The Tone Thread

[JD01]

They sound close enough. You're worrying too much about "matched pair" for overheads. Worry about phase more than having a matched pair.

+1


When and where is it absolutely necessary to have a matched pair? What is the purpose?

I think people who are taking care of the absolute details in good studios might have cause to have a proper matched pair.
I don't - I just want a pair of mics that sound pretty much the same to use as drum overheads.

[Greg_L]

+1


When and where is it absolutely necessary to have a matched pair? What is the purpose?

Mic manufacturers want you to think you need a matched pair. What that tells me is that they can't make a line of mics that is similar from one to the next. Their QC is so bad that they have to go through a special process to make two mics sound similar.

We know that isn't really true, a 57 sounds like a 57 most of the time, so it's mostly just hype. It's a good idea when stereo miking to have two mics that are identical. But it's not a deal breaker. I bet I can throw two different overhead mics up and none of you would even know.

[JD01]

+1


When and where is it absolutely necessary to have a matched pair? What is the purpose?

Mic manufacturers want you to think you need a matched pair. What that tells me is that they can't make a line of mics that is similar from one to the next. Their QC is so bad that they have to go through a special process to make two mics sound similar.

We know that isn't really true, a 57 sounds like a 57 most of the time, so it's mostly just hype. It's a good idea when stereo miking to have two mics that are identical. But it's not a deal breaker. I bet I can throw two different overhead mics up and none of you would even know.

That’s probably true... in fact I’m sure it’s true. But you’re good at recording drums and you know what you’re doing. I’m gonna struggle with this, I don’t want to make it harder for myself.

[Greg_L]

That’s probably true... in fact I’m sure it’s true. But you’re good at recording drums and you know what you’re doing. I’m gonna struggle with this, I don’t want to make it harder for myself.

I'm not suggesting you do goofy things, but you have two C1000s. That's good enough. They don't have to be made at the same time from the same batch of parts in the same sweatshop. Just being the same mic is good enough.

[JD01]

Yeah. And I can’t tell the difference between how they sound

[Greg_L]

Yeah. And I can’t tell the difference between how they sound

The two overhead mics potentially sounding microscopically different are the least of your worries.

[JD01]

Sounds pretty wild JD when you start all three tracks playing at random intervals...

haha, yeah - I did that too. Its just an E, Esus4 and Esus2, so they kind of work. Very odd.

[liv_rong]

Just a little sketch I got carried away with, mixed and all with the new LP.

No eq or comp or anything on guitars, just panning and whatever pedals I was using. Mic'd with a 57 on my cab playing lower volumes on the 10 watt setting on the amp.

I am loving this guitar

[Minerman]

Cool Liv...I was gonna tell you the guitar looks great in your thread, but I'll just say it here dude...It looks very, very nice...

Ain't it great when you get a piece of gear you really like, & it makes you wanna play??? Sounds good dude...

[Lt. Bob]

Just a little sketch I got carried away with, mixed and all with the new LP.

No eq or comp or anything on guitars, just panning and whatever pedals I was using. Mic'd with a 57 on my cab playing lower volumes on the 10 watt setting on the amp.

I am loving this guitar

man .... I love your shit.
We really need to talk about me playing some sax over something like this

[JD01]

Liv, this is great idea.

It all sounds really good too. Looking forward to seeing where you take this one.

[Greg_L]

Just a little sketch I got carried away with, mixed and all with the new LP.

No eq or comp or anything on guitars, just panning and whatever pedals I was using. Mic'd with a 57 on my cab playing lower volumes on the 10 watt setting on the amp.

I am loving this guitar

Cool dude. How's the noise with those P90s?

[liv_rong]

Cool Liv...I was gonna tell you the guitar looks great in your thread, but I'll just say it here dude...It looks very, very nice...

Ain't it great when you get a piece of gear you really like, & it makes you wanna play??? Sounds good dude...

Thanks!

man .... I love your shit.
We really need to talk about me playing some sax over something like this

Man, thanks! Glad you like my stuff, at least someone besides me does! If you ever hear something that tickles your fancy for sax let me know!

