Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

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Greg_L
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:56 am OK, Ive just listened to them on a decent set of monitors. To my ears the Mutt90 definitely sounds tighter with more separation and clarity especially in the mids. Punchy in the low end too without stomping all over the mid and highs. I'm definitely liking the balanced range as well. I'm thinking that extra separation and clarity comes mainly from the scatter wind and tension on the wire. All Gibbies p90's are machine wound to a set tension and very little if any scatter wind they are all wound transverse. It's the scatter that makes the most difference imho.. that and careful wax potting.

Last question for my notes.What strings do you have on there?

I'm gonna go look into p90 cover sizes now and try and check on the radius of as many as I can.
I agree. I mean, I don't know about the winding stuff, but your perception of the sound is how I hear it too. It's really great! Very nicely balanced. I'd even say it's perfect. I can't wait to get that Chibson in my hands to put the Dogear model in it.

I don't remember what brand the strings are, but I know they're a standard 10 set. That's all I use. 10s on everything. They're old too. They need to be changed. Hold up....

Looking at it now, the strings have red, white, and blue colored ball ends. That can only mean one thing - Rotosounds. These must be a set of the Rotosounds that came with my Bare Knuckles for the LP Custom. Roto-Yellows. That would explain why they went so dead so fast. Things can only get better with a good set of strings on this thing. I'm not a fan of the Rotosounds and I suspect I put them on this guitar a while back just to use them on something.

I'll do some clips in a mix with drums and bass today.
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muttley
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by muttley »

OK, yeh sounds like rotos... I'm looking forward to hearing the Chibson mod too. It should really boost that thing as most of them come with really cheap ceramic magnets, underwound and sound harsh and nasal.

On the corner radius thing it seems I learn something everyday. I did not know that the Gibson reissue lines with p90's had slightly different pickup routes. You live and learn.

P90 pickup cover problem

Now I know.

Glad you are pleased with it though, If I can find a reissue cover anyplace I will send you a couple. No one lists them as such.
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Greg_L
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:24 am OK, yeh sounds like rotos... I'm looking forward to hearing the Chibson mod too. It should really boost that thing as most of them come with really cheap ceramic magnets, underwound and sound harsh and nasal.

On the corner radius thing it seems I learn something everyday. I did not know that the Gibson reissue lines with p90's had slightly different pickup routes. You live and learn.

P90 pickup cover problem

Now I know.

Glad you are pleased with it though, If I can find a reissue cover anyplace I will send you a couple. No one lists them as such.
Yeah I learned something too. I'm glad I'm not the only one to have that problem.

I bought this guitar for $300 on an impulse with the sole intent of converting it to a P90 Special. It originally had mini-humbuckers. Knowing that the mini-hums and P90 share the same rout, it was an easy sell for me. I ended up liking the mini-hums so they stayed for a while. Then I found a new-ish P90 on ebay that was taken out of something else and it was going for cheap so I grabbed it. It fit right into the mini-hum rout no problem. I didn't know P90s over the years or through the aftermarket have different corner radii. :crazy:

Anyway, the P90 that was in the bridge will now go in the neck position...eventually. I'll need to find a more modern cover for it though because it's original cover is now on the Mutt. It's not that big a deal really. I don't use the neck pickup and this guitar still has a ways to go before it's finished. It's also gotta be stripped and painted white.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by muttley »

I have covers from the main suppliers which I will check later. If I can id one that will fit I will send it over with LT's pups and he can forward it to you.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:40 am I have covers from the main suppliers which I will check later. If I can id one that will fit I will send it over with LT's pups and he can forward it to you.
Awesome, thanks!

Check those pics I posted. They probably won't tell you much, but you can see the difference in radius between my pickup rout and the cover that came with your pickup.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Lt. Bob »

the thing that jumps out at me is that the mutts' highs are NOT spikey .... it's a bit fatter sounding to my ears but the big thing for me is the smooth non-spikey top end.
That's very cool .... gives me hope for a decent bridge p'up
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by WhiskeyJack »

:like:

Bob got my word i was going to use. Smooth. I think the mutt pups are a smoother. they don't have that, yea spike. I didn't want to regurgitate bobs entire post but there is no other way i can word that.

I am on shit ear buds, But I noticeit almost sounds like the Gib90 has a tighter low mid and Mutts has a bit broader low mid. not in a way that it would take away from a mix but things just sound a bit more spread out in that realm.

