More Muttpups for Gerg!

[Greg_L]

Got these in the mail a few weeks ago.








And they will go in this.....



That is my trusty Goldtop Traditional that is perfect in every way. It's my #1 guitar. I love the pickups in it - Burstbucker 3 bridge and 57 Classic neck. But if I'm gonna jockey with it, there's only one dude that I'd let wind me some new pups for it. So Mutt got with me and we brainstormed some buckers for my style.

I'll let Mutt get deep into the specifics if he wants to, but I'll tell you that they're AlNiCo2, scatter wound PAF-style with nickel covers. The hidden trick is they're splittable and he made them for me with cream bobbins in case I want to remove the covers. I love the look of a traditional 57 Goldtop Les Paul, so I wanted covered pickups. But the option is there to go naked coils if I want.

The bridge measures at 8.58k which is right around where my BB3 measures
The neck measures 7.79k which should be just about a perfect match for the two pickups


I'd also like to add that Mutt made these for me and got them to me very quickly. I've been sitting on them for a few weeks because of the amp project and vacation and all that shit. So my apologies to Mutt for not getting to this sooner, but it's time now.

I might need to get one new pot. The neck pot is kind of scratchy, but I'll try to clean it up and I'll have these installed over the next few days. Stay tuned.

[Minerman]

Awesome Greg, I still cannot get over the fact that my cheap-ass strat sounds so good after putting Mutt's P'ups in it...It's a whole different instrument now...

I know I've asked this since we were at HR, & all you guys have told me how countless times, but I've never fooled with taking the covers off a p'up...If you decide to do that, throw up a little pic-tutorial for me dude...I'm not touching my SG, but I might consider doing that to my LP...maybe...

[Greg_L]

Awesome Greg, I still cannot get over the fact that my cheap-ass strat sounds so good after putting Mutt's P'ups in it...It's a whole different instrument now...

I know I've asked this since we were at HR, & all you guys have told me how countless times, but I've never fooled with taking the covers off a p'up...If you decide to do that, throw up a little pic-tutorial for me dude...I'm not touching my SG, but I might consider doing that to my LP...maybe...

It's easy dude. They're usually soldered to the baseplate so you'll have to melt and wick away that solder. Then you may need to heat the top a little to soften any wax that might be in there. While it's warm, pop it off. Clean the wax and bam, uncovered pickup.

[muttley]

Excellent. Looking forward to what you can do with them..

I'll come clean and let you all know that as gerg has been such a good tester for the pups and helped me out with a lot of tones etc (more than he posts up) I did a deal with him. I offered to show my appreciation by spinning up a pup of his choice as a prize for the G90 winning design which I have sold a lot of. He suggested a PAF style for the GT LP and then said fuck it make two and he would stand me for the rest so here we are... I'm reall looking forward to hearing how they compare to the pups he has in there. My guess based on the design and spec we came up with is that they will be a touch smoother but with quite a bit more clarity and separation. They should also allow gerg to push them pretty hard without them going all buckermush on him. Thats how I approached it anyway... We shall see. I also recon he will get a half decent and usable single coil sound on the bridge.... he dont do neck pups so I guess we will never know what the split on that is like..

Things of note on the pups. Alnico2 magnet, nickel baseplate AND nickle covers. Nickle is the choice if you dont want the metal to affect tone too much. Brass is a tone sucker and most covers are brass then plated. These are German nickle silver, more expensive but worth IMHO. The coils are biased but not too much. Just enough to add a decent amount of separation without compromising the PAF target tone. They are double potted as gerg uses his gear loud. That is, I pot the coils once wound and then give then a light potting once the covers are on just to hold everything together. Gibson just immerse their pups in wax untill they are ice block solid. I dont...

Bill also has a set of these and I'm really looking forward to how the two tone guru's handle them. Only real difference between the two is that Bills are slightly less biased and they have chrome plate. Essentially the same PAF but with a very slight tweak.

Popcorn at the ready..

[WhiskeyJack]

NICE!!! That is bloody awesome. Have we heard Bill's yet?

I am still sitting on my Mutt Pups, Greg, i wouldn't sweat a few weeks buddy. lol.

I had no idea the difference in the brass and nickel covers actually. I should look into what all mine are. I would be curious to know. I don't really love the look of uncovered pick ups. They look half cooked to me.

[Minerman]

It's easy dude. They're usually soldered to the baseplate so you'll have to melt and wick away that solder. Then you may need to heat the top a little to soften any wax that might be in there. While it's warm, pop it off. Clean the wax and bam, uncovered pickup.

Yeah dude, I've read how to do this 1,000 times, but if/when you ever do this again, just take a few pics for the mentally challenged here in Deliveranceville, USA...

