The Tone Thread

[JD01]

I'll pop up just a bass and drums section over the next few days if I get chance. I'd like you to have a listen and tell me what you think the problem is.

Okay but that doesn't really work. Drums and bass by themselves might sound fat and awesome. But then you put it all together in a mix and things get messy.

We'll have a listen and see. The problem does seem to be really accentuated by the emulated guitars.

[Minerman]

Lol...I remember at least once when you did that...The only thing I've found on this attenuator I don't like is it only has 1 speaker jack...I might add another jack, maybe...I'm assuming something that seems simple would be, we'll see...

Do you really need another jack on that thing?

Honestly, no at the moment, but if I ever wanted to use more than one cab with it, I'd have to either put another jack on the attenuator, or use the cabs chained together using their jacks...

[Greg_L]

Honestly, no at the moment, but if I ever wanted to use more than one cab with it, I'd have to either put another jack on the attenuator, or use the cabs chained together using their jacks...

That's what I do. I'd rather link cabs together than run multiple cables off a head or through the attenuator. I've made all of my cabs able to be daisy chained.

[Minerman]

Honestly, no at the moment, but if I ever wanted to use more than one cab with it, I'd have to either put another jack on the attenuator, or use the cabs chained together using their jacks...

That's what I do. I'd rather link cabs together than run multiple cables off a head or through the attenuator. I've made all of my cabs able to be daisy chained.

That's cool man...The EVH cab only has one jack, but adding another jack to a cab isn't a big deal...I had to flip it's back cover when I got it, those cabs come with the jack toward the bottom (I'm assuming to make it easier when stacking 'em), so I flipped it so it'd be toward the top, which is much easier for me to be able to reach 'em...

Thinking sensibly (something I seldom do ) about the attenuator, I suppose there might be a reason it only has one speaker jack, so I guess my best bet is to just leave it alone...

[Greg_L]

That's cool man...The EVH cab only has one jack, but adding another jack to a cab isn't a big deal...I had to flip it's back cover when I got it, those cabs come with the jack toward the bottom (I'm assuming to make it easier when stacking 'em), so I flipped it so it'd be toward the top, which is much easier for me to be able to reach 'em...

I think the reason some cabs with a single jack have the jack at the bottom is so you can remove the back door and lay it down and get inside the cab while leaving it all connected. With the jack at the bottom it's no problem - the back door can just lay down. With the jack at the top, it's not that easy. That's how I've always looked at it anyway.

Thinking sensibly (something I seldom do ) about the attenuator, I suppose there might be a reason it only has one speaker jack, so I guess my best bet is to just leave it alone...

It's probably just a cost/manufacturing issue, and maybe a reliability issue. It's nothing to put another jack in parallel. But it does require more parts and labor and that might drive up the cost above their target price point. Just to do one is no big deal. But to build thousands of attenuators with an extra jack would slow down the whole process.

But then you also have to keep in mind that the end user needs to know to halve the impedance at the amp when connecting multiple cabs. They might not want to be responsible for that.

[Minerman]

I think the reason some cabs with a single jack have the jack at the bottom is so you can remove the back door and lay it down and get inside the cab while leaving it all connected. With the jack at the bottom it's no problem - the back door can just lay down. With the jack at the top, it's not that easy. That's how I've always looked at it anyway.

See, I'd never thought of it that way, you're probably right dude...

It's probably just a cost/manufacturing issue, and maybe a reliability issue. It's nothing to put another jack in parallel. But it does require more parts and labor and that might drive up the cost above their target price point. Just to do one is no big deal. But to build thousands of attenuators with an extra jack would slow down the whole process.

But also have to keep in mind that the end user needs to know to halve the impedance at the amp when connecting multiple cabs. They might not want to be responsible for that.

My nephew the preacher shocked me at the 4th of July gig, he told me it didn't matter...He basically told me on an amp, a speaker jack is a speaker jack & as long as he had sound, that's it...He uses a Carvin V3 mini head & 16ohm-V30 2x12 cab btw...

