BIAB SongS - A place to demonstrate the good and the bad of BIAB

[rayc]

This version might work a little better. It has a vocal and a little more tinkering. All but the vocal is BIAB -bass, drums, guitar, organ, horn section, baritone sax, humming and ahhs...I'm not fussed on making it decent as it's just a learning/demo model...

FTMSoulbvoxgd.mp3

[vomitHatSteve]

I'm not spotting the editing clicks on a precursory listen this time.

[rayc]

Thanks vHS,
I was more careful and removed the VST that often causes them (Blockfish - it sounds great but can't handle sudden edits).

[WhiskeyJack]

This version might work a little better. It has a vocal and a little more tinkering. All but the vocal is BIAB -bass, drums, guitar, organ, horn section, baritone sax, humming and ahhs...I'm not fussed on making it decent as it's just a learning/demo model...
FTMSoulbvoxgd.mp3

Interesting Ray. For a songwriter, and by song writer I mean primarily someone who dreams up lyrics and vocal melodies i think this BiaB thing is probably a gift from the modern tech gods. It's good for them. Saves them from trying to reach out to musicians in their community or online to try and put something together for them. In that respect it is pretty cool. I do find it feels flat and a little one dimensional from a musical tonal sort of listening point of view. Some items work better than the others. I really liked the bass, i didn't love that one horn at the beginning. Drums are whatever. i wouldn't say they are any better or worse than EZD or Steven Slate really. Here is hoping they continue developing this software to be a bit more versatile. I think like anything the tone will come. I'd look over at amplitube as a good example of where it could potentially go tonally. I remember getting an issue of some magazine geared towards PC recording that came with the very frst demo version of Amplitube Ver1.0 and loading it up and having a go at it. It was a resource hog that should have sounded MUCH better than it did for how much CPU / RAM it needed to do it's thing. Now look at how far they have come! Pretty damn convincing guitar tones coming out of it.

Keep showing us how this software grows. Sort of interested to see more of the string features.

Cool tune too.

[rayc]

Shan,
it does often sound lifeless - the ones that get the best sounding results on their forum add guitar, keyboards etc of their own so that their work leans away from the corporate sound.
yes, I songwriting tool, as I've demonstrated previously, is what it's best at.
The strings - thus far - are a disappointment whereas the simpler fiddle, violin etc are OK as single parts. The only string that stands well is the cello.
I'll experiment with some soon.

[rayc]

In 78 a friend and I wrote a song but had a subsequent falling out and didn't see each other or communicate for 30 years. We're writing and recording together again and decided to revisit the old song, (completely forgotten about and found with a couple of others from the same period on a lecture note pad).
he plays guitar and sings a little and you know my limitations - we decided to assemble a draft/demo of the song in BIAB as it'll provide a way for us to work on it , (he lives a thousand or so kms away in Queensland), so sketched it out and discussed ideas.
One idea was a little bit of Evensecence style goth metal in case we ever find a singer capable of it and so we could explore different aspects of the program.
The net result is a good example of the value of BIAB in that it is a very cool writing/structuring tool but also it's problem in that it sounds soooo generic as to be bland. I know many users love that aspect of it and I know a couple of people who can bust free of that limitation by using unexpected elements. It take the human element - voice and, as much as possible, instruments,to break free.
The point of the exercise is this track below. It is built on "RealTracks" - no midi or synths - performed by very good players fairly well recorded BUT...

TACITBgd.mp3

[CeeBee]

At the Top of the Stair would sound great with a Tom Waits or Leonard Cohen voice type.
I like your lyrics on most of these songs, that is a gift I wish I had.

[rayc]

I did some more work on File The Memories (Soul) - swapped a guitar, changed the horn section and, I think, did a better job of the vocals, (it was recorded with a disparate pair of mics that I blended together - in the original track Misha had used the mics unblended and panned about 20 L & R), so that it seems to sit better.
BIAB provided a horn section (two sections for the outro), a Hammond Organ, drums, bass, soul style guitar, wha wah rhythm guitar, guitar solo & sax solo and the backing vocals.
Misha did the vocals and structure programming while I just made choices from the available/compatible styles & instruments for my variant.

FTMSoul0808gd.mp3

[WhiskeyJack]

[mention]rayc[/mention] ......
Why is there such a huge change in sounds and textures in the last two song clips you posted? Are they both band in a box jams? they just sound soooo different ?

[rayc]

@rayc ......
Why is there such a huge change in sounds and textures in the last two song clips you posted? Are they both band in a box jams? they just sound soooo different ?

Bummer the @ tag isn't co-operating.
Yep Shan @WhiskeyJack , both exclusively BIAB except for the vocal.
The difference is partially the vocal - the human, unpredictable element and the amount of time searching for sounds that weren't too generic to start with PLUS the most recent is the result of listening, thinking and changing over time whereas the previous was a shorter search and too many tracks lumped in. there's also a tendency for the rock elements of BIAB to be the more generic - well, along with country - particularly when most here have spent time getting THE sound that's right for the song but the BIAB distorted guitars etc tend to be easily identified as such.
One of the big pluses with BIAB is that when one pushed the PLAY button, as opposed to the replay one, the parts will regenerate and be slightly different. Using that, rather time consuming, method means I could export 1/2 a dozen variations on a guitar solo - each with the same tone/timbre etc. - and comp them together for a good one. The horns are comped from two versions and the backing vocals are the best bits copied & pasted.
It needs work and time to get away from the generic "good enough for my county song" sound.

