Pending NCD (new cymbal day)

[SweetDan]

Meinl Classics Custom 16" crash...over the weekend I won an auction on fleabay. Looks like it will be shipped out today, and could arrive by early next week. Can't wait! A few months ago all the cymbals I had were complete trash. I've been slowly upgrading; first a better ride, then better hats, and now a better crash. Yay!

[Greg_L]

Meinl Classics Custom 16" crash...over the weekend I won an auction on fleabay. Looks like it will be shipped out today, and could arrive by early next week. Can't wait! A few months ago all the cymbals I had were complete trash. I've been slowly upgrading; first a better ride, then better hats, and now a better crash. Yay!

[SweetDan]

Almost here; should be at my house tomorrow... (Commerce City, CO is the major UPS hub 'round these parts)

[WhiskeyJack]

Almost here; should be at my house tomorrow... (Commerce City, CO is the major UPS hub 'round these parts)

[Tadpui]

And now the hardest part: out for delivery. You'd better go check and see if it's on your porch! Nothing yet? Better check again just in case

[SweetDan]

And now the hardest part: out for delivery. You'd better go check and see if it's on your porch! Nothing yet? Better check again just in case

It's here...BOOM!

Screen Shot 2018-08-24 at 1.00.12 PM.png

Now we're on to the next hardest part: trying to stay focused at work the rest of the day until I can really play it. (I "cheated" a little bit and already put it on the kit and played a few minutes...one perk of working from home. The biggest perk is no commute, the next is that I determine the quality/quantity of snacks in the fridge...but I digress.)

And of course hard to stand the suspense until I get the mics set up to see how this thing records.

[SweetDan]

Old:

20180602_drums.mp3

New:

20180602_remake_20180824_drums.mp3

[SweetDan]

I have to admit (edit: spelling!) it doesn't sound like I thought it would.



[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLevn2RS0to[/BBvideo]

I thought it would be more like that.

Obvious differences, though:
- that guy's playing much harder than I play (I may have mentioned before I'm not a drummer...I'm still not)
- looks like he's hitting the edge of the cymbal with the shaft of the drumstick; I hit mid-cymbal with the tip
- I have a 2-input interface and 3 mics to choose from; many more mics on the kit in the video
- I'm playing in my room, that video was made in a studio

The crash, when I play it, has quite a long decay; I was expecting shorter. And it's lower pitched than I thought it would be. It seems like it sounds better (in the room) when I play it louder, but I obviously didn't do that all the time in the recordings.

But maybe I'll get used to it. And as far as cymbals go, I got it for pretty cheap (under $100 USD, used, off an ebay auction).

[SweetDan]

Oh, one other thing, since I'm not sure how it would affect the sound. I just took the cymbal off the stand to look it over closely (I obviously didn't look closely enough when I opened the box), and noticed 2 small (about 1/8"-1/4" long) hairline cracks in the hole in the bell. There's no keyholing. Though it's obviously used, the rest of the cymbal has no cracks or flea bites.

Would those hairline cracks make it sound significantly different?

[Greg_L]

- looks like he's hitting the edge of the cymbal with the shaft of the drumstick;

That's how you hit a crash cymbal. Shoulder of the drumstick, quick downward sweeping motion across the body of the cymbal.

I hit mid-cymbal with the tip

That's fine for a ride cymbal, but totally wrong for a crash.

[Greg_L]

Oh, one other thing, since I'm not sure how it would affect the sound. I just took the cymbal off the stand to look it over closely (I obviously didn't look closely enough when I opened the box), and noticed 2 small (about 1/8"-1/4" long) hairline cracks in the hole in the bell. There's no keyholing. Though it's obviously used, the rest of the cymbal has no cracks or flea bites.

Would those hairline cracks make it sound significantly different?

Cracks are not good. Return it if you can.

Tiny cracks around the mounting hole won't affect the sound, but they will spread, and that will affect everything. Once a cymbal is cracked, it's pretty much done. You might be able to limp it along for a little while, but it's days are numbered.

