The Tone Thread

[rammer24]

It seems the ECC81 tube was the problem -

He is a problem. Especially when he's talking to Graaawwwww.

[Greg_L]

It seems the ECC81 tube was the problem - with the retaining sleeve off I could see that it glowed a bit, not as brightly as the unsleeved power tube but no sound passed through. I popped out the tube and put in a 5751 that is 70% of the optimum power as compared with the ECC81 which is/was 60%. Quick test & it passes a signal.
I'll communicate with the company about duds and refunds - the tube/valve only did about 3 hr work in total.
I will give the amp a proper run through once I've done the things I need to do today.

Ha good I'm glad you found the problem.

Tube quality can be pretty iffy these days.

[Minerman]

Ray: Great to hear that only a tube was the culprit...I've been pretty fortunate with the tubes I have, but most are older that I bought from a guy who has a tester & was/is into that stuff up to his neck...



In other news, I'm seriously thinking of selling my EVH amp, EVH cab, & Marshall cab...I absolutely love using a real amp, cab & mic, but I can't use 'em the way they're intended...The reason I'm thinking of selling all that is to fund a digital unit, most likely a Kemper...I've been doing a lot of reading up on the better units, & to me, the Kemper seems like the best thing going right now...

While I do have tons of software (AT3/4, Revalver, etc), I'm just not sold on going back to that, so I'm considering something that 's supposed to be better...The Fractal units seem like they're damn good too, but they're also damn expensive like the Kemper...The Line 6 Helix just doesn't impress me at all...To me, the newer Line 6 products aren't much better than the POD X3Live I had for years, & I want something better...

I know this is a compromise, actually a hell of a compromise for me considering I made the jump to real amps, & have a lot of time/effort/$$$ invested, but it's killin' me not being able to use my amp the way it's intended...I'm still not completely sold on anything except a real amp/speaker/mic, so I've still got a lot of digging on this to do...

[Greg_L]

Ray: Great to hear that only a tube was the culprit...I've been pretty fortunate with the tubes I have, but most are older that I bought from a guy who has a tester & was/is into that stuff up to his neck...



In other news, I'm seriously thinking of selling my EVH amp, EVH cab, & Marshall cab...I absolutely love using a real amp, cab & mic, but I can't use 'em the way they're intended...The reason I'm thinking of selling all that is to fund a digital unit, most likely a Kemper...I've been doing a lot of reading up on the better units, & to me, the Kemper seems like the best thing going right now...

While I do have tons of software (AT3/4, Revalver, etc), I'm just not sold on going back to that, so I'm considering something that 's supposed to be better...The Fractal units seem like they're damn good too, but they're also damn expensive like the Kemper...The Line 6 Helix just doesn't impress me at all...To me, the newer Line 6 products aren't much better than the POD X3Live I had for years, & I want something better...

I know this is a compromise, actually a hell of a compromise for me considering I made the jump to real amps, & have a lot of time/effort/$$$ invested, but it's killin' me not being able to use my amp the way it's intended...I'm still not completely sold on anything except a real amp/speaker/mic, so I've still got a lot of digging on this to do...

Save your money and just use sims and cab emulation. Kempers are great and all, but are they better in a recording than a good sim and cab impulse? I don't think so. You don't play live, right? A Kemper is the same 1s and 0s as a sim when you're just tracking with it.

[Minerman]

Yeah dude, it blows...I fuckin' hate not being able to use my amp/cab/mics...I've spent a lot of time to get where I'm pretty comfortable saying I can throw a mic up & get a pretty decent tone without much fucking around, it's took a while, but I've improved a hell of a lot...It's mainly a matter of learning the gear...I motherfuckin' hate not being able to use my amp/cab here...

Save your money and just use sims and cab emulation. Kempers are great and all, but are they better in a recording than a good sim and cab impulse? I don't think so. You don't play live, right? A Kemper is the same 1s and 0s as a sim when you're just tracking with it.

Thanks for the advise dude, FWIW, I have the best ampsim (IMO anyway) with Amplitube 4...I know a lot of folks like other/external impulses, but that's the thing I really like about AT4 is the new cab sims, with the ability to choose/change speakers...I also have a shit-load of other ampsims...Each one does something better than others, but none of 'em is the end-all/be-all thing...

I've been looking at Universal Audio's ampsims (Friedman, Marshall, etc), but those are god-damned expensive fuckin' ampsims that are tied into their hardware/interfaces, with an outrageous entry price just to get your foot in the door...$900 for a 2-in x 6-out usb interface that in reality isn't much better than what I have now, just to be able to use their plugins...Fuckin' expensive to put it mildly...And like you say, it's just 1's & 0's, so I don't see their "official" ampsims being that much better than anything else...

I guess I'm guilty of flippin' out again & not seeing the forest for the trees here...

[rammer24]

Here's something I'm working on. I think it will still go through a few changes, even in the arrangement area. I have a feeling I over did it with the stops and starts. There might be too many and it makes it sound like I'm trying too hard to be syncopated and clever. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm as interested in hearing your opinions on the bass tone as well as the guitar tones. I don't know if it's my imagination, but I find the guitar tones a little brittle or spikey even though nothing is really different from the last cuple of tunes I've done. Maybe the song just makes them sound that way, or maybe it's my imagination.

Let me know how it sounds so far.

hey.mp3

[rayc]

Rami,
It sounds cool - I don't think it has too many stops. Predictability is often the killer with them - establishing then meeting expectations etc.
I don't think it's brittle - at 1st I thought it might be but I fear that was me being suggestible after reading your post.
The guitars sound cool. The rhythm section is rock solid.I'll leave it to better ears.

