The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

Back to the tones....

I wanted to try this out today - set the real JCM 800 and my bastardized JCM1987 conversion to the exact same everything and see how they differ. This is what I got. You don't have to guess which is which, but I aint gonna say yet either.

A.mp3

B.mp3

Same guitar, cab, speaker,mic placements, everything. Amps set the same. See what you think.

[Minerman]

Back to the tones....

I wanted to try this out today - set the real JCM 800 and my bastardized JCM1987 conversion to the exact same everything and see how they differ. This is what I got. You don't have to guess which is which, but I aint gonna say yet either.

A.mp3
B.mp3

Same guitar, cab, speaker,mic placements, everything. Amps set the same. See what you think.

Fuck man, I'd be happy with either of those tones, IMO they're just fuckin' great man...

They are both pretty similar, & to me there's just a slight difference, maybe in the mid/upper mids...

If I were to guess, "B" is the 800, but have no idea really...

[Tadpui]

I can't believe that I haven't listened to your bastardized amp yet! So this is really a blind guess.

B sounds just a hair less saturated to me. I would have to guess that's the JCM800 and that A is the frankenbastard. Both have lots of dynamic "punch". And yeah I concur with Miner, they're both sounds I'd be very happy with in a mix.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any gobos or other treatment you could put in front of your amp? I keep hearing this high frequency wash kind of thing in your clips, and I have to wonder if the massive SPL in your room is actually causing high frequencies to bounce/leak back into your mic. I know that amp is ridiculously loud and that your room is pretty well treated. But I have a sneaking suspicion that firing the cabinet directly into some treatment might remedy that. Just a guess though.

[Tadpui]

Here's some brootalz with the JCM1987 + Tube Screamer. I don't know what I'm doing here.

Gibson Angus SG - Angus sig bridge pickup
Tube Screamer - Drive 9:00 - Volume 3:00 - Tone 10:00
Marshall JCM1987 bastardization - JCM 800 mode
Presence - 5
Bass - 6
Mid - 3.5
Treb - 6
Gain - max
Master vol - 4
PPIMV - max
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
MXL R144 on axis, on grill, center - Audix i5 on axis, on grill halfway across cone
Um, about a 60/40 blend i5/r144
No FX or EQ

brootalz.mp3

Hahaha is that Ratt's Round and Round? While I'm no fan of the BF3 Flanger, I do love that tone otherwise. It's everything I want in a guitar tone: big, chunky, saturated but clear. I know it was kinda done as a joke, but you actually came upon a very desirable tone for me.

[Tadpui]

And one of my own: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/80j ... 25-002.mp3

This was a bit of an experiment, and a bunch of dad-rock noodling over a repeating loop. And I tossed in some ebow guitars just for the heck of it. The main thing that kept me repeating attempts at this improv was the brief magic that happens when I turned down my guitar volume and used my fingers to pick over the neck pickup area. The harmonic overtones just captivated me, and I couldn't stop. There are a bunch of missed notes and searching for a theme, but that's how I roll when I've barely played guitar for the last several months. Also the mix sucks, but that wasn't the focus...too much bass, not enough lead, guitars are too dark, etc.

The important parts about the lead guitar:
- Gibson LP Classic (with those darned BB Pro pickups), bridge position
- JCM800, hi channel
- TS9 at 2:00, 2:00, 9:00
- JHS Panther Cub delay set to fastest time, 1 repeat
- Guitar volume knob was at 4 the whole time
- Picking the quieter parts with my thumb, louder parts with a pick
- Two Notes Torpedo Reload, Wall of Sound III, and a little bit of reverb added in post

The non-descript guitar on the left was the Jazzmaster on the "mud" position thru the JCM800 on the lo input with a little TS9 in there.

[Tadpui]

SOLID STATE TONE...
Not really. I've had this Australian built 250 watt power mixers for almost 30 years.
I think I paid about 300 for it back then. I used it as a PA for quite a few things and ran school discos with it as well.
I'd put it away and forgotten about it until recently - THEN I tried to sell it for $200 and had no takers.
I opened it up to take snaps for advertising and discovered it has a reverb tank inside, (I'd though the reverb was less old school).
I recalled using the thing to record a guitar track with reverb back in the 80s.
I've decided that since no one wanted to buy it I'll set it up and use the instrument in & line out for some spring reverb fun.
Well, I hope to do.
mixer.jpg

Now THAT is a reverb

[Greg_L]

Fuck man, I'd be happy with either of those tones, IMO they're just fuckin' great man...

They are both pretty similar, & to me there's just a slight difference, maybe in the mid/upper mids...

If I were to guess, "B" is the 800, but have no idea really...

Thanks dude. Okay one guess for B-800.

I can't believe that I haven't listened to your bastardized amp yet! So this is really a blind guess.

