The Tone Thread

[Minerman]

Those pics don't show man

How 'bout now??? I used photobucket & they wouldn't show, but edited my post then uploaded 'em directly to the forum...

[Greg_L]

Yeah I see the SG. That thing is weirdo cool.

[Minerman]

Yeah I see the SG. That thing is weirdo cool.

I'd love to have that one back now, but it's been gone for 20+ years (BTW, hard to believe it's been that long)...I remember playing it through my little Fender Bronco Amp combo (1x10) & the only way it'd distort was to crank it wide open, Mom & Dad created a monster all those years ago...

The p'up was a "soapbar" thing, I'm guessing it was close to a P-90 or a mini-humbucker...I do remember it didn't squeal/feedback like a single coil though...Fuck man, that's been 34 years ago this year...

[Minerman]

Just had a look on the link you gave me & there are a bunch of 'em pretty similar...The p'up & pickguard are different, but they look pretty close...

About $200 w/shipping:

Chibson SG Jr 60's.jpg

Not sure what it says on the front of the headstock, but the other pics say "Made In USA" with a serial # on the back, so I'm assuming if they're gonna go through all the other details, it'll say "Gibson"...Wow...

[Greg_L]

Just had a look on the link you gave me & there are a bunch of 'em pretty similar...The p'up & pickguard are different, but they look pretty close...

About $200 w/shipping:
Chibson SG Jr 60's.jpg

Not sure what it says on the front of the headstock, but the other pics say "Made In USA" with a serial # on the back, so I'm assuming if they're gonna go through all the other details, it'll say "Gibson"...Wow...

Yeah that's an SG Jr. Awesome guitar!

[Greg_L]

Your SG-1 probably had a minihumbucker.

[Minerman]

Your SG-1 probably had a minihumbucker.

Yeah, probably, it had a black plastic cover...I did some digging a while back & found out this:

GibsonSolidBody73.jpg

So what I had was the cheapest SG they made that year...

I'm gonna give it a while & see if your Chibson holds up pretty good, & I might just buy that SG Jr...Of course, replacing most everything on it that ain't wood would be in order, but it'd still be a lot cheaper & easier than trying to find a real one...

[Greg_L]

Your SG-1 probably had a minihumbucker.

Yeah, probably, it had a black plastic cover...I did some digging a while back & found out this:

GibsonSolidBody73.jpg

So what I had was the cheapest SG they made that year...

I'm gonna give it a while & see if your Chibson holds up pretty good, & I might just buy that SG Jr...Of course, replacing most everything on it that ain't wood would be in order, but it'd still be a lot cheaper & easier than trying to find a real one...

Ha awesome. The Les Paul pickguard is pretty silly on the SG-1, but otherwise I like it.

For what we'll be using it for, I don't foresee this Chibson Jr falling apart or anything. I might even gig with it a few times, maybe, but it seems okay for a dicking around guitar. And it really sounds and plays great. I'm gonna get some strap-locks for it tomorrow.

[rayc]

Replacement/alternate preamp tubes arrived this arvo. I decided to try the lower value one 1st.
I haven't fiddled with tubes in a guitar amp before - only old TV ones.
It was interesting -.
Power off and disconnected from every/any thing for a few hours in advance.
The cover to the amp has 12 screws - crazy - probably to dissuade people like me.
Cover off & the preamp tube was in a protective sleeve - so push, turn & lift- with some jiggling because the spring seemed to snag - and the tubes was exposed.
It was seated very tightly.
Lots or wriggling, jiggling and BAM, it exploded in my hand - bits went everywhere - including in the pet food bowls - I had to deal with that straight away.
Tidied, swept, vacuumed for specks of glass everywhere including the amp.
New one in the seat but again VERY tight so I decided to be very gentle and part way in it decided it was happy & no problems from there.
Downstairs, plugged in & on - left it on for 1/2 an hour - don't know why - I just did.
Plugged in guitar - set amp to TWO and here's the result.
Everything's pretty much the same process as before, through each pick up & 1st time through at about 7 on the guitar then on ten, except after 3.45 I progressively turned the amp up to 10 just to hear what it sounded like.
Here it is - any improvement?
Obviously I can't go back to the original tube but the extra one is 70% of the gain of the original so I can UP a little or order a lower one to go down somewhat.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzbsryfobi5cs ... o.mp3?dl=0

[Minerman]

I'm gonna get some strap-locks for it tomorrow.

Those are a must-have for a gigging guitarist IMO...I've saw quite a few nice guitars get fucked up because they didn't have strap locks on 'em...They should be on every guitar made, by every manufacturer that makes a guitar/bass/whatever IMO...

Maybe Trump can pass some sort of law to make it illegal to sell an instrument without 'em...