[SweetDan]

- looks like he's hitting the edge of the cymbal with the shaft of the drumstick;

That's how you hit a crash cymbal. Shoulder of the drumstick, quick downward sweeping motion across the body of the cymbal.

I hit mid-cymbal with the tip

That's fine for a ride cymbal, but totally wrong for a crash.

Cool; "doing it wrong" I can deal with. I'll try to do it right, and maybe make another recording later today or this weekend.

Regarding the cracks, I'll have to check the listing, see if the seller disclosed them, check his/her return policy, etc. It may be water under the bridge, but luckily wasn't too expensive (and maybe the lesson learned is, aside from correct crash technique, I should never buy a cymbal without first playing it).

[Greg_L]

Cool; "doing it wrong" I can deal with. I'll try to do it right, and maybe make another recording later today or this weekend.

Regarding the cracks, I'll have to check the listing, see if the seller disclosed them, check his/her return policy, etc. It may be water under the bridge, but luckily wasn't too expensive (and maybe the lesson learned is, aside from correct crash technique, I should never buy a cymbal without first playing it).

Well buying used cymbals is totally fine. The only catch is you really need to inspect them first.

[liv_rong]

I like the sound of my cracked K’s. I still use them as secondary cymbals/rehearsal cymbals. They sound trashy and have some sizzle to them.

[SweetDan]

OK; here's a recording where I (attempted to) hit the new (/used, but new to me) crash cymbal properly...and bits and pieces of the older one, and the newer one, but where I hit it wrong. (I probably hit the old crash wrong too.)

oldCrash_probablyDidItWrong.mp3

newCrash_doingItWrong.mp3

newCrash_doingItNotWrong.mp3

I still think it sounds nothing like the product video (linked up thread), and I still think I'd like a shorter decay, but it at least it sounds like a crash.

[SweetDan]

...and some mixes (I re-tracked the guitars on the "new crash" clips, but went all DI + virtual amps, so not great...but ignore that, the point of this exercise is to hear if the new crash cymbal is going to work)

mix_oldCrash_probablyDidItWrong.mp3

mix_newCrash_doingItWrong.mp3

mix_newCrash_doingItNotWrong.mp3

[liv_rong]

In your "doingitnotwrong" clip it sounds like that because you are not hitting it with any authority. Im not talking about full force bashing but you gotta lay into your strokes with some authority, everything actually kind of sounds like that. Im not knit picking your playing but it sounds to me that is why you probably arent hearing what you want. Listen to jazz drummers, on records it sounds like light playing but watch them live and you see they are actually pretty loud and striking with authority.

There is a lot of variables that goes into striking a cymbal and how it will sound, it is a very nuanced thing, and over time(unless you plan on bashing) you'll learn to use this to your advantage. Also, a cymbal is never going to sound anything like another one you heard a demo of. You really gotta try them out before you buy if you want something special to you.

[Greg_L]

Yes now it sounds like a crash.

I agree with liverlips on everything...and you gotta hit the drums, man. You can't hurt them. Don't bash the shit out of cymbals, but you can whack em pretty good with good technique. Drums...you can lay right into those things.

[SweetDan]

Another go. Tweaked mic positions slightly too, moved OH (SM57) from directly over the snare, 2 stick lengths away, to right in front of my forehead and pointed at the "V" shape created by the edges/outlines of the snare and the kick. (Different, simpler beat too...the one I played before is really above my limit; y'all know I'm not a drummer, right? lol)

newCrash_foreOverhead.mp3

EDIT: an older recording that does have the trashy old crash, and with much different mic positions, is here: http://eastofcleveland.com/music/diy_ma ... EqVerb.mp3

EDIT2: Bonus! I forgot that the older recording *also* had the trashy old hats...listening back, they're horrible! lol lol lol

[SweetDan]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, so many variables and nuances to give different "colors" (for lack of a better word) to the sound. I'm picking it up bit by bit, especially with suggestions like yours. (Nice graphic, Greg)