[Minerman]

Here's something I'm working on. I think it will still go through a few changes, even in the arrangement area. I have a feeling I over did it with the stops and starts. There might be too many and it makes it sound like I'm trying too hard to be syncopated and clever. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm as interested in hearing your opinions on the bass tone as well as the guitar tones. I don't know if it's my imagination, but I find the guitar tones a little brittle or spikey even though nothing is really different from the last cuple of tunes I've done. Maybe the song just makes them sound that way, or maybe it's my imagination.

Let me know how it sounds so far.hey.mp3

Sounds pretty good Rami, I like the bass tone myself, that's an area I'm pretty weak with myself...I don't hear anything spikey on my end, just the cocked-wah thing in spots, but I'm about 100% sure that's just your playing dude...Nothing wrong with the cocked-wah thing, so don't take it as a nit, it sounds good...

Are u still using ampsims dude??? If you are there's hope for me yet...

On the bass, maybe needs a cunt-hair of really low "sub"end, but again, that's something I struggle with...

As far as the stops/syncopated thing, I was sitting behind my kit, but after I listened to this I threw my sticks across the room...

[rammer24]

Sounds pretty good Rami, I like the bass tone myself, that's an area I'm pretty weak with myself...I don't hear anything spikey on my end, just the cocked-wah thing in spots, but I'm about 100% sure that's just your playing dude...Nothing wrong with the cocked-wah thing, so don't take it as a nit, it sounds good...

Are u still using ampsims dude??? If you are there's hope for me yet...

On the bass, maybe needs a cunt-hair of really low "sub"end, but again, that's something I struggle with...

As far as the stops/syncopated thing, I was sitting behind my kit, but after I listened to this I threw my sticks across the room...

HA! Don't break any windows with those sticks.

I'll check out the bass. I think it's really important in this tune.

I'm using Amplitube 3 on this with one of Greg's speaker impulses. Can't remember which one, but I only use the ones from the "SM57" folder.

Thanx dude!

[rammer24]

Fuck, I lost my response to Ray. I just typed it all out and lost it when Miner posted.

Anyway, thanx Ray.

I was saying that things may still change in this song. It's one of my rare tunes that I wrote without any vocal ideas, no lyric ideas, no hooks, etc...I don't usually work that way, but I had a groove and just built on it.

I fear that was me being suggestible after reading your post.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if I should have said anything, but anyway. People will either hear it or not, I hope.

Thanx dude!

[Minerman]

HA! Don't break any windows with those sticks.
Thanx dude!

I've slacked off on playing a little, but I'm still trying dude...

I'll check out the bass. I think it's really important in this tune.

You may wanna take my bass suggestion with a grain of salt dude, I'm not all that much giving advice on the low end dude...

I'm using Amplitube 3 on this with one of Greg's speaker impulses. Can't remember which one, but I only use the ones from the "SM57" folder.

As bad as I hate it, I'm gonna have to go back to ampsims for a while, I just can't use my amp how it's supposed to be used...I fuckin' hate it, but I gotta do what I gotta do...

[rammer24]

As bad as I hate it, I'm gonna have to go back to ampsims for a while, I just can't use my amp how it's supposed to be used...I fuckin' hate it, but I gotta do what I gotta do...

Well, look on the bright side. For me, I get a lot more recording done because I'm usually up really late and that's when I usually want to record. I can't record a blaring loud amp at 2am, but I can lay down all the guitar tracks I want with sims.

[Greg_L]

I think the rhythm guitar tones are a little too gainy. A little more raw chunky grunt and less gain would do the rhythms better IMO. Lead sounds about perfect. The bass sounds good, and appropriate, but to me it's a little bland. I think the bass could use some character via distortion. Needs a little grit. It's too clean.

[rammer24]

I think the rhythm guitar tones are a little too gainy. A little more raw chunky grunt and less gain would do the rhythms better IMO. Lead sounds about perfect. The bass sounds good, and appropriate, but to me it's a little bland. I think the bass could use some character via distortion. Needs a little grit. It's too clean.

Cool man. I had a feeling there was something about the rythms that could be better. I've put distortion on bass, but I know many people do when it's needed. I'll try it. Thanx Greg.

[Minerman]

Well, look on the bright side. For me, I get a lot more recording done because I'm usually up really late and that's when I usually want to record. I can't record a blaring loud amp at 2am, but I can lay down all the guitar tracks I want with sims.

Yes dude, that is a super duper feature ampsims have, they're great for the silent thing...

I get all spazzed out over nothing really, I shouldn't get that way but I do...I just can't make up my damn mind about things sometime, I have the "what if?" syndrome, worrying over nothing 99% of the time...

This is a good way to add some grit on your bass:

TSE BOD3

It's a free simulated version of the Tech 21 Sansamp pedal...I've used the previous versions, but haven't tried this one yet...It should be good as the other TSE plugins are great IMO...

[rammer24]

Awesome, Miner. I just downloaded and will try it out. I love new toys. But, like a 5 yeard old, I usually play with a new one for about a song and then go back to my tried and trustedplug-ins. But once in a while, a new one becomes part of the stable, so let's see how it goes with this one.


On another note, I re-tracked the rythm guitars for the instrumental I posted above. There was something weird going on because I just re-tracked with every single thing the same and they sound way better. I think what happened when I tracked originally is I had an EQ engaged in my "Record" chanel. That's the only thing I can think of. Anyway, I think the rythms sound smoother now. They were ice-picky before for whatever reason.

hey.mp3

[Greg_L]

Yeah that's way better on the guitars.

[rammer24]

Weird, eh? I obviously had something engaged that shouldn't have been. I didn't a thing.

[Greg_L]

Weird, eh? I obviously had something engaged that shouldn't have been. I didn't a thing.

That is weird. But you're a weird guy.

[rammer24]

So, it cancels out? No wonder so many weird things happen to me. It's normal.