B sounds just a hair less saturated to me. I would have to guess that's the JCM800 and that A is the frankenbastard. Both have lots of dynamic "punch". And yeah I concur with Miner, they're both sounds I'd be very happy with in a mix.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any gobos or other treatment you could put in front of your amp? I keep hearing this high frequency wash kind of thing in your clips, and I have to wonder if the massive SPL in your room is actually causing high frequencies to bounce/leak back into your mic. I know that amp is ridiculously loud and that your room is pretty well treated. But I have a sneaking suspicion that firing the cabinet directly into some treatment might remedy that. Just a guess though.

Okay another guess for B-800.

Interesting thought about the gobos. I have 6 gobos, but I never use them for what your'e describing. I'm open to try it but I don't see how highs could get back into the mics. I'm sure it's possible, but dynamic cardioids with minimal preamp gain because they're crammed up against a very loud cab doesn't seem like a recipe for reflections getting back in. On paper it doesn't seem likely but I can surely try the gobos and find out. That's a good test idea. I'll try it and report back.

Hahaha is that Ratt's Round and Round? While I'm no fan of the BF3 Flanger, I do love that tone otherwise. It's everything I want in a guitar tone: big, chunky, saturated but clear. I know it was kinda done as a joke, but you actually came upon a very desirable tone for me.

Well shit, thanks. You can do it. Just crank your 2204 and slam it with a Tube Screamer.

And one of my own: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/80j ... 25-002.mp3

This was a bit of an experiment, and a bunch of dad-rock noodling over a repeating loop. And I tossed in some ebow guitars just for the heck of it. The main thing that kept me repeating attempts at this improv was the brief magic that happens when I turned down my guitar volume and used my fingers to pick over the neck pickup area. The harmonic overtones just captivated me, and I couldn't stop. There are a bunch of missed notes and searching for a theme, but that's how I roll when I've barely played guitar for the last several months. Also the mix sucks, but that wasn't the focus...too much bass, not enough lead, guitars are too dark, etc.

The important parts about the lead guitar:
- Gibson LP Classic (with those darned BB Pro pickups), bridge position
- JCM800, hi channel
- TS9 at 2:00, 2:00, 9:00
- JHS Panther Cub delay set to fastest time, 1 repeat
- Guitar volume knob was at 4 the whole time
- Picking the quieter parts with my thumb, louder parts with a pick
- Two Notes Torpedo Reload, Wall of Sound III, and a little bit of reverb added in post

The non-descript guitar on the left was the Jazzmaster on the "mud" position thru the JCM800 on the lo input with a little TS9 in there.

That's pretty good. Very nice contrast between the "non-descript" left guitar, which I actually like best in the mix, and the lead and haunting ebow thing on the right.

[rayc]

Tad,
I love a little ebow.
Nicely done.
Greg,
I enjoyed both but I listened a couple of hours ago so don't recall which I thought was which.

[Minerman]

And one of my own: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/80j ... 25-002.mp3

This was a bit of an experiment, and a bunch of dad-rock noodling over a repeating loop. And I tossed in some ebow guitars just for the heck of it. The main thing that kept me repeating attempts at this improv was the brief magic that happens when I turned down my guitar volume and used my fingers to pick over the neck pickup area. The harmonic overtones just captivated me, and I couldn't stop. There are a bunch of missed notes and searching for a theme, but that's how I roll when I've barely played guitar for the last several months. Also the mix sucks, but that wasn't the focus...too much bass, not enough lead, guitars are too dark, etc.

The important parts about the lead guitar:
- Gibson LP Classic (with those darned BB Pro pickups), bridge position
- JCM800, hi channel
- TS9 at 2:00, 2:00, 9:00
- JHS Panther Cub delay set to fastest time, 1 repeat
- Guitar volume knob was at 4 the whole time
- Picking the quieter parts with my thumb, louder parts with a pick
- Two Notes Torpedo Reload, Wall of Sound III, and a little bit of reverb added in post

The non-descript guitar on the left was the Jazzmaster on the "mud" position thru the JCM800 on the lo input with a little TS9 in there.

This is cool Tad, you just need to buckle down & work out the lead lines dude, FWIW I do a lot of this as a placeholder sorta thing too, until I "learn" the lead parts...I love guitar that has articulation like the neck p'up thing you mentioned, good stuff...

In all the time I've played guitar, I've never tried an e-bow...I've read about 'em, & they've been out for years, but again, I've never tried one...Pretty cool man, I may splurge for one of those...

As far as the tone, it just needs a little sparkle on the top end IMO, but nothing wrong with it at all...Good job dude...

[rayc]

I decided to try a single coil guitar into the reverb tank.
It sounds better.

[Tadpui]

Greg

Thanks man, I think I might develop this a little further and put the Jazzmaster through the Deluxe Reverb instead of the super-dark lo channel on the JCM800.

Miner

Thanks dude, agreed that I need to learn the part! I do these improv things all the time...just start playing and see what happens. This was maybe the 3rd go-around for this one so I was still searching for some of the notes. I'll develop further, add a little structure to it, maybe even some vocals!

Ray

Thanks Ray, I really do like the ebow. It's not something that I can use all the time because it's not all that versatile. But when it works, it works!

[Greg_L]

If you're not sick of this modded plexi yet, maybe you will be now. Here's 5 minutes of me being an asshole. A clean asshole.