[rayc]

At the Top of the Stair would sound great with a Tom Waits or Leonard Cohen voice type.
I like your lyrics on most of these songs, that is a gift I wish I had.

[mention]CeeBee[/mention]
My very 1st thoughts were for an innocent female vocal. Then, when a fem vocal wasn't forthcoming, I thought of a male but it's be an uphill battle with the narrative about a man killing his wife etc. It seems that the opposite is a little more palatable. In the end the chap who wrote the music found some to sing - though is a bluesy and poorly emoted way that is at odds with the song's theme. C'est la guerre!
I LOVE Laughing Lenny - luckily I managed to see him on his final tour.
Tom Waits - hmm I LOVE Heart Attack & Vine but find him a little fake or mannered on the otehr albums I have.

[WhiskeyJack]

@rayc ......
Why is there such a huge change in sounds and textures in the last two song clips you posted? Are they both band in a box jams? they just sound soooo different ?

Bummer the @ tag isn't co-operating.
Yep Shan @WhiskeyJack , both exclusively BIAB except for the vocal.
The difference is partially the vocal - the human, unpredictable element and the amount of time searching for sounds that weren't too generic to start with PLUS the most recent is the result of listening, thinking and changing over time whereas the previous was a shorter search and too many tracks lumped in. there's also a tendency for the rock elements of BIAB to be the more generic - well, along with country - particularly when most here have spent time getting THE sound that's right for the song but the BIAB distorted guitars etc tend to be easily identified as such.
One of the big pluses with BIAB is that when one pushed the PLAY button, as opposed to the replay one, the parts will regenerate and be slightly different. Using that, rather time consuming, method means I could export 1/2 a dozen variations on a guitar solo - each with the same tone/timbre etc. - and comp them together for a good one. The horns are comped from two versions and the backing vocals are the best bits copied & pasted.
It needs work and time to get away from the generic "good enough for my county song" sound.

Seems like a lot of fucking around, but to be fair if it isn't spending days moving mics around a room to capture the full tone of a big cab or Piano or spending days fighting with software I don't know what difference would be really. Keep this stuff coming ray i find it super interesting to see what you turkeys are up to in that world.

[rayc]

[mention]Lt. Bob[/mention] , [mention]CeeBee[/mention] & [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention],
this little video is cool for me as it's been a pain importing drums and organ from BIAB into Reaper and making changes when I'm not fussed on the result.
The MULTIRIFF feature is really cool in that it'll generate SEVEN solos for the same section so that CUT'N'PASTE will allow the creation of something decent for those tracks I can't attract one of you folk for...
There are videos for most DAWs on the site as well as the same for the MAC version as far as I can tell. To be REALLY honestthe thing I like most about this new VST is that it'll run the chord sheet in Reaper as it play so I can follow that when tracking - I've told you folk about my bad habit of needing a chart.
Well, this is the vid for BIAB as a plug in for Reaper:
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... dmfRXp2CSA[/BBvideo]

[CeeBee]

I haven't upgraded to BiaB2019 as I didn't see the ROI, as I don't use it that much anyway. The multiriff function is in Realband IIRC. When I use the program I usually just use Realband until I get something worth saving, and then drag it into my daw. I remember there were loads of comlaints early on with the VST because it doesn't sync with your DAW, if you change something in your DAW it doesn't change in the VST, or vice versa.
One thingI noticed is that when you start chopping up the tracks you can get artifacts etc. The only cute function is the chord chart, but I can get that if I stay in Realband to lay down a track. i haven't used BiaB for composing, only to add a track or two to an existing song like the cello in 2 Angels.

2 Angels.mp3

[Lt. Bob]

liking this stuff

[CeeBee]

This song started life when I borrowed a Telecaster from my neighbour. It just came out as a country ballad in about an hour, inspired by the country icon the Tele. This version has been updated with some Realtracks from PG-Music's Band in a Box/Realband.
Country music seems to be a core genre in Band in a Box.

Let me know remake.mp3

[vomitHatSteve]

What's going on with your noise floor starting around 0:05? It seems to fade in all of a sudden.

[CeeBee]

I don't hear anything, but at about 0,05 is where the BiaB backing is ramped up.

[rayc]

I hear the brush around then.
My trad. brain is confused by the brushed snare over to the right.
What instruments are in the mix [mention]CeeBee[/mention] ?
I hear drums, but they are oddly panned, pedal steel, an acoustic, bass (is that a little left leaning too?), lead guitar (Tele?).
What's you & what's BIAB?
COOL country song for certain.
Good vocal for the song too.
A little essing to control and possibly sorting out that noise floor if it's there.

[rayc]

I haven't upgraded to BiaB2019 as I didn't see the ROI, as I don't use it that much anyway. The multiriff function is in Realband IIRC. When I use the program I usually just use Realband until I get something worth saving, and then drag it into my daw. I remember there were loads of comlaints early on with the VST because it doesn't sync with your DAW, if you change something in your DAW it doesn't change in the VST, or vice versa.
One thingI noticed is that when you start chopping up the tracks you can get artifacts etc. The only cute function is the chord chart, but I can get that if I stay in Realband to lay down a track. i haven't used BiaB for composing, only to add a track or two to an existing song like the cello in 2 Angels.2 Angels.mp3

That's pretty cool CeeBee, the 'cellos fit very nicely - I assume the rest is you - and good you too.
Shades a Pacabell's Canon - cellos do that easily & the progression is almost ubiquitous and hard to avoid.
There does seem to be a rough edit in the cello at one point but you can treat that with a bit of delay or a cut & paste.