I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

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Minerman
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I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Minerman »

Hey Mutt,
I sent you a pm, but dunno if you got it or not, so I'm making a thread...I know you're a busy guy, so I apologize if I'm being a nuisance...

Wondering how much a set of P-90's would be, with the molex/quick clip connectors on 'em...

Not sure it'd make a difference with P90's, but the Les Paul has coil taps (push/pull volume pots, which I rarely, if ever use)...

Les Paul:








SG:









Looks like the wiring is the same on both guitars, correct me if I'm wrong...

Lemme know if you need more or better pics...

Thanks!!!
Last edited by Minerman on Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by muttley »

It shouldn't be a problem. I used to get Gibson's through my shop on a daily basis but I've dropped a lot of the set up work I used to do. I can soon find out what we need and I'll do it this week. What I do know from the few I've worked on is that Gibson have decided to mess around with the colour coding with these.... crafty feckers. We can do it though, I will just need to be sure I hook up the right lead wires to the right connector pin, Normally it wouldn't be a problem because you could just switch them and solder them where they need to be, with a snap on connector you need to get them right...
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Minerman »

I haven't gotten around to taking the pics for you yet Mutt, but will get 'em this evening...

I'll unplug a p'up in each guitar & get a good pic of the connectors & wiring for you...

Thanks!!!
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Minerman »

I uploaded some pics & put them in the first post....
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by muttley »

Minerman wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:11 pm I uploaded some pics & put them in the first post....
I'll take a look in the morning. It's heading towards 11pm here and I'm shot. Aside from that I'm sure we can sort this it just may take me a little time as I want to get it right s it's crossing the pond.... Sorry if I seem evasive but you know me, I only comment when I know whats what...;)
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Minerman »

muttley wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:25 pm I'll take a look in the morning. It's heading towards 11pm here and I'm shot. Aside from that I'm sure we can sort this it just may take me a little time as I want to get it right s it's crossing the pond....
It's cool dude, I know you've got a lot on your plate, no hurry at all...
muttley wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:25 pmSorry if I seem evasive but you know me, I only comment when I know whats what...;)
Not at all Mutt, again, I know you're busy dude, it's all good... :minernuggs:
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Minerman »

Instead of starting a new thread, I'll just keep this one going to keep all my questions & info in one spot...

So, would a P-90 work well in a strat's neck & bridge positions??? It's a bright guitar, matter of fact, I tried a Duncan Custom Custom in the bridge position & thought that p'up sucked in that guitar, but the same p'up works pretty good in my Ibanez with a Floyd Rose trem...

500k pots are recommended for humbuckers, would that be the same for P-90's too???
muttley wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:13 pm No worries. It just helps me if questions are sort of in the right place and saves time tracking down info later. No biggie..;)

What full blown version do you mean?
By "full blown" I just meant strictly a humbucker, P-90 or single coil, instead of trying to have them all in one p'up...
muttley wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:13 pmBest way to approach it is to decide what you main tone is going to be. Humbucker, p90, rail, whatever, then if you can work in an unintended consequence such as a coil tap, split or a humcancelling dummy coil so much the better. Always go for your main tone first.. Focus on that.

Bubba and JD recently got buckers that I tried to wind in a fuller better single coil split. By all accounts its worked out well but the primary goal was a bucker that worked for what they wanted.
A P-90 is something I don't have, & even though I have a S-S-S strat, 99% of the time I go for pretty gained-up tones, so I rarely use that guitar...

I thought it'd be nice to have the blue strat with P-90's for crunchy tones that would be a little different from my usual humbuckers & the hum-canceling dummy coil sounds like it'd be pretty cool to kill the noise...
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by muttley »

Been out for a beer mate. Will reply in the morning. Its been a long week... I wont forget. :illdrinktothat:

I know I said that before but I truly do have the memory of an elephant... :wink:
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by muttley »

Minerman wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:21 pm
So, would a P-90 work well in a strat's neck & bridge positions??? It's a bright guitar, matter of fact, I tried a Duncan Custom Custom in the bridge position & thought that p'up sucked in that guitar, but the same p'up works pretty good in my Ibanez with a Floyd Rose trem...

