Nut slotting files

[muttley]

@WhiskeyJack

I like how you got some new Police radios for Christmas too.

Did you check the steel rule was true? I say that because I know someone who did exactly what you did then couldn't work out why his setups were all wonky... The rule was about 2mm out end to end.

The best fret leveling tool I have is a flat diamond stone about 9 inch long. It also serves as a top drawer sharpening stone as intended. Well worth the investment if you move on for the level.

.........

After building that chess board i have a new, very deep appreciation for ensuring that everything is square and true before I really get going.

That is the key to all good cabinetry.

[JD01]

That reminds me... I need to box in some pipework in my downstairs bog.

[muttley]

That reminds me... I need to box in some pipework in my downstairs bog.

lol. Me too.

[Armistice]

I've got frets that are worse than those and they're not really a problem yet.

You should play more blues... lots more string bending and you'll level the frets out yourself...

[muttley]

If you do get some fret crowning files don't do it like in the ad that just passed by my news feed lol.

[WhiskeyJack]

I just caved and bought a set off stew mac for medium gauges strings. I have run into something where i need them and i don't want to borrow them off my mate again. Plus the sparrow will need need the slots adjusted again when i fix that first fret on it. So i think this is a good investment at this point.

Which reminds me, @muttley if I were to shop for a fret crowing file would i need a specific one for a stainless steel fret? Is there a file out there that does all type of frets effectively? When I place a straight edge on the neck and slide it towards the nut, it stops at the first fret. to me this means that that fret is to high. Correct? So to correctly adjust that I'd need something like a crowning file to slowly remove some stock until everything levels out and acts as it should? I don't think I'll be able to make use of my homemade fret leveler, because the fret that is too high is the first fret after the nut. If I were to use that I would effectively be lowering a fret somewhere further down the neck correct?

[muttley]

Don't worry too much about the first fret. as long as it isn't wildly high. The nut slots should be cut to around the same height as the first fret. A high fret will only cause issue to the previous frets not those ahead of it. If you do need a crowning file then get the best you can afford. They will all crown stainless frets and unless you are doing loads of work then you wont blunt it quickly. Stainless are a PITA in truth, I hate them, both to work on and play on.

If you do need to level frets then you dont use a crowning file, that comes later. You use a dead flat file/beam/diamond stone, I use the later. Only when all the frets are level do you break out the crown files and then polish then.

I have a load of crowning files but Hosco are by far the best.

[WhiskeyJack]

Don't worry too much about the first fret. as long as it isn't wildly high. The nut slots should be cut to around the same height as the first fret. A high fret will only cause issue to the previous frets not those ahead of it. If you do need a crowning file then get the best you can afford. They will all crown stainless frets and unless you are doing loads of work then you wont blunt it quickly. Stainless are a PITA in truth, I hate them, both to work on and play on.

If you do need to level frets then you dont use a crowning file, that comes later. You use a dead flat file/beam/diamond stone, I use the later. Only when all the frets are level do you break out the crown files and then polish then.

I have a load of crowning files but Hosco are by far the best.

Ok cool. Cheers. I have a bunch of Hosco stuff in my wishlist so this is good to know. A lot of folks speak very highly of them so i think i will just stop searching for better deals and just start grabbing hosco when I see them.

I think I still may try to take a stab at correcting the first fret though. Correct me if I am wrong certainly, see the detail below for a bit more clarity. Now, despite my efforts earlier last year to correct the nut slot height on one of my guitars, even after all the work and time i put into it, I was still having issues where when i played a power chord on the first fret or a full F chord, i'd still see the same sharp metering on the tuner in that position as i did before i even started the exercise. I could get the open strings and harmonics and 12th fret position and below to about the 5th postion either bang on or so damn close i could give it a pass, but soon as i fretted that first position on all strings ... sharp... by enough that i was just put off by my efforts.

It didn't change despite the lowering of the slots? Up the board things improved mostly overall but the first and second frets not so much at all. and thrid was iffy, So in my mind, if i were to get that fret down with the rest of them, reproject the radius on the face of the nut, fix the slots, give it another good set up i should see better results? Am I wrong in thinking this way Mutt?

Perhaps this exaggerated diagram will shed morel ight on to what I am trying to explain. My theory stems from my experiencing in my profession of seeing what error in an angle can throw something out by. I have dealt with many an angry landowner wanting fences and boundaries moved becasue of previous surveys done by lazy surveyors and improper rounding on plans. Anyways, All the frets were level, except for the first one. When i put the pencil down, to make my marks, i have error immediately and no way to correct it with out first fixing that first fret. to me this explains why i saw a great improvement in everything past the third or fourth fret but not below it. because my half pencil came to rest on either the forth or 5th fret but also on the incorrect height of the very first one, which gave me an incorrect point of reference to lower slots to. as well as having the wrong height of the first fret? Compound error.

Right?





if i had have been more astute i should have caught the error at the first fret before doing anything.

[muttley]

That diagram would be an excessive instance like I said. Please don't take this the wrong way but I cant help but feel you are going down a rabbit hole here by over thinking it when maybe some work on getting the rest of the important detail right. That is about improving your practical skills and diagnosis skills. Again, I aint having a pop at you just sounding my opinion. The simple things need to be addressed and understood first. In this instance they would be that the amount of extra tension introduced by fretting the first fret would only throw out the note sounded at the first fret Unless it is excessively high). The other frets would sound as they do. Temperament and tuning is ALWAYS a compromise, get it right at one place on the fret board and it throws off elsewhere. What you are aiming to achieve is to spread those naturally occurring variances across the whole fingerboard. You do that by getting the saddles and relief right for the action and relief and live with it. Yes the nut plays into that but I cant recall ever seeing a high fret result in significant intonation issues in 35 years of doing this. Now... as I said earlier and in my other post, if the first fret is so high that it is excessive it needs to be addressed. I rarely see that because when you crown frets you are not taking a whole lot off to get them level. I would first work out how high that fret is compared to the others and get back to me.

[WhiskeyJack]

That diagram would be an excessive instance like I said. Please don't take this the wrong way but I cant help but feel you are going down a rabbit hole here by over thinking it when maybe some work on getting the rest of the important detail right. That is about improving your practical skills and diagnosis skills. Again, I aint having a pop at you just sounding my opinion. The simple things need to be addressed and understood first. In this instance they would be that the amount of extra tension introduced by fretting the first fret would only throw out the note sounded at the first fret Unless it is excessively high). The other frets would sound as they do. Temperament and tuning is ALWAYS a compromise, get it right at one place on the fret board and it throws off elsewhere. What you are aiming to achieve is to spread those naturally occurring variances across the whole fingerboard. You do that by getting the saddles and relief right for the action and relief and live with it. Yes the nut plays into that but I cant recall ever seeing a high fret result in significant intonation issues in 35 years of doing this. Now... as I said earlier and in my other post, if the first fret is so high that it is excessive it needs to be addressed. I rarely see that because when you crown frets you are not taking a whole lot off to get them level. I would first work out how high that fret is compared to the others and get back to me.

no thats fair enough, that's why i presented it to you. you'd know best. Makes sense. I'll see what i can come up with for measurements for you. I likely am going down a rabbit hole. I have suspicions that maybe the bridge is not in the right place which is far out my wheels house. ever since i have owned this this and prior to addressing the possible nut issues, my compromise was all the saddles were cranked back and flipped so i could get them as far as they could go and that still had issues.

I'll reaccess and send measurements. Again this is far down on my list of things to do. I have made this guitar we are discussing my "B" tuned guitar and at that tuning who cares anymore!!!