Small room, horrible sound...can you hear if (minimal) treatment makes it better?

[SweetDan]

I'm attempting to determine if -- despite limitations* -- I can record drums that would sound a bit better by adding acoustic treatment in the room.

The kit is centered left/right in room, but pretty close to a wall - about 3' away. Acoustic treatment is a DIY 16"x36"x4" acoustic panel, filled with a single layer of rock wool insulation. I positioned the panel (arranged horizontally - in "landscape mode") roughly at the reflection point between the top of the snare and the overhead. It's temporary -- just sitting on a low bookshelf for now -- so I can move it or build and add more treatment, etc., if it's worthwhile.

Top of snare: ~25" from floor
Center of panel: ~41" from floor
Overhead mic: ~55" from floor

The question is: can you hear a difference in these two recordings? Does the one with acoustic treatment sound better that the one without? As is customary, there's no EQ, compression, nor any other processing on the tracks, just some quick level matching. I recorded with 2 mics (for now I'll leave out which mics so I don't bias any responses), one positioned "overhead", and one pretty close to and pointed at the kick drum.

drums2MicsA.mp3

drums2MicsB.mp3

*Limitations:
- 2 inputs on my current interface
- only 3 mics to choose from - an SM57, a Blue Spark (LDC), and an E/V CO9 (hand-held vocal mic...think SM58)
- the small room (home office) - 10'W x 11'L x 11'H (the high ceiling is nice, I must say)

[Tadpui]

I can't hear an appreciable difference between the two. I even put on my "reverb detectors" (Sennheiser HD380) and if there's a difference, I'm too dim to hear it.

But I have to say that in both clips, it sounds like a real drum kit in a real room. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. You've already got a leg up on EZDrummer and the like

Your room doesn't sound terrible or anything, and I actually kind of appreciate the ambiance. It's certainly not Abbey Road's Studio 1. That sound won't ever fly if you suddenly decide to start drumming in a Scandinavian death metal band, but I really don't hate it for a laid-back kind of drum tone. As you add more strategically-placed treatment and more spot-mics on the kit, you'll have more control over that ambiance. But for now, I'd say embrace it and write around it in your arrangements!

[ido1957]

Tiny difference in clip #2 - seems closer, tiny bit louder, "thicker" (like more mids or something) but it's really a tiny difference.

[Greg_L]

I think B sounds a little better. Not much, they're very similar, but B seems a bit punchier.

The hats and cymbals are pretty terrible though. Lol. No offense, but they sound like trash can lids. Some better tins will go a long way.

[vomitHatSteve]

I can't hear a difference on my work cans.

+1 on Greg's comment on the hats. They sound rough.

As to tad's comment, yeah those are definitely real drums in a real room. They could work, but it would be within a pretty limited scope of productions.

[SweetDan]

Aw man! I wasted* a few hours building that acoustic panel! Y'all are picking "B", which was recorded *without* treatment. Either the small bit of help it theoretically provides isn't noticeable, or I need 3-4x the square footage of treatment, or my playing wasn't consistent enough, or the sound of the crap cymbals I've got overrode all other concerns.

...hats and cymbals are pretty terrible though. Lol. No offense, but they sound like trash can lids...

None taken - they *are* trash. I scavenged the hats and crash off a small beginner kit, and they're probably made of brass. They're small too - 12" hats, 14" crash. The ride is better - a 20" Meinl HCS. As I've mentioned in other threads, I'm not a drummer, so this isn't a high priority for me. I'm more concerned with the adventure of building up a kit from cheap, used bits and pieces I can find on craigslist or ebay, going one piece at a time. But if I could get it to sound good decent in recordings as well, that would be a nice bonus.




*I don't think it was really wasted...I've built 2 bass traps and now the panel used in this experiment, and I'm getting into a nice workflow for how to quickly throw an acoustic panel together. Who knows...I could soon have the whole room covered with roxul!

[vomitHatSteve]

Listening on better cans now. B sounds slightly louder overall. Are you sure you matched their volumes?

[SweetDan]

Are you sure you matched their volumes?

No...I eyeballed (ear-balled?) it...

[JD01]

Dan,

Greg has posted up a pic of his drum room here:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1652&start=80
I'm also working on cheapo room treatment solutions that you could try.

[SweetDan]

I'm also working on cheapo room treatment solutions that you could try.

Yeah, I've been following your thread. It's been a great motivation to get to work on my own acoustics issues, so thanks.

[liv_rong]

I think they both sound pretty decent........except those cymbals! I cant hear a difference between the two at all.

[SweetDan]

I'm getting some used 13" hats - Paiste 502's; 5-10 business days shipping, so a little wait. Getting a half-decent crash is still in the medium/long-term future.

[SweetDan]

Got the new hats. Better? (Yes)

sweetDansNewHats_2mics.mp3

And here's the hats (well, everything) in a quick mix:

untitled_20180602.mp3

I know I started the thread off asking if the additional acoustic treatment made a difference, but I don't have a recording for the drums in that mix where I took the acoustic panel down, so the comparison is "unscientific". It's too late right now to re-record those drums anyway...I'd wake up everybody in the house.

[SweetDan]

Here's the room layout; dimensions again are about 10'Wx11'L. With the desk, chair, bookcase/filing cabinet/shelves in there, it's a pretty tight fit to include the drums, and I simply turn around in my computer chair, roll a couple inches, and I'm at the drum set.

[SweetDan]

Oops...I forgot I had recorded the drums only without the new acoustic panel (compare this recording to sweetDansNewHats_2mics.mp3 two posts up):

[liv_rong]

Definitely better hats man. Cool song too, that sounds fun to drum to. I dont notice too much of a difference between the treeated vs untread, except maybe slightly "drier".

[JD01]

The new hi hats sound much better than the old ones!

[vomitHatSteve]

Yeah, those hats are better. They're probably still the low point of the kit, but they're much improved.