The Tone Thread

[JD01]

It is nice to have actually knobs to turn rather than adjusting things using a mouse on the screen and you don't have to be at your computer to plug in and play.

Yes you do unless you opt for the power amp version and have a cab to go with it. And by then....you might as well have a real amp.

Ah, I figured you could use headphones.

There is a difference to a real amp though in that a Kemper is potentially any amp you want it to be. So while a powered Kemper is expensive its also potentially very good value for money. Was discussing this with Armistice before when I was working out what amp to get... I just don't want to go down the Kemper route , it just doesn't appeal.

I remember one of the guys on That Pedal Show (and he's got good ears) saying that he doesn't care if he can't tell the difference in sound between a Kemper and his tube amp - it just doesn't appeal to him.

[Greg_L]

Lol. Nothing screams rock and roll like playing through headphones.

It's all nonsense to me. Kempers are very good for what they are and the technology is amazing and I don't knock anyone for using one, but I can shoot a hole right through any "pro" anyone can come up with for using one. I'm always thinking "how or why would you use this live?" That's what's important to me. Making real sound. I can't wrap my head around using something like that for recording only.

[Minerman]

Lol. Nothing screams rock and roll like playing through headphones.

Yes...I agree dude...
I'm glad you guys are here for me when I need my sanity check, I do this shit every few months, so thanks...

I just get so frustrated because of my situation, I've got a nice little "studio" here, but it seems every motherfuckin' time I wanna do something, the noise thing rears it's ugly fuckin' head...Both of my little amps sound great, the little Marshall is kind of a 1 trick pony, but it does that one trick really well, & the little EVH amp IMO is hard to beat for high gain sounds, for the 80's stuff it smokes the Mini Jubilee on it's own/without a boost/help...

I've got great speakers, fairly good mics, overall, I've got a great little collection of gear, but again, the noise jumps up & rips the heart out of anything I try to do...The ISO cab does fair, & it does allow me to use this stuff, but lately it feels & sounds like everything I end up with is neutered...

I think my biggest problem is I know what would sound the best with the gear I have, it's just having to restrain myself because I'm just a long-haired, noisy motherfucker when it's all said & done...

Some of the Kemper vids I've watched simply sound great to me, I'm sure most if not all are "doctored" after the fact, but they still sound awesome IMO...

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFc4VJdRDeI[/BBvideo]

I "mapped" out the tones I thought stood out in this, & put the amps' names they're supposed to sound like (which doesn't mean anything, but anyway):
2:35 ÷/13
3:25 '69 Marshall
7:35 Dumble
9:55 Friedman BE
11:55 Little Walter
15:15 Jubilee
20:35 Soldano

I thought even with a telecaster, the 2 Marshall profiles in this sounded great, especially the Jubilee...Again, I'm sure there's tweaking done post-recording in these, but again, they sound really good, to me...

I'm gonna throw up some clips this evening to see what you guys think about 'em, & hopefully I can pull myself out of this rut...again...

[WhiskeyJack]

I have two comments.

1. I hear his strings clacking away in the background and that drives me insane. I don't know how to feel about that. Was that intentional? Like is he trying to show us that you can get "Cranked to 11" tones at really low levels?

I'm sure most if not all are "doctored" after the fact, but they still sound awesome IMO...

2. If doctoring a sim tone was ok and something you wanted do as an extra step why would you go shopping for a Kemper? not criticizing, just generally curious is all. Why not use amplitube and doctor it? I get we are all going for the "get it right at the source" but if you were going to Dr. a tone in the daw, why not just keep it all in the daw and not break your wallet. I think you even have the full blown turbo pack of Amplitube yes? if i recall?

Someone like you could DEFINITELY get some banging tones out of amplitube. Only my opinion here based on how i use it which is very limited, in comparison to how hard you have worked over the years to get your minersound.

No sense in buying another dishwasher if you already have a dishwasher that works. Only my two cents buddy.

[Minerman]

I have two comments.

1. I hear his strings clacking away in the background and that drives me insane. I don't know how to feel about that. Was that intentional? Like is he trying to show us that you can get "Cranked to 11" tones at really low levels?

I'm sure most if not all are "doctored" after the fact, but they still sound awesome IMO...

2. If doctoring a sim tone was ok and something you wanted do as an extra step why would you go shopping for a Kemper? not criticizing, just generally curious is all. Why not use amplitube and doctor it? I get we are all going for the "get it right at the source" but if you were going to Dr. a tone in the daw, why not just keep it all in the daw and not break your wallet. I think you even have the full blown turbo pack of Amplitube yes? if i recall?