[Minerman]

Ray: I went all the way back to your Super Bass clip dude...I think it sounds the best, but it's weird it doesn't break up...On the Kustom, the lower gain tube definitely helped, but I think you maybe could go with an even lower gain tube...My little EVH has got a crazy amount of gain, but I tamed one channel of it using lower gained tubes...It made a big difference to me, for the better...

Maybe you can try some different tubes in both amps dude, maybe a higher gain in the Marshall, & an even lower gain tube in the Kustom...Like Greg mentioned, pre-amp tubes ain't that expensive, & they're plug-n-play, no bias check/adjustment like the power tubes...I agree with him on the cork-sniffing thing too, although I've been guilty of it, it was when I first got the Egnater I had...There are minute differences, but not enough for me to worry about at all...

It sucks the tube broke while getting it out & you seem to be like me, my pets are more important to me than anything in the house...Like I've said before, if there were more folks like you in the world, it'd be a better place...

If it wouldn't cost an arm & leg, I'd send you a few 12AU7 tubes dude, I bought 'em for my 1w Marshall (they're the power tubes in that amp), but I'd be glad to send you a few if it wasn't crazy expensive...Check into it & holler at me, my zip code here is 24243...

[rayc]

Minerman,
Thanks for the offer. I can get my hands on a tube that's 45% of the gain of the original or one that's 19% easily enough - two day turn around.
The getting isn't a problem now I know.
I have to suss out the specs for the Marshall now so I can up that while bringing down the other.
It appears the stock version preamp features 3 12ax7's. I have no idea what is in it at the moment. I'll have a squiz and order for both amps I suppose.
Again, thanks for the offer, I appreciate it but I can cover it from here.

[JD01]

Actually home at my desk listening through monitors this morning.

1. Clean, they're really similar. The SG might be a little thicker and the Jr a touch brighter, but that's about it really.
2. As you turn them up the Jr isn't quite a thick as the SG, but I think the Jr retains a bit more clarity where the SG was starting to get a tiny bit mushy.

On balance I slightly prefer the Jr, but the difference is pretty minimal.

The both sound really good though, I think the main thing that this shows, is that good pickups and a good amp make far more difference to the actual sound you get than anything to do with wood and construction... providing the Jr is well set up and nice to play (actually makes you want to play it) then you've got a bargain there as it looks fucking cool. If its a bit of a dog it still sounds good so there's no reason not to use it for double tracking guitars when you're recording, so its still has use.

Note to self... Marshall having its bollocks stamped on = good tone.

[JD01]

Ray, I'm listening to these on monitors at home now so I'm not doing a like for like comparsion with my office headphones I listened to the other clips.

All the clean stuff sounds good to me.
I like the first pickup where the drive comes in at just before 3 minutes, the 2nd one is bit muddy, but I like the 3rd one.

Really like the one of 4:00 where the drive really starts to come in.

Obviously I like the pile of noise and feedback at the end. The main thing with these though is that they don't sound muddy and indistinct like the other ones did. Some of that could be down to monitors over my headphones in the office, but I wouldn't think much of it is!

[JD01]

Haven't really posted up many basstones, ever really. Anyway, this is probably the best one I've managed so far and it seems to play nice with my guitars too in that it cuts through the mix and beefs up the bottom end without things becoming a mushy mess. When I've finished (which will happen after I start) the vocal on this I'll post up the full mix.

[muttley]

Hey greg, cheers for the tone clips. Havent listened on decent monitors yet but on my workshop setup they sound pretty good.

First impressions..

The Chibby sounds thinner, less depth and less quality in the decay.

The Gibby has way more subtle colouring particularly in the low and mids.

I'd suspect that has a lot to do with the harmonics of the string and the way the guitars are reflecting the sound waves back from the body and neck. Subtle but its definitely there. Both definitely have that Gibby p90 classic sound though.

I'd be interested to hear both guitars in the white with no amplification. Subjectively how do you think they differ played unpluggerd tone wise?

