The Tone Thread

[JD01]

LOL @ tonewood.

/vid

corrr! speechless

your linky led me on to this

"Most of the guitar body SAWED OFF! Did TONE change? " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzuAHhwGOkE love that Segeborn guy

Johan Segeborn is a really good case for the bulk of your tone being your fingers. He basically always sounds like he's playing a Gibson through a Plexi...

[cakewalkKaKed]

pmsl! i think your right! ... i love him cos he`s barmy,does all those experiments that we all wonder about ... im not a fan of his tone but he records it well enough for us to hear the difference ..

[antichef]

I haven't posted a tone in a while, so here's some stupid shit from just messing around today.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckles Mule neck (coil-split) - Riff Raff bridge
Boss Tremolo TR-2
Marshall 1987x 50w Plexi
Presence - 0
Bass, Mid, Treble - 10
Vol 1 - 4
Vol 2 - 0
High input 1 only
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Shure SM57 on grill, on axis, just off center + SM57 on grill 30 deg off axis right next to center mic
50/50 blend
No EQ, little bit of plate reverb impulse

Just some basic vol rolling on the split neck pickup, full blast bridge at the end.

LPC 1987 65 neck split and trem.mp3

Sounds good - once the bridge pickup takes over, there's maybe a little too much 2khz for my tender sensibilities. I like the tremolo! What plate impulse did you use?

[JD01]

Tones to follow but all good so far. Surprising step up in volume or at least perceived volume too.

20170916_114732.jpg

[Minerman]

Tones to follow but all good so far. Surprising step up in volume or at least perceived volume too.

Cool Jdude, dunno what build quality it is, but the cab looks nice...FWIW, I've read a lot of good things about those cabs...

If you can't quite get the tone you're after at first, remember your speakers will sound a little stiff until they're broken in...

I'm looking forward to hearing your tones with a bigger cab dude...

[Greg_L]

Sounds good - once the bridge pickup takes over, there's maybe a little too much 2khz for my tender sensibilities. I like the tremolo! What plate impulse did you use?

Thanks. No idea on the plate impulse. I have a pile of them and just grabbed one. If I remember correctly, it was some Lexicon large hall or something like that.

[Greg_L]

Tones to follow but all good so far. Surprising step up in volume or at least perceived volume too.

20170916_114732.jpg

Awesome. No surprise on the volume jump. You've got two very loud speakers in a proper speaker box. It can't not be louder than a little combo. Like miner said, you're gonna wanna to break those new speakers in. You need to blast it loud somewhere for a while. Rent an hourly practice room or go to a park with with power outlets or something.

[JD01]

Here's the first tone I've had change to record from it. 57 on the cap edge, i5 mid way out 50/50 blend

Tone Test 1 Both Mics.mp3

[JD01]

This is the tone in the intro to a new song I've just written and started working on. I'm not sure about the single coils so might change that to a humbucker and add a phaser.

Tone Test Mix.mp3

EDIT... phaser, it isn't that bad but I don't want to listen to it again!

[Greg_L]

Here's the first tone I've had change to record from it. 57 on the cap edge, i5 mid way out 50/50 blend
Tone Test 1 Both Mics.mp3

Well congratulations, it worked. That is, without question, the best guitar sound I've heard from you. The low end is especially much improved. Nice bouncy low end without being tubby. I hear some reverb in there so maybe that's helping too, but overall it's definitely way way better than your shoebox sounds from before. As the speakers warm up, it'll just get better.

Now try it with the mics reversed. Same spots but swap the mics. And If you're gonna double mic it, play with the spot of the second mic. Leave one at the dustcap seam and try different spots for the second mic. You'll find all kinds of cool shit with double miking better sounds from a better cab.

[JD01]

Yeah, that was gonna be my next thing when I start recording keeper tracks for this song. The i5 seems to be a touch brighter, so I was going to swap them around put the i5 on the edge of the cap and the and the 57 mid way out, basically like the pic I posted earlier but reversed. Glad I decided to chuck in the 2nd mic when I order the cab - I was in two minds as to whether to bother.

Cheers, Greg

That last mix clip was a bit weird, this is a more simple/typical bit of the song and I think the tones are working well so far - just need to tighten up my rhythm playing.

Test PreChor and Chor.mp3

[Greg_L]

Yeah, that was gonna be my next thing when I start recording keeper tracks for this song. The i5 seems to be a touch brighter, so I was going to swap them around put the i5 on the edge of the cap and the and the 57 mid way out, basically like the pic I posted earlier but reversed. Glad I decided to chuck in the 2nd mic when I order the cab - I was in two minds as to whether to bother.

Cheers, Greg

That last mix clip was a bit weird, this is a more simple/typical bit of the song and I think the tones are working well so far - just need to tighten up my rhythm playing.

Test PreChor and Chor.mp3

That's not too bad. I think you need to re-think all of your mix practices now though. Any guitar cuts and roll-offs and shit you did before - forget them. Start from ground zero. Even how you use the amp. Start fresh. Ditch the overdrive. Ditch the EQ pedal. You've made a major change and all the tone band-aids you used before no longer apply. You might find you want them later, and that's fine, but don't use any of that shit as a matter of course until you know you need or want them.

[JD01]

I'm sort of doing that. But kind of the other way around - Instead of ditching everything, I've been removing/altering one thing at a time so I know what is making what difference. Seems to be a bit more science in it that way and I can keep tabs on what is doing what. Its a fun song to work on too, that's really hard to play so its keeping me entertained for a day or two anyway.