I'm really picky with that shit & I always go the extra mile to make sure my impedance matches...I'd never forgive myself if I fucked something up because of simple impedance matching...

[Greg_L]

My nephew the preacher shocked me at the 4th of July gig, he told me it didn't matter...He basically told me on an amp, a speaker jack is a speaker jack & as long as he had sound, that's it...He uses a Carvin V3 mini head & 16ohm-V30 2x12 cab btw...

I'm really picky with that shit & I always go the extra mile to make sure my impedance matches...I'd never forgive myself if I fucked something up because of simple impedance matching...

I know everyone harps on it and technically the amp/cab impedance should match...but it's not totally that big of a deal. A one-step mismatch won't really hurt anything most of the time. I wouldn't recommend anyone intentionally mismatch, but it's not immediate amp death if you do.

[Greg_L]

Okay you sumbitches. Here's my first nasty foray into the Xotic EP Booster.

Disclaimer....I used a cab/speaker and mic combo that I pretty much never use.

Les Paul Traditional - Muttpup Gerg Custom hot-PAF-ish humpukers
Marshall JMP 2204
All volume and EQ controls on 5
Carvin something or other 4x12
Celestion G12T-75 - Senn e609 on grill, on axis, halfway across cone
No EQ or FX in DAW

Here's the baseline amp only tone

LP EPboost baseline 2204 75 609.mp3

EP Boost engaged turned up to about 10:00

LP EPboost 10_00 2204 75 609.mp3

EP Boost engaged about 2:00

LP EPboost 2_00 2204 75 609.mp3

EP Boost engaged at max

LP EPboost max 2204 75 609.mp3

Baseline and boost turned on and off at random settings.

LP EPboost varied 2204 75 609.mp3

Baseline with Boss SD-1 on and off random settings

LP SD1 varied 2204 75 609.mp3

Baseline with Tube Screamer TS9 on and off random settings

LP TS9 varied 2204 75 609.mp3

So see what you think of this garbage.

[JD01]

Had a good listen to your baseline and the various boosted clips, alternating between them all and checking parts against eachother (the forum player layout is really good for this actually).

I really like that boost. It probably ends up giving you more gain that you'd like, generally but I like it. It sounds best to me when you start chugging away on a few powerchords. It also makes the lead stuff sound a bit thicker. Directly comparing the baseline with 2:00 from about 55s makes this most obvious to me.

That bit around 2:00 is probably my favourite of the clips. When you're playing open rhythm at 12s the full boost sounds like its a bit too much to me.

[Greg_L]

Had a good listen to your baseline and the various boosted clips, alternating between them all and checking parts against eachother (the forum player layout is really good for this actually).

I really like that boost. It probably ends up giving you more gain that you'd like, generally but I like it. It sounds best to me when you start chugging away on a few powerchords. It also makes the lead stuff sound a bit thicker. Directly comparing the baseline with 2:00 from about 55s makes this most obvious to me.

That bit around 2:00 is probably my favourite of the clips. When you're playing open rhythm at 12s the full boost sounds like its a bit too much to me.

Yeah, so far from the little bit I've played with it, I feel like it will make my SD1 and Tube Screamer obsolete. Which is good. The EP is just a boost, and that's really all I ever want. I don't use the dirt built into regular OD pedals. I hate it. A little hint of hair from the Tube Screamer is okay sometimes, but usually not. The SD1 is virtually useless except as a boost. So the EP is pretty good IMO. I especially like how it doesn't color the signal. The openness and clarity is still there....it's just more. I love what it does to my sloppy rock and roll lead style, so that's good. I like it.

The only other single knob boost I can compare it to from experience is the TC Mini-Spark. The Spark is nice too, but I think it's much more aggressive than the EP. The EP is milder but more transparent.

