REAPER math question.

[rammer24]

Man, I didn't know where to put this. It's not really a question, as much as an observation, and it has more to do with math than music.

OK, so I'm screwing around in REAPER, wanting to see where the 4 minute mark of a song is. It's a song that I I'm constantly changing the tempo for as I'm writing it while laying down and erasing scratch tracks until I find the right speed for it.

Long story short, I noticed that no matter how many BPM's a song is, the 4 minute mark always falls EXACTLY right on beat 1. How is that possible? I don't understand the math that would make that possible. For example, going from 71 bpm's to 72 bpm's it still falls exactly on beat, never even a little off. No matter what BPM's I put it at, the 4 minute mark is always right on beat.

I just happened to notice the 4 minute mark, but I probably should have checked to see if all minutes falls right on a beat. It doesn't make sense to me. I can undestand that happening if it's a multiple of 60 or 30, etc.....But even at the oddest numbers, weather it's 83 or 56, the 4 minute mark always falls right on beat.

Open REAPER and put your timeline to show "Measures/beats Minutes/seconds". Go to the 4 minute mark. Keep changing tempos and find the 4 minute mark. It always falls on beat. That shouldn't be possible, should it?

[Greg_L]

Goddamn, you're right.

[miroslav]

Not having ever used Reaper to know its operation or any quirks...but...the BMP is also tied to your time sig.

So...no matter the speed, it will maintain the time sig you set and put all the beats right....IOW...4/4 is always 4/4 regardless of tempo....it's just stretching or shrinking the 4/4 depending on your BPM selection.

I'm sure that's all it is......but again, I don't know if Reaper does anything odd...and I'm too lazy right now to go check/confirm this on my DAW.

[rammer24]

Not having ever used Reaper to know its operation or any quirks...but...the BMP is also tied to your time sig.

So...no matter the speed, it will maintain the time sig you set and put all the beats right....IOW...4/4 is always 4/4 regardless of tempo....it's just stretching or shrinking the 4/4 depending on your BPM selection.

Sorry , that makes no sense. BPM is what's important here. If there are 100 beats per minute and you're in 4/4, then the 1 minute mark should fall exactly at the end of bar #25, AKA Beat 1 of bar #26.....so the 4 minute mark would fall right on beat 1 of bar #101. I hope you follow me so far. If you change that BPM to 102 or 113 or 54, or whatever, the 4 minute mark shouldn't always fall right on beat 1 of a bar. It makes no sense. It should fall between beats at time, it should fall on beat 3 sometimes, etc....That's not happening.

[miroslav]

Well...in my DAW...when I mess with BPM ...I get a pop-up asking if everything should lock to the new BPM or no.
The default is that is should...so it does....and everything adjust to the new BMP perfectly...you don't get shit falling in-between things...etc...because you would WANT it to stay the same...you're just playing it slower or faster...the time sig and number of measures is the same.

I'm wondering if that is also the default in Reaper...?

If I uncheck the default options..then yes, it's going to be all skewed.

[rammer24]

That still makes no sense, Miro. Maybe you don't undestand what I'm saying. Forget about DAW's for a second. It's mathematically impossible hat the 4 minute mark of a song would always fall EXACTLY on beat number one of a bar at every BPM you play it at. If you play a song at 91 BPM's or 89 BPM's, it should be impossible that the 4 minute mark falls exactly on the beat at both those tempos. You have to think that if it falls right on the beat at 89, it should be just a little earlier at 91.

[miroslav]

That still makes no sense, Miro. Maybe you don't undestand what I'm saying.

So you're saying that no matter what BPM you set...the 4 minute mark is always in the same spot of the song...?

I guess what I'm not getting is if you slow the song down..it's less then 4 minutes, and of course if you speed it up it's more...
...so then your last beat would not be at 4 minutes in either case....right?
What I was saying ,...and what I thought you meant...was that your beats would always end with the same number of measures...just faster or slower....always on time.

So if the time display is not making sense....is there something else you are setting or not setting...?
Are you maybe time-stretching/compressing to force the fit into 4 min in some way...or just adjusting the BMP...?
I would think if this was a REaper "error"...with so many users, it would have surfaced sooner...that's why I think it's some setting.
I would really have to see it to be sure what's going on.