I've had a good fiddle with the EQ pedal this week, I've adjusted a few bits on it but there's still a need for a few db cut at 400 - that's obviously just a blackstar thing.

I've actually changed my gain a lot too - mainly coming from the OCD now, I'm using as little gain as I can from the drive channel of the amp and adding a little gain from the OCD instead. Seems to work a bit better. Just fun messing about with it all and seeing what works though.

[Greg_L]

I'm sort of doing that. But kind of the other way around - Instead of ditching everything, I've been removing/altering one thing at a time so I know what is making what difference. Seems to be a bit more science in it that way and I can keep tabs on what is doing what. Its a fun song to work on too, that's really hard to play so its keeping me entertained for a day or two anyway.

I've had a good fiddle with the EQ pedal this week, I've adjusted a few bits on it but there's still a need for a few db cut at 400 - that's obviously just a blackstar thing.

I've actually changed my gain a lot too - mainly coming from the OCD now, I'm using as little gain as I can from the drive channel of the amp and adding a little gain from the OCD instead. Seems to work a bit better. Just fun messing about with it all and seeing what works though.

Just from these two clips I've heard so far, I'm thinking the tones are still a little flat and compressed. It's significantly better for sure, but the tones/guitar tracks still aren't quite open and breathing like I think they could. It's hard to describe. There's not much depth to the guitar tracks. The low end is improved, but the texture and richness and depth is not quite there yet. I think your various boost pedals are solid-state clipping your signal too much before it hits the amp. I think that's good sometimes, like for leads, but not all the time...like for rhythm tracks.

[JD01]

Yeah. I'm going to keep fiddling today and see how it goes. I think I have about another 3 hours of peace.

[JD01]

tracks still aren't quite open and breathing like I think they could. It's hard to describe. There's not much depth to the guitar tracks. The low end is improved, but the texture and richness and depth is not quite there yet.

Was just thinking, and I think the main culprit of this is that I don't have 120db hitting my mics like you do!
Might just be a limitation of the amp - there's definitely some solid state clipping in the drive channel - I'm hardly using any drive on my pedals, mainly just level boost.

[Greg_L]

Was just thinking, and I think the main culprit of this is that I don't have 120db hitting my mics like you do!
Might just be a limitation of the amp - there's definitely some solid state clipping in the drive channel - I'm hardly using any drive on my pedals, mainly just level boost.

That's true, volume always helps. I'm not comparing your tracks to mine though. Even using a simple boost can sort of "transistorize" a signal. No pedal is 100% transparent unless it's true bypass...and it's turned off.

Now that you're not fighting the cab, try some rhythm tracks with no boost pedals.

[JD01]

Yeah, will do. Hopefully I'll have more time for more experiements with it this week. Really pleased with it so far though.
Don't want to mangle my tone too much straight off 'cos I'm pretty happy with it right now. I don't have huge amounds of either free time or neighbours patience to keep experimenting. Will be playing about with it a bit more though and it will keep evolving.

I'm probably going to replace the combo next with the head version just to tidy the room up a bit - heads are going for 250-300 quid on ebay and I reckon I can get that for my combo, especially as its upgraded to a V30.

[Minerman]

Jdude I gotta say those guitar tracks sound pretty good dude...We'd all been tellin' ya we thought a better cab would make a difference, congrats dude...

On the i5 vs '57, I much prefer the i5 dude, for about a year the '57 was all I had (other than the condensers), so I was really partial to it, but since I got my i5, it's my main guitar mic...It's a little easier to get fizz with it due to it being a bit brighter, but I personally think the i5 is just the better mic...My '57 could be a dud, I dunno, but again, I like the i5 better...

I found the same thing using pedals dude, they weren't bad, they just sounded a little flat compared to my clips using just an amp...What Greg is saying about your rhythm tracks is basically use a little less gain than you normally would...This helps with chord definition, clarity, etc., when you have 2 guitars panned out, you really don't need as much gain as you'd think...Then when you add another dirty guitar (lead), if you have too much gain, they'll kinda just mush together...

I know it's hard to do sometimes (and is why I'm building another ISO cab), but sheer volume with a little less gain usually works better than more gain than volume, especially with rhythm guitars...Everybody's rig is a little different, but you'll just have to play around to find "the spot" that works for you...When I had the Chupa, some of my best clips (to me anyway) weren't as loud as you'd think, especially using the hot-rodded modes on that amp...The little EVH to me is a lot like the Chupa, it just doesn't have the tone shaping switches, so I have to use the tonestack knobs instead...

For all the clips I've done from way back, I save 'em each as their own project, & on each track, I have the notepad plugin with all the settings for the guitar used, amp, speaker, mic placement, everything...That way I could compare what worked or didn't, & use the amp/track settings as a guide...I'd recommend you doing something similar, so you can track your progress, while actually seeing what mic placement/amp settings/etc work best...

Congrats dude, this is kinda like my "aha" moment when I bought my half-stack, & I think this is a big step up for you...

[cakewalkKaKed]

woohooo! yeah Jdood,waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy better ! specially in the mix .. but listen to the greg and bin the band aids .. least for now .. re-learn the amp


edit:- btw bin the built in reverb to ... i think the tone your looking for doesn't have any .. or very,very little