[JD01]

Yeah, so far from the little bit I've played with it, I feel like it will make my SD1 and Tube Screamer obsolete. Which is good. The EP is just a boost, and that's really all I ever want. I don't use the dirt built into regular OD pedals. I hate it. A little hint of hair from the Tube Screamer is okay sometimes, but usually not. The SD1 is virtually useless except as a boost. So the EP is pretty good IMO. I especially like how it doesn't color the signal. The openness and clarity is still there....it's just more. I love what it does to my sloppy rock and roll lead style, so that's good. I like it.

The only other single knob boost I can compare it to from experience is the TC Mini-Spark. The Spark is nice too, but I think it's much more aggressive than the EP. The EP is milder but more transparent.

I found the same with the SD1 too - I hated the sound of the gain from it so it almost always ended up with the gain on 0. I never take the TS about 9 O clock on the gain either.

I'm still undecided on the TubeScreamer. I prefer it to the SD1, but sometimes think that something less coloured would be nicer. I don't want 3 OD/Boosts on my board, so its just a question of deciding which thing I want alongside the OCD....

I'm almost certain that I'll end up getting the cheapo Chinese clone of the EP Boost, kind of like it, regret buying it and then buy an actual EP Boost.

EDIT: Cheapo Chinese clones of the EP Booster don't seem to exist.

[Greg_L]

I found the same with the SD1 too - I hated the sound of the gain from it so it almost always ended up with the gain on 0. I never take the TS about 9 O clock on the gain either.

I'm still undecided on the TubeScreamer. I prefer it to the SD1, but sometimes think that something less coloured would be nicer. I don't want 3 OD/Boosts on my board, so its just a question of deciding which thing I want alongside the OCD....

I'm almost certain that I'll end up getting the cheapo Chinese clone of the EP Boost, kind of like it, regret buying it and then buy an actual EP Boost.

EDIT: Cheapo Chinese clones of the EP Booster don't seem to exist.

Don't you have an EQ pedal? Why not just use that as a flat boost?

[JD01]

I found the same with the SD1 too - I hated the sound of the gain from it so it almost always ended up with the gain on 0. I never take the TS about 9 O clock on the gain either.

I'm still undecided on the TubeScreamer. I prefer it to the SD1, but sometimes think that something less coloured would be nicer. I don't want 3 OD/Boosts on my board, so its just a question of deciding which thing I want alongside the OCD....

I'm almost certain that I'll end up getting the cheapo Chinese clone of the EP Boost, kind of like it, regret buying it and then buy an actual EP Boost.

EDIT: Cheapo Chinese clones of the EP Booster don't seem to exist.

Don't you have an EQ pedal? Why not just use that as a flat boost?

I do actually - I've not really played with it much using it as a boost. I got it to use in the loop to tone-shape my Blackstar. Its been sitting in my bucket of bits, patch leads, old pedals and random shit I never use since I got the H&K

Now, using it as a flat boost... most boosts/overdrives etc, shelf off the lows so you don't end up with a flubby mess. If you were going to actively use an EQ as a boost, would you have actively cut the 100hz switch quite a lot to avoid this?

[Greg_L]

I do actually - I've not really played with it much using it as a boost. I got it to use in the loop to tone-shape my Blackstar. Its been sitting in my bucket of bits, patch leads, old pedals and random shit I never use since I got the H&K

Now, using it as a flat boost... most boosts/overdrives etc, shelf off the lows so you don't end up with a flubby mess. If you were going to actively use an EQ as a boost, would you have actively cut the 100hz switch quite a lot to avoid this?

I don't know if all that is necessary. I've used my EQ as a boost and didn't shelve off anything. It was fine. The thing with EQs as boosts is they don't usually have as much push as a dedicated boost pedal so they won't/shouldn't flub out the preamp. An EQ might give you 6-12 db of push. Not bad, but not extreme. A dedicated boost might give you 20-24 db or more in some cases. That's a lot. And if you already have the amp working hard, it will definitely mush out. But anyway, all you gotta do is try it. It costs nothing to take your EQ out of the trash box and give it a spin. And you can roll off the lows if you want.