Who knows? Its really down to what you want. The first thing to consider would be how you would fit it. A p90 is a LOT bigger than a strat pickup.

Generally p90's have a fatter sound with more grunt. They have a higher output and probably considered the go to single coil. I have never tried one in a strat.
500k pots are recommended for humbuckers, would that be the same for P-90's too???
Again, it depends. Some people like 500k some even go as high as 1MG. I will leave others to comment on that but I stick with 250k or occasionally 500k. I think the caps you use play a bigger role and also good quality pots over cheap higher rated ones..

By "full blown" I just meant strictly a humbucker, P-90 or single coil, instead of trying to have them all in one p'up...
My advice as said before is aim for the main style you want and get that right. If you get a second option out of it so much the better but get the primary goal right. Compromise is always just that. Compromise.


A P-90 is something I don't have, & even though I have a S-S-S strat, 99% of the time I go for pretty gained-up tones, so I rarely use that guitar...
By the sounds of it a P90 is probably what you want then as they are probably the best single coils for high gain. Gerg would have more to say on that than me as our resident p90 guru...
I thought it'd be nice to have the blue strat with P-90's for crunchy tones that would be a little different from my usual humbuckers & the hum-canceling dummy coil sounds like it'd be pretty cool to kill the noise...
Hum cancelling coils also rob some of the sweet spot out of the tone. Anytime you add metal to a pup you drain some of the field the magnets and copper coil generate. Thats why pup covers are often removed and people pay more for nickle baseplates. That helps keep the losses down to a minimum.

Lastly the images in you first post are no longer available. I'm not sure if you still have them? If you do post them up and I will edit your first post to include them again.. :like:
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Greg_L »

Miner you don't have anything that will fit a P90. They're oddly sized. You'd have to do some hogging on your Strat or get a P90 made to fit....and then it wouldn't be a P90 anymore. And they make noise. For the kind of gain you like to use, they'd be some noisy mofos. But the main issue is fitment. P90s don't just swap into anything unless it already has a P90 or a mini-humbucker.
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by JD01 »

I've not seen a p90 in a strat before. That would be cool.
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Minerman »

muttley wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:23 am By the sounds of it a P90 is probably what you want then as they are probably the best single coils for high gain. Gerg would have more to say on that than me as our resident p90 guru...
Ok, gimme a little while so Greg can walk me through this again...
muttley wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:23 amLastly the images in you first post are no longer available. I'm not sure if you still have them? If you do post them up and I will edit your first post to include them again.. :like:
I updated the first post with those pics Mutt, lemme know if you need any more of 'em

Greg_L wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:57 am Miner you don't have anything that will fit a P90. They're oddly sized. You'd have to do some hogging on your Strat or get a P90 made to fit....and then it wouldn't be a P90 anymore. And they make noise. For the kind of gain you like to use, they'd be some noisy mofos. But the main issue is fitment. P90s don't just swap into anything unless it already has a P90 or a mini-humbucker.
A P-90 will fit into a humbucker route, correct??? The strat I'm yapping about has H-S-S routing...



To put one in the neck position of that guitar, I'd have to use a router, & use a different pickguard, but that's not a problem...

The noise you mention does concern me though Greg...I'd say a P-90 would sound pretty different from anything I currently have, but maybe that wouldn't be my best choice for p'ups...Maybe a low-output humbucker might be better??? I dunno man, I really like the clips you've posted with the P-90 guitars you have, but again, the noise thing concerns me...
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:32 pm
A P-90 will fit into a humbucker route, correct??? The strat I'm yapping about has H-S-S routing...