[Greg_L]

Replacement/alternate preamp tubes arrived this arvo. I decided to try the lower value one 1st.
I haven't fiddled with tubes in a guitar amp before - only old TV ones.
It was interesting -.
Power off and disconnected from every/any thing for a few hours in advance.
The cover to the amp has 12 screws - crazy - probably to dissuade people like me.
Cover off & the preamp tube was in a protective sleeve - so push, turn & lift- with some jiggling because the spring seemed to snag - and the tubes was exposed.
It was seated very tightly.
Lots or wriggling, jiggling and BAM, it exploded in my hand - bits went everywhere - including in the pet food bowls - I had to deal with that straight away.
Tidied, swept, vacuumed for specks of glass everywhere including the amp.
New one in the seat but again VERY tight so I decided to be very gentle and part way in it decided it was happy & no problems from there.
Downstairs, plugged in & on - left it on for 1/2 an hour - don't know why - I just did.
Plugged in guitar - set amp to TWO and here's the result.
Everything's pretty much the same process as before, through each pick up & 1st time through at about 7 on the guitar then on ten, except after 3.45 I progressively turned the amp up to 10 just to hear what it sounded like.
Here it is - any improvement?
Obviously I can't go back to the original tube but the extra one is 70% of the gain of the original so I can UP a little or order a lower one to go down somewhat.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzbsryfobi5cs ... o.mp3?dl=0

I think that is way better than it was. It doesn't get too nasty until the very end, and even then it's better than the nastiness of before. That tube really tamed that little amp. Now, if you wanted to, it could maybe be a good pedal platform. Crank it up to slight breakup and then slam it with an overdrive or a good dirt pedal.

On the tube shattering thing, that's a bummer. Usually you just have to gently rock them back and forth a little and they pop right out. It's weird that yours broke. Maybe it cracked or something during the process. Maybe it was already cracked. Who knows. You don't have to go through all those precautions though to swap preamp tubes. Besides the glass shattering in your hand, there's no danger to swapping a tube. You won't get electrocuted or hurt the amp in any way. You can even do it with the amp on if you had to. All you gotta do is let the new tube warm up a little.

But anyway, your new tube made a big difference for the better IMO.

[Greg_L]

Actually home at my desk listening through monitors this morning.

1. Clean, they're really similar. The SG might be a little thicker and the Jr a touch brighter, but that's about it really.
2. As you turn them up the Jr isn't quite a thick as the SG, but I think the Jr retains a bit more clarity where the SG was starting to get a tiny bit mushy.

On balance I slightly prefer the Jr, but the difference is pretty minimal.

The both sound really good though, I think the main thing that this shows, is that good pickups and a good amp make far more difference to the actual sound you get than anything to do with wood and construction... providing the Jr is well set up and nice to play (actually makes you want to play it) then you've got a bargain there as it looks fucking cool. If its a bit of a dog it still sounds good so there's no reason not to use it for double tracking guitars when you're recording, so its still has use.

Note to self... Marshall having its bollocks stamped on = good tone.

Thanks. I agree with your assessment. I've always believed that the guitar itself just doesn't matter all that much when you're dealing with some gain and massive volume. I've always believed the pickups and amp interaction is more important than wood. The Jr is a little more clear, the SG has more punch and grunt to it. I don't know what effect the guitar build and construction has on all that, but the SG pickup is slightly hotter and has slightly older strings. The Jr has a wraparound bridge, the SG has tune-o-matic + stopbar. The SG also has a (turned off) neck pickup sitting in near proximity to the bridge pickup, the Jr has just a single bridge pickup. All of that has to matter to some degree, but not enough for me. I like em both.

[Greg_L]

Hey greg, cheers for the tone clips. Havent listened on decent monitors yet but on my workshop setup they sound pretty good.

First impressions..

The Chibby sounds thinner, less depth and less quality in the decay.

The Gibby has way more subtle colouring particularly in the low and mids.

I'd suspect that has a lot to do with the harmonics of the string and the way the guitars are reflecting the sound waves back from the body and neck. Subtle but its definitely there. Both definitely have that Gibby p90 classic sound though.

I'd be interested to hear both guitars in the white with no amplification. Subjectively how do you think they differ played unpluggerd tone wise?

Thanks Mutt. Unplugged, the two guitars are noticeably quite different. The Chibson is quite a bit brighter and louder than the SG. The SG is darker but sustains longer. They're both fairly resonant. The Chibson's body wood is a mystery to me. It's supposed to be mahogany, but I'm not entirely sure. The neck does appear to be mahogany. My SG's body is true mahogany and has a maple neck.

I don't expect, or even want, the guitars to sound the same. They're different, and that's a good thing. As long as they sound good and play good, and then look good, that's all I care about. And they do ticck all those boxes for me. And your pickups really are fantastic. Thank you.

[Greg_L]

Haven't really posted up many basstones, ever really. Anyway, this is probably the best one I've managed so far and it seems to play nice with my guitars too in that it cuts through the mix and beefs up the bottom end without things becoming a mushy mess. When I've finished (which will happen after I start) the vocal on this I'll post up the full mix.

That sounds pretty cool. Nice depth to it without too much mush. It's still a little bit clacky, so that must be something going on in your signal chain or how you play, but it's definitely not as clacky as your other bass as far as I can remember. The clack might not matter at all once you pile other shit in the mix.