From what I've read, the EP is flat. And it sounds that way to me. Nothing seemed hyped to my ears. It sounded like the true signal, just more of it. The amp responded wonderfully. It has a "bright switch" inside, but I've got mine set flat. I don't particularly like the low rolloff of OD pedals. I don't need or want all that "tightening". So flat true clean boost is great to me.

[JD01]

I don't particularly like the low rolloff of OD pedals. I don't need or want all that "tightening". So flat true clean boost is great to me.

Ah, even when I'm doing punk, I tend to play with a bit more gain than you and a more scoopy, American, tone with a bit more chugging so I find the tightening quite handy.

As you said, I'll just get it out of the box and play with it when I get time... part of the appeal of a dedicated clean boost is that it has 1 knob on it, mind!

[Greg_L]

Ah, even when I'm doing punk, I tend to play with a bit more gain than you and a more scoopy, American, tone with a bit more chugging so I find the tightening quite handy.

Most people are surprised when they hear my "base tone" all by itself. When I play live, my friends will be there and I'll do soundcheck and they always comment on how cleanish my sound is by itself when just dicking around. I'm not swimming in flubby gross fizzy gain and effects. It's actually not clean at all - it's just a good solid Marshall crunch. But then once the songs kick off and I'm going 1000 mph and there's bass and drums also present, it sounds just right for the stuff I play.

As you said, I'll just get it out of the box and play with it when I get time... part of the appeal of a dedicated clean boost is that it has 1 knob on it, mind!

Lol. A pedal can have ten knobs, and if you only need one, just use the one.

I have my EQ for same reason as you. I used to have a JCM 900 that benefited from a little EQ help in the loop. But since that amp is long gone, mine just sits there unused most of the time too. Actually, the most use it's gotten lately was when I accidentally hooked it up to a speaker jack on the 800 and blew the pedal to pieces. I got it fixed. I think I'll have time today to do some EQ boosted tones. I'll give it a try using the same setup as the EP clips and see what you think.

[JD01]

I have my EQ for same reason as you. I used to have a JCM 900 that benefited from a little EQ help in the loop. But since that amp is long gone, mine just sits there unused most of the time too. Actually, the most use it's gotten lately was when I accidentally hooked it up to a speaker jack on the 800 and blew the pedal to pieces. I got it fixed. I think I'll have time today to do some EQ boosted tones. I'll give it a try using the same setup as the EP clips and see what you think.

Cheers, that would be excellent actually.

My available time for sitting around just experimenting with stuff is pretty limited right now.

[Greg_L]

Cheers, that would be excellent actually.

My available time for sitting around just experimenting with stuff is pretty limited right now.

Here ya go. I had it still all set up, so I knocked it out quick while the kids tried in vain to watch TV.


Same everything as yesterday's EP clips.


Baseline - no boost

EQ Boost baseline.mp3

Flat EQ - 3 db boost

EQ flat 3db boost.mp3

Flat EQ - 6 db boost

EQ flat 6db boost.mp3

Flat EQ - 9 db boost

EQ flat 9db boost.mp3

Flat EQ - 12 db boost

EQ flat 12db boost.mp3

Low end roll off - 12 db boost

EQ 12db boost low rolloff.mp3

[Greg_L]

This is the roll off....

20181120_112043.jpg

[Minerman]

Okay you sumbitches. Here's my first nasty foray into the Xotic EP Booster.

Disclaimer....I used a cab/speaker and mic combo that I pretty much never use.

Les Paul Traditional - Muttpup Gerg Custom hot-PAF-ish humpukers
Marshall JMP 2204
All volume and EQ controls on 5
Carvin something or other 4x12
Celestion G12T-75 - Senn e609 on grill, on axis, halfway across cone
No EQ or FX in DAW

So see what you think of this garbage.

I like it man, seems like it's pretty transparent compared to the SD-1 & TS pedals...There's not much if any low end taken away with it like the other 2 pedals too, which is something I don't care much for...All the EP clips are pretty consistent, they do get dirtier & raunchier, but not like the od/boost pedals I'm used to hearing...It sounds more natural compared to the other 2 to my ears...