One thing yall haven't heard yet from this thing is it's clean sound. This is from what would be the low input on a JCM 800 2204. It's the top input on my amp, but I flipped the jacks and pot, so it's the low input which lives in the top input. Got all that? Never mind. This is the clean sound going through the range of the gain pot and using all sorts of stupid pickup and coil splitting combinations. Tube screamer at the end for the slightly crunchy "pedal platform" kind of thing.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckles Mule neck and Riff Raff bridge pickups
Marshall JCM1987 - low sensitivity input 2204 mode
All tone controls on 5
Master vol 5
PPIMV cranked
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G1265s
Senn MD421 dead center + Shure SM57 middle of cone
Both mics on axis on grill
50/50 blend
No FX or EQ in DAW

Clean ass

[liv_rong]

Man that sounds awesome greg. Good amp and guitar combinations happening.

[Greg_L]

Man that sounds awesome greg. Good amp and guitar combinations happening.

Really? Thanks dude. I'm never sure on clean sounds cuz I never really use them.

[Minerman]

If you're not sick of this modded plexi yet, maybe you will be now. Here's 5 minutes of me being an asshole. A clean asshole.

One thing yall haven't heard yet from this thing is it's clean sound. This is from what would be the low input on a JCM 800 2204. It's the top input on my amp, but I flipped the jacks and pot, so it's the low input which lives in the top input. Got all that? Never mind. This is the clean sound going through the range of the gain pot and using all sorts of stupid pickup and coil splitting combinations. Tube screamer at the end for the slightly crunchy "pedal platform" kind of thing.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckles Mule neck and Riff Raff bridge pickups
Marshall JCM1987 - low sensitivity input 2204 mode
All tone controls on 5
Master vol 5
PPIMV cranked
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G1265s
Senn MD421 dead center + Shure SM57 middle of cone
Both mics on axis on grill
50/50 blend
No FX or EQ in DAW

Clean ass

I'm actually impressed with the clean sound dude, the dirt sound of that amp is such an iconic bad-ass, but the cleans are good too...

I assume you got everything sorted with your switchable mod??? Pretty cool man...

The clean sounds are good, but of course I like the crunchy end part most...

[Greg_L]

I'm actually impressed with the clean sound dude, the dirt sound of that amp is such an iconic bad-ass, but the cleans are good too...

I assume you got everything sorted with your switchable mod??? Pretty cool man...

The clean sounds are good, but of course I like the crunchy end part most...

Thanks man. Yeah the amp seems to be all sorted out. No complaints. I can't think of anything else I wanna do or tweak right now. It sounds great, good to go!

[Tadpui]

You can't put your arms around a clean tone

Actually I think this sounds very good. Not a huge fan of the middle pickup position or the split coil sounds, but everything else sounds great to me. I'm impressed as much by the taper of your guitar volume pot as anything. It really stayed clear and detailed even when dialed way way back. And when it's on full tilt, the amp sounds pleasantly overdriven. Definitely darker than the hi inputs, whis is my experience on my own amp as well. Strange that it sounded so crisp at low input volume, but darkened right up at higher input volume. Is that my problem with my JCM800's lo-input, am I driving it too hard and into its "dark place"?

[Greg_L]

Actually I think this sounds very good. Not a huge fan of the middle pickup position or the split coil sounds, but everything else sounds great to me. I'm impressed as much by the taper of your guitar volume pot as anything. It really stayed clear and detailed even when dialed way way back. And when it's on full tilt, the amp sounds pleasantly overdriven. Definitely darker than the hi inputs, whis is my experience on my own amp as well. Strange that it sounded so crisp at low input volume, but darkened right up at higher input volume. Is that my problem with my JCM800's lo-input, am I driving it too hard and into its "dark place"?

Thanks man. The guitar is wired up for "50s wiring" with 500k audio pots which helps retain a good bunch of the balance and clarity when rolling the volume or tone knobs around. It drops the output without mangling the tone.

One thing you have to keep in mind on the low input is the signal still goes through the gain pot. And what's across that gain pot? A bright cap. The bright cap becomes more and more "invisible" as you turn the gain up, but with lower gain settings the bright cap is very much in play and shelves off the muck.

[JD01]

That's a really nice clean tone, Greg. I think I can tell when you're splitting pickups and you get a pretty Fenderish twang to it in places. When you stick the humbuckers back in they really make it sound more "marshally".

Its a nice clean tone, and you've got it surprisingly spanky - got me thinking though about how completely unfamiliar I am with a Marshall clean tone.

I don't really like the sound of the TS over a clean amp, I think they sound great over a crunchy amp - not so much over a clean tone.

You've done a great job with the amp though - it sounds really quite versatile. Have you got it footswitchable between clean and your different gain sounds.

[JD01]

These Gordon Smith GS1000 guitars just came up in my YouTube feed and they look pretty nice to me, quite basic but not totally stupidly priced.

Was just thinking though - does anyone know of a LP Jr/Special style guitar that's available with a Fender scale length?