Someone like you could DEFINITELY get some banging tones out of amplitube. Only my opinion here based on how i use it which is very limited, in comparison to how hard you have worked over the years to get your minersound.

No sense in buying another dishwasher if you already have a dishwasher that works. Only my two cents buddy.

Thanks Shan, I'm sure you guys notice I go through this every so often...I think it's a combination of having more time than I've ever had to do whatever (I'm not bitching, I know I'm very fortunate to have this), the desire to have stellar guitar tones, being very fortunate to have the little "studio", & being a complete, full-blown gear whore thanks to my buddies here...


Tones are on the way...

[WhiskeyJack]

I have two comments.

1. I hear his strings clacking away in the background and that drives me insane. I don't know how to feel about that. Was that intentional? Like is he trying to show us that you can get "Cranked to 11" tones at really low levels?



2. If doctoring a sim tone was ok and something you wanted do as an extra step why would you go shopping for a Kemper? not criticizing, just generally curious is all. Why not use amplitube and doctor it? I get we are all going for the "get it right at the source" but if you were going to Dr. a tone in the daw, why not just keep it all in the daw and not break your wallet. I think you even have the full blown turbo pack of Amplitube yes? if i recall?

Someone like you could DEFINITELY get some banging tones out of amplitube. Only my opinion here based on how i use it which is very limited, in comparison to how hard you have worked over the years to get your minersound.

No sense in buying another dishwasher if you already have a dishwasher that works. Only my two cents buddy.

Thanks Shan, I'm sure you guys notice I go through this every so often...I think it's a combination of having more time than I've ever had to do whatever (I'm not bitching, I know I'm very fortunate to have this), the desire to have stellar guitar tones, being very fortunate to have the little "studio", & being a complete, full-blown gear whore thanks to my buddies here...


Tones are on the way...

Totally get it.

[Minerman]

Ok, a couple days late, but here's something I've been working on...Guitars, bass & drums...The guitars are panned & have reverb on 'em, but nothing else...

Signal chain:
SG > 2525H/EVH LBX > G12H > i5/e609

One side is the Mini Jubilee & the other is the EVH LBX, both amps ran through the same speaker with the exact same mic placements...



Drums are basically placeholders/my click, & may be a bit loud...

Lemme know what you guys think...

[Greg_L]

Ok, a couple days late, but here's something I've been working on...Guitars, bass & drums...The guitars are panned & have reverb on 'em, but nothing else...

Signal chain:
SG > 2525H/EVH LBX > G12H > i5/e609

One side is the Mini Jubilee & the other is the EVH LBX, both amps ran through the same speaker with the exact same mic placements...



Drums are basically placeholders/my click, & may be a bit loud...

Lemme know what you guys think...

I like it, but I think you need to trade some bass for more mids. The guitars sound pretty scooped....and I know that speaker aint scooped.

[JD01]

I think the guitars sound great on this Miner. Yeah, its pretty scoopy, but its not bad scoopy, in a "all the gain, no volume" bedroom tone kind of way, its a good scooped tone. It does disappear into the background a little when the band comes in though - I don't know whether thats the tone or the mix.

[Minerman]

I like it, but I think you need to trade some bass for more mids. The guitars sound pretty scooped....and I know that speaker aint scooped.

Thanks Greg...I'm slowly coming to realize the ISO cab is a whole different animal than a regular cab sitting in the room...

I don't think I touched the amps' settings after I recorded this, so here's where they are:

Mini Jubilee:

• 20w mode
  Presence: 7
  Bass: 7.5
  Mid: 7.5
  Treble: 6
  Master Output: 8
  Lead Master: 4
  Input Gain: 4

EVH LBX:

• 15w mode
  Red channel
  Resonance: 0
  Gain: 1
  Bass: 5
  Mid: 5
  Treble: 6
  Volume: 4
  Presence: 6

The settings on the Mini J that are ".5" could go a point or two either way, that amp's eq response is crazy sensitive, & just touching the knob(s) will change the sound, especially the mid knob...It seems like it doesn't do a damn thing until it hits about "6", but anything past "8" or so just sounds nasal & shitty to me...I gotta say, this is a very weird little Marshall amp, & you were spot on saying it's a red-headed step child in the Marshall family...

I've been thinking seriously about buying an eq pedal to throw in the loop of this amp...

I think the guitars sound great on this Miner. Yeah, its pretty scoopy, but its not bad scoopy, in a "all the gain, no volume" bedroom tone kind of way, its a good scooped tone. It does disappear into the background a little when the band comes in though - I don't know whether thats the tone or the mix.

