The Tone Thread

[JD01]

Yeah, the right is the P90 (sorry, I should have said but it is kind of obvious!). I think the clip sounds nice enough when the Humbucker is chugging and the P90s is strumming, but then as soon as I swap them over half way through its a real breath of fresh air...

I might actually re-track the right rhythm guitar on that Placebo Effects track to see what effect that has on the overall tone and feel of the thing.

[muttley]

Check this out when you get a minute. I was re-tracking another song this afternoon and I decided to alternate parts to get a bit of a pickup comparison between the JB and the PRS P90.

Getting a guitar with a P90 has really opened my eyes actually - I'm looking forward to getting a milder Humbucker now.Pickup Comparison.mp3

I think this one got missed in amongst the various tones and speakers yesterday evening, but its a really short one and is an interesting comparison between my two main recording guitars at the moment.

I'd like my replacement humbucker to be something a bit brighter like the P90 but while still retaining some humbucker meatiness.

Pickup Comparison.mp3

I've discussed spec options with Mutt already, but I'd appreciate any comments from someone who's got a good ear for tones.

What I find is that I can say if I like something or not when I listen to it but can't tell if I think its bright/dark, open/boxy unless I have a point of reference of another clip. Which is why it was such an eye opener getting this P90. Seems to sound good when paired to my JB.

I'm on crap speakers right now so will give those a listen later.

A note on humbuckers vs p90 in general. By the very nature of a humbucker using two coils to cancel out a lot of the noise you also cancel out a lot of the bite that you get with a p90 or other single coil. You can try and add it back by selecting different magnet types, cover and baseplate material and how you load the coil up but it will always be a humbucker. A lot of the p90 tone comes from the fact that it is a single coil and also the size and shape of the bobbin, wide and shallow compared to a humbucker thin and deep. I would like to play with the idea of a stacked Mutt90 at some point by taking the coils and placing them on top of each other rather than side by side like a humbucker. I believe that could be quite interesting..

[Greg_L]

A note on humbuckers vs p90 in general. By the very nature of a humbucker using two coils to cancel out a lot of the noise you also cancel out a lot of the bite that you get with a p90 or other single coil. You can try and add it back by selecting different magnet types, cover and baseplate material and how you load the coil up but it will always be a humbucker. A lot of the p90 tone comes from the fact that it is a single coil and also the size and shape of the bobbin, wide and shallow compared to a humbucker thin and deep. I would like to play with the idea of a stacked Mutt90 at some point by taking the coils and placing them on top of each other rather than side by side like a humbucker. I believe that could be quite interesting..

Gibson makes a stacked P90 called a Sidewinder. They're okay. They sound like a mild humbucker.

[muttley]

A note on humbuckers vs p90 in general. By the very nature of a humbucker using two coils to cancel out a lot of the noise you also cancel out a lot of the bite that you get with a p90 or other single coil. You can try and add it back by selecting different magnet types, cover and baseplate material and how you load the coil up but it will always be a humbucker. A lot of the p90 tone comes from the fact that it is a single coil and also the size and shape of the bobbin, wide and shallow compared to a humbucker thin and deep. I would like to play with the idea of a stacked Mutt90 at some point by taking the coils and placing them on top of each other rather than side by side like a humbucker. I believe that could be quite interesting..

Gibson makes a stacked P90 called a Sidewinder. They're okay. They sound like a mild humbucker.

They do but the bobbin size and shape is not the same as a p90. Many of the p90 humbuckers also dont have the correct size bobbin either, they just use a cut down p90 bobbin. Thats where the hand wound comes in. I can easily play with the size and shape of the bobbin. They're fixed to what they have a ton of.. They have played around with a variety of bobbin layouts over the years as well and most are still side by side. I'm not suggesting that my idea is in anyway new, ideas rarely are... but I believe I can get a better range of tones from a hand wound design than they can from a production winder... We shall see.

[Greg_L]

but I believe I can get a better range of tones from a hand wound design than they can from a production winder... We shall see.

I don't doubt that. Gibson's Sidewinder is nothing to get excited about.

[rammer24]

The heavy bits do sound better than before.

That was really my main concern. I used my P-90's and they seem to sound way less fizzy than my Gibson pick-ups for my amp.

The dynamics and all that will be dealt with when I put vocals on it and mix it.

[cakewalkKaKed]

was scouting uchoob for messa f30 clips,then found this cam mic demo

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAft7V42W4[/BBvideo]

i want a keeley compressor ! ... gimmie !

[rammer24]

Here's a very short clip using the LePou Hybrit on the MCJ (JCM) setting, with MCJ Boost engaged, going into one of Greg's SM57 Mashall cab impulses.

What kind of tweaking does this need? Sounds pretty good to me, but I didn't spend a lot of time trying to get it perfect.

You really need to only listen to the intro. The rythm guitars left and right are my Fender amp.

Pepe LePou.mp3

[Greg_L]

Here's a very short clip using the LePou Hybrit on the MCJ (JCM) setting, with MCJ Boost engaged, going into one of Greg's SM57 Mashall cab impulses.

What kind of tweaking does this need? Sounds pretty good to me, but I didn't spend a lot of time trying to get it perfect.

You really need to only listen to the intro. The rythm guitars left and right are my Fender amp.