Excellent. Looking forward to what you can do with them..

I'll come clean and let you all know that as gerg has been such a good tester for the pups and helped me out with a lot of tones etc (more than he posts up) I did a deal with him. I offered to show my appreciation by spinning up a pup of his choice as a prize for the G90 winning design which I have sold a lot of. He suggested a PAF style for the GT LP and then said fuck it make two and he would stand me for the rest so here we are... I'm reall looking forward to hearing how they compare to the pups he has in there. My guess based on the design and spec we came up with is that they will be a touch smoother but with quite a bit more clarity and separation. They should also allow gerg to push them pretty hard without them going all buckermush on him. Thats how I approached it anyway... We shall see. I also recon he will get a half decent and usable single coil sound on the bridge.... he dont do neck pups so I guess we will never know what the split on that is like..

Things of note on the pups. Alnico2 magnet, nickel baseplate AND nickle covers. Nickle is the choice if you dont want the metal to affect tone too much. Brass is a tone sucker and most covers are brass then plated. These are German nickle silver, more expensive but worth IMHO. The coils are biased but not too much. Just enough to add a decent amount of separation without compromising the PAF target tone. They are double potted as gerg uses his gear loud. That is, I pot the coils once wound and then give then a light potting once the covers are on just to hold everything together. Gibson just immerse their pups in wax untill they are ice block solid. I dont...

Bill also has a set of these and I'm really looking forward to how the two tone guru's handle them. Only real difference between the two is that Bills are slightly less biased and they have chrome plate. Essentially the same PAF but with a very slight tweak.

Popcorn at the ready..

Mutt I'm just amazed at how much knowledge you have with all this shit man...It boggles my mind how you can take a few words of description from a caveman like me, then make what I was attempting to describe happen, sound-wise...I knew p'ups would affect the tone of a guitar, but never thought it'd affect it so much & in such a damn good way like the set you made for my strat...The difference is just un-fukcin' real from what that guitar was, & what it is now...

You truly are a tone-guru Mutt...

[Tadpui]

Awesome. Those sound really close to what I'd be after in a pair of buckers for my LP. I definitely like the AlNiCo 2 sound. My BB Pros have AlNiCo 4 or 5 (can't remember which), and I don't like them. Too "spikey" sounding to me. And my old pickups were ceramic coil and they were pretty terrible. Loud as hell, but not to my liking. These Mutt Pups look like they're right up my alley.

[muttley]

Awesome. Those sound really close to what I'd be after in a pair of buckers for my LP. I definitely like the AlNiCo 2 sound. My BB Pros have AlNiCo 4 or 5 (can't remember which), and I don't like them. Too "spikey" sounding to me. And my old pickups were ceramic coil and they were pretty terrible. Loud as hell, but not to my liking. These Mutt Pups look like they're right up my alley.

If you are after a smoother tone with less growl and more purr then A2 is definitely the way to go. You can still get a lot of gain out of them but they tend not to break up quite so easily. You have to be a little more picky with the amp settings but for my money thats the way to go on a PAF... For more contemporary aggressive in your face grind and punch A5 is the way to go.. Both are good and you can dial back or forward with the wind of the coils. but the magnet will define the ball park you are in and the wind will define how hard you have to hit the ball to make it fly...

[muttley]

Mutt I'm just amazed at how much knowledge you have with all this shit man...It boggles my mind how you can take a few words of description from a caveman like me, then make what I was attempting to describe happen, sound-wise...I knew p'ups would affect the tone of a guitar, but never thought it'd affect it so much & in such a damn good way like the set you made for my strat...The difference is just un-fukcin' real from what that guitar was, & what it is now...

You truly are a tone-guru Mutt...

The pickup is the beating heart of you tone, the amp is the body and the guitar is the lungs. You need to get them all right... Dont need to be a guru... just understand the materials and how they affect tone. The rest is in the fingers..

[Minerman]

the magnet will define the ball park you are in and the wind will define how hard you have to hit the ball to make it fly...

Great description that makes sense to me Mutt...I learned something today...

I have a Duncan Custom Custom a guy gave me a few years back, & he included some different magnets with it, but I've never tried 'em...

[muttley]

OK guys just to update you and so you dont think gerg is being tardy with this.... I'm all for raising my hand when needed.

A few days ago Gerg alerted me to a problem. He installed the pups and one of them didnt function. A few PM's later and gerg doing some test with a metre and were were still a bit puzzled... Turns out that some where there is a short and we pretty much ruled out a problem with the install. Odd thing was the coils were still showing an output which is how you test them BUT one of the leads was reading continuity going to ground when it should be hot. Exactly what the problem is we still dont know but being the super guys that gerg and I are, he is returning it too me and I am sending him a replacement so we can look into it some more. We apologise for the loss of service as I know you were all waiting on the next install...