To put one in the neck position of that guitar, I'd have to use a router, & use a different pickguard, but that's not a problem...
You will have to make the pickup cavity longer from string to string. They do make humbucker sized P90s, but they just aint the same.
The noise you mention does concern me though Greg...I'd say a P-90 would sound pretty different from anything I currently have, but maybe that wouldn't be my best choice for p'ups...Maybe a low-output humbucker might be better??? I dunno man, I really like the clips you've posted with the P-90 guitars you have, but again, the noise thing concerns me...
I would think a low/vintage output humbucker would do what you want without the noise. Maybe save up some coin and get a guitar with a P90 already in it to have for those times you want it. I think P90s are great, but from what I know about you and your style, I'm not too confident that you'd get along with one for long.
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:46 pm You will have to make the pickup cavity longer from string to string. They do make humbucker sized P90s, but they just aint the same.
Ok, so a P-90 is basically a bit wider than a humbucker...I know you've explained this to me before, but for some reason I just thought a P-90 would drop into a humbucker slot...
Greg_L wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:46 pmI would think a low/vintage output humbucker would do what you want without the noise. Maybe save up some coin and get a guitar with a P90 already in it to have for those times you want it. I think P90s are great, but from what I know about you and your style, I'm not too confident that you'd get along with one for long.
Cool man, maybe I just need to talk with Mutt & work something out for the blue strat...I also have a really cheap, black S-S-S strat that I rarely use, but I'm probably just gonna give it to the bass player buddy I've mentioned a few times...

Gonna do some diggin' about a few more things, but I'll be back... :minernuggs:
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by muttley »

Minerman wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:35 pm
Greg_L wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:46 pm You will have to make the pickup cavity longer from string to string. They do make humbucker sized P90s, but they just aint the same.
Ok, so a P-90 is basically a bit wider than a humbucker...I know you've explained this to me before, but for some reason I just thought a P-90 would drop into a humbucker slot...
No. A P90 is wider across the strings by quite a bit. It is slightly narrower but not a lot and it is not as deep. I do a p90 in a humbucker size, that would drop in to a humbucker route. As gereg says they are not "exactly" p90 but mine gets pretty close. Bubba has one if you want to seek comments. Lt has oone too but I dont think his is installed yet.
Greg_L wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:46 pmI would think a low/vintage output humbucker would do what you want without the noise. Maybe save up some coin and get a guitar with a P90 already in it to have for those times you want it. I think P90s are great, but from what I know about you and your style, I'm not too confident that you'd get along with one for long.
Cool man, maybe I just need to talk with Mutt & work something out for the blue strat...I also have a really cheap, black S-S-S strat that I rarely use, but I'm probably just gonna give it to the bass player buddy I've mentioned a few times...

Gonna do some diggin' about a few more things, but I'll be back... :minernuggs:
This cheap strat. Sometimes they have a tank route under the pickguard rather than individual routes for each pickup. That could work in your favour...

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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by Minerman »

I'm still thinking about a few different things over here Mutt, would you be able to do a single coil sized, stacked humbucker???
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

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Minerman wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:11 pm I'm still thinking about a few different things over here Mutt, would you be able to do a single coil sized, stacked humbucker???
Possibly... I'd have to establish what parts are available and what parts need fabricating. Essentially if baseplates and covers are available everything else should be OK. let me look into it. Not done a stacked strat pup yet.. Rail buckers I have done. Why are you after a stacked rather than a rail. The rail design is prolly more popular..
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

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muttley wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:00 pm
Minerman wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:11 pm I'm still thinking about a few different things over here Mutt, would you be able to do a single coil sized, stacked humbucker???
Possibly... I'd have to establish what parts are available and what parts need fabricating. Essentially if baseplates and covers are available everything else should be OK. let me look into it. Not done a stacked strat pup yet..
Ok Mutt, no hurry...I've thought about the noise with P-90's that Gerg mentioned, & I'm probably gonna go another route for my strat, like the stacked 'bucker for the neck, most likely a regular 'bucker for the bridge, & most likely medium-ish output on both...
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Re: I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

Post by muttley »

Minerman wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:19 pm
muttley wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:00 pm

Possibly... I'd have to establish what parts are available and what parts need fabricating. Essentially if baseplates and covers are available everything else should be OK. let me look into it. Not done a stacked strat pup yet..
Ok Mutt, no hurry...I've thought about the noise with P-90's that Gerg mentioned, & I'm probably gonna go another route for my strat, like the stacked 'bucker for the neck, most likely a regular 'bucker for the bridge, & most likely medium-ish output on both...
I'd seriously consider a rail design over a stacked design. There are some sound reason for that in their ability to actually hum cancel. A stacked design does it in a different way to a rail design and the latter is far more effective. It has to do with how the polarity of the magnets are oriented and the inductance of both coils. Rails are generally considered better. Your call though...
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