Pepe LePou.mp3

Lol goddamn that actually sounds pretty good. Sounds like hot Marshall tone.

I still hear some warbling with your tuning though.

[rammer24]

Yeah, it's an older track, before I changed strings and set up the neck, etc....I'll re-track that, but I wanted to see if I was on the right track with the tone. Cool. Getting there.

[WhiskeyJack]

Shit.

i'm impressed. that sounds pretty deadly. i am on ear buds, but it does sound pretty rad. I'm gonna download mine tonight i think and try it out.

[rammer24]

Oh, and just for the record, that was my Gibson, not my Epi. The same Gibson that sounded so scratchy throught my amp sounds big and full through this set up. It's going to sound even better when I re-track, now that the neck is set up and the strings are new.

[Greg_L]

Here's a real vs cab sim quickie test.

What I done did was I went through all of my cab impulses and chose the most basic never-fails file there is - Shure SM57, Greenback speaker, dustcap edge, on axis, 1" off grill, Marshall 4x12 cab. No problem. I mic my own speakers like that all the time, so that's what I did. I stuck my own 57 1" from the dustcap edge on one of my own Greenbacks in a Marshall 4x12.

Then I ran a cable from the Line Out on my attenuator to a Line input on my interface. This feeds straight out of the attenuator so it gets full amp power from the amp's power section. I armed a track for the mic, armed a track for the Line In, balanced them out, hit record. On the Line In track direct from the attenuator, I loaded up the cab sim.

Here are the results. Note - the attenuator was not attenuating. It was in bypass mode, only being used for the Direct Out feed.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckles Riff Raff bridge pickup
Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 4
Bass - 6
Mid - 4
Treb - 5
Gain - 7
Master vol - 5
Marshall 1960a 4x12 - Celestion Greenback
Shure SM57 on axis, 1" off grill, dustcap edge.
No EQ or FX in DAW...besides the cab emulation on the direct track.

First up...the actual mic and speaker recording real sound.

LPC800GB57.mp3

Next...the cab/speaker impulse file on the direct track from attenuator.

LPC800GB57CabSim.mp3

Lasty...the horrid direct from attenuator, no cab sim. This is why you need real speakers or at least a good cab/speaker sim.

LPC800AttDirect.mp3

So there ya go. See what you think. I think those cab impulse files are pretty legit.

[rammer24]

Man, those first 2 are almost identical...as they should be, I guess.

That third one is definitely why you need a cab or cab impulse. Fizz city.

Makes a great case for these impulses.

[rammer24]

I think I'm going to be using these sims and impulses until I buy a new amp. I got a decent sound with barely any effort, as opposed to having to tweak, post, re-tweak, post again, get more opinions, tweak, etc....with my amp.

I might buy a Marshall eventually, but I can't right now. Bought those hi-hats the other day, bought a bunch of dumbells for my gym this morning. Spent about a thousand bucks in the last 3 days. Can't buy an amp just yet.

Now, my questions is, in your opnion (any and all of you), should I get something like Amplitube for the sake of having a variety of heads to choose from, or can I get enough variety using the same amp head with different cab impulses. I don't want my rythm tracks blending in with my lead tracks and all sounding the same.

[Greg_L]

I think I'm going to be using these sims and impulses until I buy a new amp. I got a decent sound with barely any effort, as opposed to having to tweak, post, re-tweak, post again, get more opinions, tweak, etc....with my amp.

I might buy a Marshall eventually, but I can't right now. Bought those hi-hats the other day, bought a bunch of dumbells for my gym this morning. Spent about a thousand bucks in the last 3 days. Can't buy an amp just yet.

Now, my questions is, in your opnion (any and all of you), should I get something like Amplitube for the sake of having a variety of heads to choose from, or can I get enough variety using the same amp head with different cab impulses. I don't want my rythm tracks blending in with my lead tracks and all sounding the same.

I would say, no, don't worry about a shit ton of variety. Just pick up a few of the other LePoop head sims and maybe a few other cab sims.

[rammer24]

OK, that's cool. I already downloaded 3 other LePou heads. Not crazy about any of them other than the Hybrit. The others seem to be geared more towards metal. One of them is based on some "German" amp and it's got more gain than.........something with a shit ton of gain (I'm not good with analogies).

But ok, I'll look into a few other heads.

[Greg_L]

Man, those first 2 are almost identical...as they should be, I guess.

That third one is definitely why you need a cab or cab impulse. Fizz city.

Makes a great case for these impulses.

Yeah they're pretty damn close. That's why I think so highly of these cab impulses - I know what the real thing sounds like. Hell, impulses are the real thing, sort of. If I had to silent record, I'd absolutely be balls deep in these speaker impulse files. They murder your average amplitube/guitar rig sim package.

[Greg_L]

OK, that's cool. I already downloaded 3 other LePou heads. Not crazy about any of them other than the Hybrit. The others seem to be geared more towards metal. One of them is based on some "German" amp and it's got more gain than.........something with a shit ton of gain (I'm not good with analogies).

But ok, I'll look into a few other heads.

Unfortunately that's what most sim guys are into - fucking metal. Heavy metal guitars are supposed to sound shitty and fizzy, so sims are perfect.

[rammer24]

Yes, no mids, scooped like Baskin and Robbins, grainy, and heavy as shit. I guess you have to get rid of those mids to make room for Cookie Monster's vocal track.