Guitar cab mic shootout

[Greg_L]

I thought about putting this in the tone thread, but it's more about mics, so in here it shall go. I haven't done one of these in a long time.

So what we got going on here is a DI'd guitar track that's been reamped five times through the same amp on the same settings to the same cab through the same speakers into different mics, but placed in the same exact spot (marked with tape on the speaker grill cloth). So the only variables are the mics. Everything else is exactly the same. These are my five most often used cab mics. These are single mic tracks. Normally I'd use them in combinations. They are in phase, so you can download and combine them if you want.

See which one you like best....if any. I will reveal the mics later.

Mic A.mp3

Mic B.mp3

Mic C.mp3

[Greg_L]

Mic D.mp3

Mic E.mp3

[Minerman]

Personally, I like 'em almost in the order you have 'em, as far as single mic tracks...Mic "B" sounds best to me, with "A" 2nd, then "C", "D", & "E"...

I didn't download 'em (yet), I'm gonna wait until you tell us what they are, so I can label 'em accordingly, for my "Greg Clip" folder...

Just guessing, here's what mics I think they are, & my reason for guessing:

"A": i5 (similar to a '57, slightly different top end)
"B": '57 (similar to an i5, slightly different top end)
"C": 609 or 906 (similar to i5/'57, but the lows/mids are a bit "hollow" from my experience with my 609)
"D": AKG ribbon (just a guess, never used one...yet...but it's a bit warmer IMO)
"E": 421 (another guess, but the pronounced lows & rolled-off top end)

Of course, I expect to be completely wrong with all these, as usual...

[JD01]

Great thread idea.

B and C are pretty similar. Like them both.
A isn't too different either, but I find that one a bit harsher and reckon its probably the 57.
D is my favourite. Has that slightly scoopy sound I like so I'll take a punt on that being an i5.
Don't like E, its well dark in comparison.

[rayc]

E was MUDDEE
A & B are toss ups for my pref but I do like bright stuff & D has a lot of that but it sounds a bit "metal".

[Lt. Bob]

I like D best but this is solo'd and D is a fuller sound that sounds good by itself.
Might not cut thru a mix very well.

But solo'd 'D' sounds best to my ears

[SweetDan]

For clean tones, D or C are my faves, and would go with D if I needed more thickness and C if I needed more thinness. For distorted tones, I prefer B.

No idea on which clip is which mic, other than to guess that E is the ribbon mic.

[Tadpui]

I like A and D the best. E just flat-out sounds muffled. B and C sound a little off to me, kind of hollow or something. Maybe there's some comb filtering going on or something?

[JD01]

I like A and D the best. E just flat-out sounds muffled. B and C sound a little off to me, kind of hollow or something. Maybe there's some comb filtering going on or something?

I thought comb filtering was a monitoring environment problem, not something that you'd get with close mic placement? Is that right?

[Greg_L]

I thought comb filtering was a monitoring environment problem, not something that you'd get with close mic placement? Is that right?

Comb filtering is possible with any miking scenario. If you're putting a mic on a sound, you can get comb filtering. Although IMO it's very very unlikely I'm getting any significant comb filtering with cardioid mics very close to the sound source. The things working in my favor are:
1) My room is pretty dead
2) I'm close miking the top speaker of a 4x12.
3) Volume is loud and mic gain is low
4) All of the mics are in the same spot and preamp gain was unchanged

Having said that, it is always a possibility. I don't hear it that way though. Comb filtering is a fight I'm always having with drum overheads in my room. I know the sound.

[Greg_L]

Anyway, some of you guessed correctly on some of them. Nice work. Here's the reveal:

Mic A - SM57
Mic B - Audix i5
Mic C - Senn e609
Mic D - Senn MD421
Mic E - MXL R144 Ribbon

The guitar is a Les Paul Custom. The first cleanish bit is the neck pickup rolled back, the gainy part is the bridge pickup full power
The amp is a 100w Plexi just short of full cranked
The cab and speakers are a Marshall 4x12 and Greenbacks
The mics are listed above

[JD01]

I thought comb filtering was a monitoring environment problem, not something that you'd get with close mic placement? Is that right?

Comb filtering is possible with any miking scenario. If you're putting a mic on a sound, you can get comb filtering. Although IMO it's very very unlikely I'm getting any significant comb filtering with cardioid mics very close to the sound source. The things working in my favor are:
1) My room is pretty dead
2) I'm close miking the top speaker of a 4x12.
3) Volume is loud and mic gain is low
4) All of the mics are in the same spot and preamp gain was unchanged

Having said that, it is always a possibility. I don't hear it that way though. Comb filtering is a fight I'm always having with drum overheads in my room. I know the sound.

Cheers, I'm not sure that its something I'd recognise easily as I don't know what it sounds like. I think its really unlikely that I'm getting it when recording, as my room is really dead and I close mic the cab with an i5.

Could well be getting it when mixing though.

[JD01]

Anyway, some of you guessed correctly on some of them. Nice work. Here's the reveal:

Mic A - SM57
Mic B - Audix i5
Mic C - Senn e609
Mic D - Senn MD421
Mic E - MXL R144 Ribbon

The guitar is a Les Paul Custom. The first cleanish bit is the neck pickup rolled back, the gainy part is the bridge pickup full power
The amp is a 100w Plexi just short of full cranked
The cab and speakers are a Marshall 4x12 and Greenbacks
The mics are listed above

Cheers, mate.

