. I think the kick is buried because really the whole drum submix is buried. The guitars and bass sound great but they're running roughshod all over the mono drums. Bring the bass and drums down to the drums level instead of pushing the kick higher and higher.

I have a cheapo MXL R144. I got some fun vintage-ish mono tracks by putting it by itself about six feet behind me and damn near on the floor - maybe like 6 inches off the ground. I got a lot of kick slap and snare wire snap and it sounded pretty cool. Give it a try.

Thanks man! Yeah the more I listen to this mix, the more I realize how buried the drums are. The bass was the first thing I made up and tracked, and the whole mix is built on top of it. So it ended up remaining really loud in the mix.

Thanks for the tip on the placement for the ribbon. That one sounds interesting, so I'll give it a try!

I'm excited to hear this, but am traveling for the next few days and have only my phone and no decent headphones.

No worries! Judging by where I'm at in my drum tracking skills, the phone might not be much of a detriment to the sound quality

[WhiskeyJack]

I don't think my ear buds are doing this any justice at work. I'l have ot go hide in my hideaway this evening and have a go at it. Where did you bid on these mics [mention]Tadpui[/mention] ? Ebay or somewhere else.

[WhiskeyJack]

Dude i really like what ya got going on here man. It has huge character. I like this a fair bit more than the the OP. I get the vibe of the two jams is a bit different and all, but i wager that what you have going on here can translate over to just about anything with a few tweaks to set up and of course the mix down magic and polish. I agree with you re: the kick. I hear this and i want a burrito and a corona.

That bass is smooooth too man. nice mix down of that.

[Tadpui]

Dude i really like what ya got going on here man. It has huge character. I like this a fair bit more than the the OP. I get the vibe of the two jams is a bit different and all, but i wager that what you have going on here can translate over to just about anything with a few tweaks to set up and of course the mix down magic and polish. I agree with you re: the kick. I hear this and i want a burrito and a corona.

That bass is smooooth too man. nice mix down of that.

Thanks WJ! I really appreciate it. Funny you should mention the burrito and Corona because I wrote and recorded this after a couple of mango margaritas at our local Mexican restaurant

The bass is my P-Bass into a little Ampeg practice amp, miked by the MD421 and run through one of the Distressors on the way into the interface. I do have to admit that I like the way that it turned out, even though it clipped at one point and it's way too loud in the mix. I'll know to be more careful next time, but I was on a roll that day

Oh and the mics were listed on Reverb.com. I put in a reasonable offer on both of them and ended up having them accepted. I didn't really plan on spending that much on microphones that day (thinking that at least one of the two offers would be declined) but hey I feel like I got a pretty good deal in the end!

[Greg_L]

Thanks WJ! I really appreciate it. Funny you should mention the burrito and Corona because I wrote and recorded this after a couple of mango margaritas at our local Mexican restaurant

The bass is my P-Bass into a little Ampeg practice amp, miked by the MD421 and run through one of the Distressors on the way into the interface. I do have to admit that I like the way that it turned out, even though it clipped at one point and it's way too loud in the mix. I'll know to be more careful next time, but I was on a roll that day

Oh and the mics were listed on Reverb.com. I put in a reasonable offer on both of them and ended up having them accepted. I didn't really plan on spending that much on microphones that day (thinking that at least one of the two offers would be declined) but hey I feel like I got a pretty good deal in the end!

Yeah the bass sounds awesome for sure. It really stood out to me - it's fat and round but really clear. Sounds killer.

[WhiskeyJack]

The bass is my P-Bass into a little Ampeg practice amp, miked by the MD421 and run through one of the Distressors on the way into the interface. I do have to admit that I like the way that it turned out, even though it clipped at one point and it's way too loud in the mix. I'll know to be more careful next time, but I was on a roll that day

That is impressive. What model practice amp? it's not that cute little tiny mini stack looking thing i see pop up from time to time. That turned out really good man. Inspiring. What's the deal with the distressor? I am guessing it is a piece of outboard equipment you have in your set up?

Man i have to apologize for some reason my subscription notifications haven't been notifying me of ANY of your new vids. I was feeling pretty miserable that i hadn't seen anything new from you for a long long time but when i went on yesterday i saw you do have a few new ones up. I'll check them out today!!!

[SweetDan]

[mention]Tadpui[/mention] - nice drumming!

My first listen through the drum bus clip I though the snare sounded a touch phasey or something, but it fits into the mix pretty well. I agree that the drums are too low in the full mix.

[Tadpui]

Yeah the bass sounds awesome for sure. It really stood out to me - it's fat and round but really clear. Sounds killer.

Thanks man! I'll keep using this setup for the time being, as I'm pretty happy with the results as well!

That is impressive. What model practice amp? it's not that cute little tiny mini stack looking thing i see pop up from time to time. That turned out really good man. Inspiring. What's the deal with the distressor? I am guessing it is a piece of outboard equipment you have in your set up?

Man i have to apologize for some reason my subscription notifications haven't been notifying me of ANY of your new vids. I was feeling pretty miserable that i hadn't seen anything new from you for a long long time but when i went on yesterday i saw you do have a few new ones up. I'll check them out today!!!

Thanks WJ! I believe my amp is the Ampeg BA-110? I think? It's a 30W 1x10 combo. Pretty little tiny thing, but I'm pretty amazed at how big it can sound. I just can't turn it up very far without it rattling so bad that it sounds like it's going to shake itself to pieces.

And a Distressor is just a compressor. It's made by Empirical Labs, and it came to fame in the 1990s. At some point I realized that just about every record I liked from the early-mid 2000s had Distressors all over them, so I became infatuated with them and eventually bought a couple used off of Reverb. When it comes down to it, they're just regular old compressors. But they're versatile and have some cool features and their own distinctive sound. I like them quite a bit.

I'm not sure what's going on with YouTube notifications. They've screwed with the system so much over the years that they seem to break it anew every month. I've heard lots of people complain that some channels seem to drop off of their notifications for no reason. Some people even get unsubscribed without their knowledge! Thanks for watching man I haven't really posted anything interesting lately, mostly just jabbering about the room and making excuses to record little tidbits for time lapses

[mention]Tadpui[/mention] - nice drumming!

My first listen through the drum bus clip I though the snare sounded a touch phasey or something, but it fits into the mix pretty well. I agree that the drums are too low in the full mix.

Thanks Dan! You know, one thing that I haven't been paying much attention to is phase coherency between the mics. I briefly tried on that first clip that I posted, but I quickly lost interest. Next time I set up the mics and kit, I'll dedicate some time to investigating the phase of everything because I know it's important.