I'll fuck with my DAW tomorrow...I'm on my way to bed now, got to get up real early...sorry if I'm not understanding you. "shrug"

[rammer24]

So you're saying that no matter what BPM you set...the 4 minute mark is always in the same spot of the song...?

No. I'll tell you in a second.

I guess what I'm not getting is if you slow the song down..it's less then 4 minutes, and of course if you speed it up it's more...

Actually, it's the other way around. You got that backwards. If you slow down a song it takes longer, and vice versa.

...so then your last beat would not be at 4 minutes in either case....right?
What I was saying ,...and what I thought you meant...was that your beats would always end with the same number of measures...just faster or slower....always on time.

No, this has nothing to do with the where "last beat" is.

What I'm saying is this. I'm probably not making myself clear....

If I put the tempo at 73 BPM's, the 4 MINUTE MARK falls EXACTLY on beat 1 of Bar #74

If I put the tempo at 102 BPM's, the 4 MINUTE MARK falls EXACTLY on beat 1 of Bar #103

If I put the tempo at 57 BPM's, the 4 MINUTE MARK falls EXACTLY on beat 1 of Bar #58

I can go on and on with literally any BPM, the 4 minute mark always falls on BEAT NUMBER 1 of a bar. Not the same bar, obviously, but always on BEAT NUMBER 1 of a bar. Never on the second beat, or the third, or between beats...Always right on Beat Number 1 of a bar. It shouldn't be.

[rammer24]

(I actually just noticed another pattern while typing that, but that's another math equation)

[Roman]

The real question here is why are your songs going to 4 minutes? 3 minutes 29 seconds tops, Is what is acceptable.

Just messing with you

But seriously, that is weird and should be impossible.
My studio is packed up so i can't check it out for myself.

Probably a good thing, don't need my fucking head to explode.

[rammer24]

You know what. I thought about it. It does make sense, actually. Since BPM's are based on beats PER ONE MINUTE, then 4 minutes will always fall right on a beat that is 4 times more than whatever the BPM is. I'll explain more to morrow. I acutally just got out of bed to type this. I need a fucking life.

[Roman]

You know what. I thought about it. It does make sense, actually. Since BPM's are based on beats PER ONE MINUTE, then 4 minutes will always fall right on a beat that is 4 times more than whatever the BPM is. I'll explain more to morrow. I acutally just got out of bed to type this. I need a fucking life.

Damn!!#!!!#!!! I think you and everyone else just had a duh moment

[Bubba]

You know what. I thought about it. It does make sense, actually. Since BPM's are based on beats PER ONE MINUTE, then 4 minutes will always fall right on a beat that is 4 times more than whatever the BPM is. I'll explain more to morrow. I acutally just got out of bed to type this. I need a fucking life.

I started reading this thread and I was just about to post this self-same explanation! Thank fuck for that - I anticipated five pages of back-and-forth.

[Armistice]

I knew that if I didn't think about this at all, it would solve itself.

Hey I saw Hidden Figures a month or so back - amazing film about these black women mathematicians who manually calculated all the trajectories for the Apollo lunar landings. Pretty sure they'd have figured this out. Or Hawking maybe. Thank god we didn't need to bother them.

[Armistice]

By the way WhiskeyJack - note the opening comment from Rami - "I didn't know where to put it" - now if we had a general recording forum....

[jonny deep]

You know what. I thought about it. It does make sense, actually. Since BPM's are based on beats PER ONE MINUTE, then 4 minutes will always fall right on a beat that is 4 times more than whatever the BPM is. I'll explain more to morrow. I acutally just got out of bed to type this. I need a fucking life.

Yep, so you should see the same at 1, 2 and 3 minutes, unless you have 100.5 BPM or something.

[Armistice]

Unless the constant i is involved, I stay out of mathematical posts. Or trigonometry, I still remember some of that.

[Greg_L]

The real question here is why are your songs going to 4 minutes?

That was the very first thing to enter my mind in this discussion.

[JD01]

Does that mean if you want to write a 3 minute song it has to be a waltz?

[Bubba]

Unless the constant i is involved, I stay out of mathematical posts. Or trigonometry, I still remember some of that.

Well of course you'll remember trig, you were a surveyor!

My favourite function is e^x.