I was pretty certain on the 57, I was just looking for something scoopy for the i5. I like the sound of that MD421.

The ribbon sounds like its just not designed for the job you gave it there!

[Greg_L]

Cheers, mate.

I was pretty certain on the 57, I was just looking for something scoopy for the i5. I like the sound of that MD421.

The ribbon sounds like its just not designed for the job you gave it there!

The Ribbon is a figure-8. It picks up from the front and the back. They generally are not very well suited for loud close miking a cab on their own, but blend it in under a dynamic mic and it really adds some beef to the sound if you want it.

If you want room sound combined with the source from a single mic, a ribbon is a great way to go. They're very good for acoustics or drum overheads or hand percussion or upright bass and even vocals sometimes. They have many good uses. The Royer R121 is pretty much the standard ribbon mic for cab recording. I aint spending a thousand bucks on one of those.

[Greg_L]

Cheers, I'm not sure that its something I'd recognise easily as I don't know what it sounds like. I think its really unlikely that I'm getting it when recording, as my room is really dead and I close mic the cab with an i5.

Could well be getting it when mixing though.

Your room is so small that you could be in danger of comb filtering when tracking. Being dead is one (good) thing, but a small boxy room is a recipe for comb filtering. What you have in your favor IMO is you are indeed close miking with a very directional mic and you're probably not tracking loud enough to get the whole room vibrating anyway. And in my experience it's not that big of a problem with cab miking regardless of the room. It can be a problem in lots of other areas though. Like I said, I fight it myself. But not with cab miking.

Basically, with home recording you can have a room that's good for mixing, or good for tracking. Very rarely will you have one room that's good for both. And you can easily have a room that's bad for both.

[JD01]

Cheers, I'm not sure that its something I'd recognise easily as I don't know what it sounds like. I think its really unlikely that I'm getting it when recording, as my room is really dead and I close mic the cab with an i5.

Could well be getting it when mixing though.

Your room is so small that you could be in danger of comb filtering when tracking. Being dead is one (good) thing, but a small boxy room is a recipe for comb filtering. What you have in your favor IMO is you are indeed close miking with a very directional mic and you're probably not tracking loud enough to get the whole room vibrating anyway. And in my experience it's not that big of a problem with cab miking regardless of the room. It can be a problem in lots of other areas though. Like I said, I fight it myself. But not with cab miking.

Basically, with home recording you can have a room that's good for mixing, or good for tracking. Very rarely will you have one room that's good for both. And you can easily have a room that's bad for both.

I have noticed and improvement in tone since I've started recording in this room - the other room just had so many hard surfaces, wood block floor, bare walls, just one sofa. The main improvement I've noticed since moving upstairs is recording vocals though, but its true for guitars too - things don't have that room reflection darkness in the background all the time.

You're right though - I'm not loud enough to shake the paint off the walls.

I just looked up MD421 mics! Expensive! Think I can do without one of them for a while.

Really interesting thread this though - I actually spent quite a long time on Friday listening to all of the clips on both my monitors and reference cans. Trying to actually think about what I was hearing, as opposed to just like it/don't like it. I actually liked them all except the ribbon.

[Greg_L]

I have noticed and improvement in tone since I've started recording in this room - the other room just had so many hard surfaces, wood block floor, bare walls, just one sofa. The main improvement I've noticed since moving upstairs is recording vocals though, but its true for guitars too - things don't have that room reflection darkness in the background all the time.

Yeah but how much H&K 2x12 recording did you do in the other spot? And how much Blackstar combo have you recorded in the new spot?

Just the amp and cab alone was enough to improve your sound. The room wasn't why the Blackstar sounded like ass. They sound like ass anywhere.

[JD01]

I have noticed and improvement in tone since I've started recording in this room - the other room just had so many hard surfaces, wood block floor, bare walls, just one sofa. The main improvement I've noticed since moving upstairs is recording vocals though, but its true for guitars too - things don't have that room reflection darkness in the background all the time.

Yeah but how much H&K 2x12 recording did you do in the other spot? And how much Blackstar combo have you recorded in the new spot?

Just the amp and cab alone was enough to improve your sound. The room wasn't why the Blackstar sounded like ass. They sound like ass anywhere.

Yeah - I upgraded gradually. First the cab, then I got the H&K. Then I moved upstairs to the new room. I also learned loads about mic choice and mic placement in that time anyway so its a combination of a fair few different factors. I'm very glad I held out for the H&K and didn't get the MKII Blackstar, even though they are a big improvement over my old one.

I can definitely tell the difference between downstairs recorded tracks and upstairs recorded stuff - I was listening to a H&K track that was done downstairs and it just sounds messy and garagey (you know what I mean - that bad echoey room sound). I'll re-track it soon 'cos its a really fun song to play and I'd like to get it sounding good. Some of this could just be down to me improving my mic technique generally though, although I don't think I've changed things greatly since I moved rooms - I think I'd already started recording with a single i5 instead of mic blends (sometimes including a condenser! That was a blind alley, but you live and learn, never know unless you try)

[WhiskeyJack]

Coll thread Greg. I voted but didn't scroll down to see what was what until i listened fairly. Really like that Audix mic.

[Minerman]

Totally missed the results of this...I had a couple of 'em right, I think because I have the same mics & know their differences...