The Tone Thread

[JD01]

I do know that plugged into a Plexi, the neck wood doesn't fucking matter at all.

That's the important bit! Its not like you're going to sit there finger picking in front of a condenser.

[Greg_L]

That's the important bit! Its not like you're going to sit there finger picking in front of a condenser.

That's what I'm always saying about "tonewoods". Who cares? Once you plug an electric guitar into an amp, like you're supposed to, none of that shit fucking matters. Why do my two Les Pauls sound different unplugged? I don't fucking know. Maybe it's the neck wood. Maybe it's the weight. Maybe it's the fretboards. Maybe it's the frets. Maybe it's the age. Maybe it's the inlays! I don't know or care why it is because I don't fucking play them unplugged. I plug them into amps, and then none of that stuff matters anymore.

What does matter? Pickups. Pickups really fucking matter.

[JD01]

Yeah - I've chatted to Ben Crowe and I think I've chatted to Mutt about it too. They're both of the mind that while nuts, bridges, woods, pots and construction etc all make a difference when plugged in - its a very small difference in comparison to pickups.

Its pretty hard to A/B unless you can be arsed to go swapping out pickups and making sure that the hights are identical... and placebo seems to be a pretty powerful effect with tones too!

[JD01]

I just recorded L&R tracks of that piece I put up a week or so ago with the overly weird tremolo on it - now in full song arrangement - L is the tele with the tremelo reigned in a bit and mono, right is the LP via a Evil Robot profile, and I noticed as I was tracking that I was getting slight "feedback" on the LP every now and then - pretty hard to do with a Kemper at lowish volume through studio monitors, but nonetheless it's there.

Trying to decide if I'll get away with it once I add bass and vox. It's generally a noisy tune so it's probably not out of place. I probably SHOULD redo it but it's too late tonight. Bugger.

Also surprised, having not touched the Lester for a while, how much easier it was to play what's actually a pretty complicated guitar bit - lots of right hand double stop finger work as well as mute picking, and legato runs in the chorus, on the shorter scale guitar. So much easier.

Leave the feedback in, mate! I'd love your music to sound a bit wilder and more aggressive.

My lanky Alien Facehugger fingers trip over eachother when trying to play lead on shorter scale guitars.

[Greg_L]

I've personally never actually heard of a luthier building a guitar out of any kind of wood for it's "tone". Not even acoustic guitar builders. I talked to a Martin rep a while back and he flat out said that Martin builds acoustic guitars using wood for it's looks. He made no mention of tone, but he sure likes the looks of Spruce. It's all about looks. That bald Crimson guitar guy is madly in love with wood. He has an unhealthy fixation on wood. But none of it has anything to do with tone. He's all about looks. He'll ejaculate all over the room for a piece of spalted bird's eye flamed Bulgarian poplar beam out of an 18th century whorehouse because it looks neat, not because it sounds good.

There are things about wood that matter, like weight, cost, looks, durability, availability, etc. But tone? Come on.

[JD01]

Its not like I'm some tonewood evangelist. Pickups are nearly everything when it comes to the tone of an electric guitar.

[Greg_L]

Its not like I'm some tonewood evangelist. Pickups are nearly everything when it comes to the tone of an electric guitar.

What comes out of a speaker is the final result of a long list of ingredients. From your central nervous system to the speaker, everything in between matters to some degree. Wood falls in there somewhere.....probably way down near the bottom of the list.

I think construction matters, but I'm not even really sure how much that matters. If you left your Crimson guitar over here at my house and I used it to post sound clips, I bet you'd never even know it was your guitar because me through my shit just sounds like me. It's a solid body guitar with humbuckers in it. Besides just personal preference on looks and feel, there's nothing really different or unique between different solid body guitars with humbuckers.

[JD01]

If you left your Crimson guitar over here at my house and I used it to post sound clips, I bet you'd never even know it was your guitar because me through my shit just sounds like me. It's a solid body guitar with humbuckers in it. Besides just personal preference on looks and feel, there's nothing really different or unique between different solid body guitars with humbuckers.

Yeah, I agree with that.

At the moment one of my ears sounds really dark (if I can hear at all out of it) so I'm pretty much useless for judging tone until I've spent some time out of the water and seen the quack.

I think you'd like my guitar if you didn't have to look at it!

[rayc]

Triggered....
I've seen people dislike Pink Floyd before but not usually so vehemently,

Not Floyd per se: I have Piper, Meddle, DSOTM & WYWHere - Meddle's probably my fav - it could've been Piper but for the twee songs - stuff on the same level as The Laughing Gnome. The Wall and all that came after earned my ire.
No, tone - I haven't recorded any guitar for a bit as I have a trio of tracks awaiting completion. I have been playing through my little Pignose upstairs lately. Interesting tones. Oh, has any one seen/heard this...?
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBTgVZqmGQ[/BBvideo]
Seems like a lot of trouble/expense to get Rono Tone? Interestingly Mick Ronson doesn't get a mention.