Hang in there... I guess its one of things. Of the now 100's of pups I've wound this is the first dead man so I'm learning.. Thanks to gerg for helping with the trouble shooting and watch this space.

[Greg_L]

Ha yeah, it's true, and kudos to Mutt for jumping all over this in a hurry. It's not a big deal. We'll get it sorted out. He was all over this as soon as I alerted him to the problem.

For more clarification....the pickup does work. And it sounds awesome. We did a little collaborative probing with a multimeter and made some determinations. The issue seems to be that one of the coil wires has shorted internally to the shield wire. Normally you'd ground the shield wire with the end-of-coil wire, but since the shield wire is shorting the coil-start wire, there will be no signal. The pickup works if you leave the shield wire disconnected, but then there is no shielding and the pickup buzzes at idle. It would also work if I wire it into the guitar backwards - for example, treating the coil-start as the coil-end wire and grounding it and the shield wire together - but then that would put the pickup out of phase with the neck pickup. I'm not into that out of phase sound. Some people are. I was going to dig into it myself, but pickups are delicate and I'd rather just send it back to the man himself so he can figure out exactly what happened. Anyway, it's a minor little hiccup and Mutt is on the case.

Also, the neck pickup works beautifully. No problem there. Nice and fat and warm but crystal clear. If only I knew how to properly utilize a neck pickup.

[CrowsofFritz]

This is awesome! Can we get a listen?

[Greg_L]

This is awesome! Can we get a listen?

Still waiting on the bridge pickup. Should be here pretty soon.

[rayc]

Greg'n'Mutt,
Greg's seen n heard my Guyatone 125-T, (currently going, ridiculously, for AUS$900), Mosrite copy. It has a no name humbucker at the bridge position and an original Guyatone "P90 style" at the neck possie. I usually have it with the bridge selected.

Guyatone 125-T crop.jpg

Given I have dual hummers in my Mustang, dual hummers in my Epi Sheraton II and single coils in the other three electrics ought I opt for a MUTT in the bridge of the Guyatone to return it to, relative, original spec and have a P90ish guitar as a recording option?

[Greg_L]

You see how much space is around the pickup mounting hole and how your humbucker's ears had to be bent outward? That's pretty normal for fitting "normal" pickups into Mosrite type bodies. The string spacing looks off too. The mounting size of Mosrite type pickups is way bigger than typical pickups. They're just physically way bigger than any "standards" from pickup makers.

So IMO you'd need to get Mutt the measurements of the original pickup just for size, and then he could probably wind you pretty much anything. Or maybe even send him the original pickup. I don't know. To me, that guitar is begging for a gerg signature G90!

[rayc]

You see how much space is around the pickup mounting hole and how your humbucker's ears had to be bent outward? That's pretty normal for fitting "normal" pickups into Mosrite type bodies. The string spacing looks off too. The mounting size of Mosrite type pickups is way bigger than typical pickups. They're just physically way bigger than any "standards" from pickup makers.

So IMO you'd need to get Mutt the measurements of the original pickup just for size, and then he could probably wind you pretty much anything. Or maybe even send him the original pickup. I don't know. To me, that guitar is begging for a gerg signature G90!

Greg,
I had thought along similar lines.
The guitar sounds OK as is but the alignment etc as you mentioned isn't right so the guitar, a cheapie of its day but well built, isn't near its potential. When I was given the guitar it needed a set up and some wiring work so I took it to a luthier and also asked for supply/fit a replacement for the bridge but when I picked it up he'd not done that - telling me that the Humbucker was in good nick etc. Too late at that stage to insist. I suppose he didn't want the bother. I think I will commence discussions with the Mutt maker.

[rayc]

hmmmm

[muttley]

Hi guys, apologies to all but Ive been stupid busy these last few weeks and am still just about keeping ahead of the game...

Gergs pup is crossing the pond now so hopefully he will be able to report on that soonm. On the other stuff like Ray's Guyatone... all things are possible. I would like to see more close up pics of what you have and as gerg says, some spot measurements so we can find the best options before jumping in. Maybe a new thread when you are ready Ray? Its do-able but we would need to dot the T's and cross the I's first.

Anyway, cheers for you patience gerg, Its on the way...

[rayc]

Mutt,
Cool, I'm not in a hurry as I'm a gumby and have learnt to measure thrice and then not cut at all.
I will take snaps & measurements over the next couple of days.