Cool dude. How's the noise with those P90s?

Noise seems to be on par with my other LP actually. But I still havent cranked my amp with this guitar, so we'll see.

[liv_rong]

Liv, this is great idea.

It all sounds really good too. Looking forward to seeing where you take this one.

Thanks!

[Greg_L]

Today I did some experiments in pedal/effect order...

You may recall I built that fuzz pedal a few months ago. Today I was curious to see if it sounded different before vs. after other effects. I've got a DigiTech RP255 (multi-effects unit) to play with as far as effects go (plus that boost/od I built after I built the fuzz, but wasn't using it today). And my amp, an Vox early-gen modeling amp (AD30VT) has some on-board effects.

The set-up was this:

- tele-clone, bridge pickup, tone/vol both rolled off a touch from 100%
- RP255: set up a moderate chorus, EQ (bass boosted a touch, mids boosted quite a bit, treble cut a smidge)
- the Fuzz pedal (it has only a level knob)
- the amp in one of the "clean" models, and the on-board delay (set to a medium-ish delay time and not swimming in repeats)
- all piped into an on-axis SM57, at the grille, and pointed at the dustcap/cone seam

The experiment consisted of swapping the order of the multi-effects (chorus/eq) unit and the fuzz pedal.

1. guitar -> multi-effects pedal -> fuzz pedal -> amp -> mic
2. guitar -> fuzz pedal -> multi-effects pedal -> amp -> mic

The clips:

crunchyVsSynthyFuzz.mp3
(EDIT: fixed the attachment)

Part one sounds "crunchy" to me, while part two sounds "synthy". Probably because having the fuzz last in the chain before hitting the amp let all the high-frequency junk it generates go unaltered right into the amp.

I prefer the first one, but it's good to know how to set this up if I ever need a more synth-like tone. (And now you know too...and knowing is half the battle...? )

Interesting. Chorus after the fuzz definitely has a sawtooth synth-like sound. Pretty cool.

[Greg_L]

Thanks for the suggestions. My amp is pretty limited -- no f/x loop. But with the fuzz out front, and the amp set to a clean model, it's kind of like the fuzz takes the place of pre-amp gain stage, and other effects between the fuzz and the amp function the f/x loop.

Anyway, this is all just an experiment anyway, and to test some of the "conventional wisdom" of pedal order myself. The majority of the articles I've seen discussing order of effects says to put the fuzz very first in the chain, unless you have a) a tuner or b) a wah pedal. The conventional wisdom may be "wrong" for me, my preferences, and for the equipment I have. It's all *often* about finding what works for yourself, right?

Another thing I've found is that I suck at judging and choosing tones in isolation; if I throw things in a mix, I'm likely to make a different (and usually better) choice. One of the downsides of trying to do everything yourself, right? ha! So, without further ado, here's a couple scratch tracks/mixes from today. Similar set-up as before (though I use no chorus from the multi-fx this time): one has guitar->multifx->fuzz->amp, the other has guitar->fuzz->multifx->amp:

untitled_20180729b.mp3

untitled_20180729b-fuzzy.mp3

This time I've come to the same conclusion: I like the fuzz right in front of the amp, and if the fuzz goes into the multi-fx pedal first, it sounds too "synthy" to me. (Maybe the multi-fx is the problem child here...hmmmm. )

I think you're just dialing up too much fuzz. Reduce the fuzz but add a little more crunch in the amp. I think you'll get a sweeter fuzz tone that way.

[rayc]

Lively Lov or swap a vowel - you get the idea.

[WhiskeyJack]

I want to listen sound clips but i am in Victoria Secret with the wife currently... it may have to wait. Ill listen in the car in a few.

[JD01]

I want to listen sound clips but i am in Victoria Secret with the wife currently... it may have to wait. Ill listen in the car in a few.

pics?

[WhiskeyJack]

I want to listen sound clips but i am in Victoria Secret with the wife currently... it may have to wait. Ill listen in the car in a few.

pics?

I tried but they threw me out of the mall.