Thanks Jdude, most likely it's the tone...


I still have Reaper open, so I'm gonna solo the guitars & post 'em up...Gimme a minute or two...

[Greg_L]

Ha, I thought that was the isocab but wasn't sure. It has a lot of beefy resonance. That might be the cab masking the mids maybe, I don't know. 7.5 mids on a Jubilee should be mid madness!

[JD01]

EVH LBX:

Gain: 1

WTF?!?! How much gain is actually available!

I found an EQ pedal in the loop really handy with my Blackstar - in fact I couldn't play without one.

[Minerman]

Ha, I thought that was the isocab but wasn't sure. It has a lot of beefy resonance. That might be the cab masking the mids maybe, I don't know. 7.5 mids on a Jubilee should be mid madness!

Yeah man, that's what I keep saying about this ISO cab, I think the frequencies are cancelling each other out...I've noticed with the EVH amp in particular, when I go to turn the volume up, it cuts a lot of the high end, when it really shouldn't...It's just the same thing I've fought for years, a speaker in a small box fighting against itself...

[Minerman]

EVH LBX:

Gain: 1

WTF?!?! How much gain is actually available!

I found an EQ pedal in the loop really handy with my Blackstar - in fact I couldn't play without one.

Way more gain than even I'd ever use Jdude...I've got lower gain tubes in a couple slots to tame it down too...

The red channel has way more gain regardless, but with the lower gain tubes, the blue channel is a bit more versatile, I can get the gain up to about "5", & it's still fairly usable...

[Minerman]

*Edit* - I've been using my ART Tube MP for my guitar di's, can't really tell if it adds anything except a little noise, but it does allow me to have 3 inputs going at once...

Ok, here are the solo'd guitars, I centered the panning & turned the reverb off...



Mini Jubilee:

• 20w mode
  Presence: 7
  Bass: 7.5
  Mid: 7.5
  Treble: 6
  Master Output: 8
  Lead Master: 4
  Input Gain: 4

EVH LBX:

• 15w mode
  Red channel
  Resonance: 0
  Gain: 1
  Bass: 5
  Mid: 5
  Treble: 6
  Volume: 4
  Presence: 6

[WhiskeyJack]

Yeah man, that's what I keep saying about this ISO cab, I think the frequencies are cancelling each other out...I

I can't help but think that an iso cab requires a bit more thought. I mean if the sounds isn't escaping as it normally would then what is the sound doing on the inside. Maybe you just have a your mics in that magical little sweet spot where there is some cancellation. What if you just started nudging mics around in there by like, millimeters and see what happens?

Some one like me who is not a high gain guy i would consider these both really great sounds on their own but would be worried when bass gets added.

[Minerman]

I can't help but think that an iso cab requires a bit more thought.

That's my problem dude, I'm brain-dead...

I mean if the sounds isn't escaping as it normally would then what is the sound doing on the inside. Maybe you just have a your mics in that magical little sweet spot where there is some cancellation. What if you just started nudging mics around in there by like, millimeters and see what happens?

Some one like me who is not a high gain guy i would consider these both really great sounds on their own but would be worried when bass gets added.

I have done exactly what you're suggesting, plus 1,000,000 other things, & it's still a "guess as I go" kinda thing...The mic placement works just like my 4x12 to a point, but after that, it's just guesswork for me...

[WhiskeyJack]

I can't help but think that an iso cab requires a bit more thought.

That's my problem dude, I'm brain-dead...

I mean if the sounds isn't escaping as it normally would then what is the sound doing on the inside. Maybe you just have a your mics in that magical little sweet spot where there is some cancellation. What if you just started nudging mics around in there by like, millimeters and see what happens?

Some one like me who is not a high gain guy i would consider these both really great sounds on their own but would be worried when bass gets added.

I have done exactly what you're suggesting, plus 1,000,000 other things, & it's still a "guess as I go" kinda thing...The mic placement works just like my 4x12 to a point, but after that, it's just guesswork for me...

I am just guessing too man. I think thats the beauty of capturing some good sounds.

I am not going to lie to you guys. The whole reason i considered changing the way i mic my cab now is partially because of my dog. She bumped the mic stand on me and i thought

"you know what, let's just leave it there and see what happens"

Game Changer. granted i didn't love the off axis kind of sound but she also bumped it back and that really opened up the tone of the Orange at least and got rid of some of the darkness and added a bit of tinkle to it.

Maybe you just need my dog to come down there and give you a hand with that minernuggs?

[Greg_L]

Lol. Fucking Gilly!

[WhiskeyJack]

Lol. Fucking Gilly!