[Bubba]

I've seen people dislike Pink Floyd before but not usually so vehemently,

I like Pink Floyd, but Comfortably Numb is one of the biggest piles of shit ever recorded. Including the solo. Especially the solo. And I like Gilmour's playing - a lot.

I watched "Echoes - Live at Pompeii" the other day. I'd like Greg to check that out briefly and look at the drumheads on that kit. They're fucked, they look about 40 years old! One of the biggest bands on the planet at that time and your average pub rocker attends to their kit better than that!!

And the drums sound like shit too, as you'd expect.

[Bubba]

one of my ears sounds really dark

Tone clip please.

[Bubba]

Seems like a lot of trouble/expense to get Rono Tone? Interestingly Mick Ronson doesn't get a mention.

And suddenly the thread comes full circle - this was exactly what started the original tone thread, all those years before.

[JD01]

Floyd's drum sound is often pretty shit.
Gilmour is a really good lead player although I partly agree that comfortably numb is pretty boring - it sounds a bit like generic widdling with occasional bend techniques thrown in to make it sound like Gilmour.

I saw an interview with Gilmour's wife once and she said that if they have an argument it would be easier for her if he'd just play guitar as a response 'cos he's far more expressive with a guitar than he is with words!

[JD01]

one of my ears sounds really dark

Tone clip please.

Low pass at 400hz

[Greg_L]

I think you'd like my guitar if you didn't have to look at it!

Maybe. I'd notice the neck though. I might be just a powerchording hack, but I know what kind of neck feels right in my left hand and Fender scale shredder necks aint it.

[Greg_L]

And suddenly the thread comes full circle - this was exactly what started the original tone thread, all those years before.

That is true.

[Greg_L]

I'd like Greg to check that out briefly and look at the drumheads on that kit. They're fucked, they look about 40 years old! One of the biggest bands on the planet at that time and your average pub rocker attends to their kit better than that!!

And the drums sound like shit too, as you'd expect.

I'd bet that's a conscious decision for the sound. Some drummers like old drums heads....like some guitarists prefer worn in strings. I like beat up tom heads, but I prefer snare heads pretty fresh.

[Bubba]

Tone clip please.

Low pass at 400hz

Weird. My ears make no sound at all.

[muttley]

I've personally never actually heard of a luthier building a guitar out of any kind of wood for it's "tone". Not even acoustic guitar builders. I talked to a Martin rep a while back and he flat out said that Martin builds acoustic guitars using wood for it's looks. He made no mention of tone, but he sure likes the looks of Spruce. It's all about looks. That bald Crimson guitar guy is madly in love with wood. He has an unhealthy fixation on wood. But none of it has anything to do with tone. He's all about looks. He'll ejaculate all over the room for a piece of spalted bird's eye flamed Bulgarian poplar beam out of an 18th century whorehouse because it looks neat, not because it sounds good.

There are things about wood that matter, like weight, cost, looks, durability, availability, etc. But tone? Come on.

If on an acoustic you used anything other than spruce, Cedar or Cypress it just wouldnt work, it would sound flat dull and lack projection, depth of dynamic response and generally sound dull. Spruce is used because of its relative light weight and high stiffness. Also the speed of sound in spruce is way above that of any other timber which is also a factor. I wish it werent true because if I could build a decent instrument out of any old wood I would be way wealthier than I am now..

On acoustic instruments the FIRST consideration is for timber that will perform to the following criteria in order... Stability, tone, aesthetic. It is not hard to tell the difference in tone between an instrument built with different timbers when talking acoustics. On an electric the influence of timber is far more subtle. On that one you are correct the overriding tone consideration is the pickup then the materials and construction design of the body of the instrument. They do matter though or your LP would sound like your Strat with the same pickup. They dont. The string vibrates differently because of different factors relating to the way the energy in the string interacts with the things attached to it... Those body build factors will influence tone, attack and decay as well as the frequency envelop the pickup has to translate..

[muttley]

Cool - do you think it actually has any influence on tone? They're both really strong aren't they.

Yes it will. In broad terms Maple is brighter and more immediate, mahogany is darker more complex and will normally assist you decay. The speed of sound and the reflective ability of both in terms of acoustic transmission is way different. Should you spend week aganising over the decision of which to use? No, both will work well. If you want more attack and high end, go with maple, if you want less attack and more decay but a darker tone go with mahogany..