I might be wrong cause i usually am but that is about the only way i can word what i am hearing. :sherlock: :coolstorybro: :coolstorybro: :happytrees:
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by muttley »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:53 pm :like:

Bob got my word i was going to use. Smooth. I think the mutt pups are a smoother. they don't have that, yea spike. I didn't want to regurgitate bobs entire post but there is no other way i can word that.

I am on shit ear buds, But I noticeit almost sounds like the Gib90 has a tighter low mid and Mutts has a bit broader low mid. not in a way that it would take away from a mix but things just sound a bit more spread out in that realm.

I might be wrong cause i usually am but that is about the only way i can word what i am hearing. :sherlock: :coolstorybro: :coolstorybro: :happytrees:
Typically. A stock machine wound pickup will have those high end brittle brash sounds. The way to manipulate them is to scatter the wire as it loads up on the col. Scatter winding alters the inductance of the coil subtly to introduce more pronounced overtones and harmonic responses. Couple that with the tension which further affects the way the coil responds in use both physically and harmonically and you can do quite a lot by just manipulating the coil., Add in the choice of magnet and you can really dial into the ball park you are aiming for.

Gerg is going to do a soundclip of the pup in a mix and it will be very interesting to hear how it sits even if we dont have an AB with the gibby..
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by WhiskeyJack »

muttley wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:24 pm
WhiskeyJack wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:53 pm :like:

Bob got my word i was going to use. Smooth. I think the mutt pups are a smoother. they don't have that, yea spike. I didn't want to regurgitate bobs entire post but there is no other way i can word that.

I am on shit ear buds, But I noticeit almost sounds like the Gib90 has a tighter low mid and Mutts has a bit broader low mid. not in a way that it would take away from a mix but things just sound a bit more spread out in that realm.

I might be wrong cause i usually am but that is about the only way i can word what i am hearing. :sherlock: :coolstorybro: :coolstorybro: :happytrees:
Typically. A stock machine wound pickup will have those high end brittle brash sounds. The way to manipulate them is to scatter the wire as it loads up on the col. Scatter winding alters the inductance of the coil subtly to introduce more pronounced overtones and harmonic responses. Couple that with the tension which further affects the way the coil responds in use both physically and harmonically and you can do quite a lot by just manipulating the coil., Add in the choice of magnet and you can really dial into the ball park you are aiming for.

Gerg is going to do a soundclip of the pup in a mix and it will be very interesting to hear how it sits even if we dont have an AB with the gibby..
I just learned something today. thanks mutt. I've never understood how pick ups work. I still don't fully understand. But i am getting there. Slow Learner haha.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

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Here's a quick mix I threw together this afternoon. This is just some silly Gerg-pop-punk crap and I wanted to see how the Mutt90 would work with the amps fairly mild, but loud, and played pretty aggressively.

This is just some programmed drums, my usual guitar-amp bass, and all the guitars are the SG w/ Mutt90 bridge pickup.

Left channel -
Marshall 100W Plexi, two 57s set center and edge on a Greenback in a 4x12, both mics on axis, on grill, 50/50 blend.

Right channel -
Marshall JCM 800, same cab/speaker/mic setup as left channel.

Lead -
JCM 800 boosted with a Tube Screamer, two 57s set center and edge on a Celestion G12-65 in a 4x12, both mics on axis, on grill, 50/50 blend

No EQ on any guitar tracks. Little tiny bit o' reverb in the DAW.
Mutt90 mix.mp3
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by muttley »

Thats pretty cool. It records well... rounds out nicely and fills the space without getting all in yer face. Really nice tight mids, no brittle after taste. Love it.

I'm so gonna drop a vocal on that and use it on my promo's..... :guitarhero:
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:06 pm Thats pretty cool. It records well... rounds out nicely and fills the space without getting all in yer face. Really nice tight mids, no brittle after taste. Love it.

I'm so gonna drop a vocal on that and use it on my promo's..... :guitarhero:
Lol. Go ahead.

Yeah I really like how it goes from fairly dirty when laying into it to super tight in the palm mutes. I love a dynamic relationship like that between pickup and amp and how you play it. Normally I'd do a song like this with a bit more gain, but I like the way it came out.

I'll try a more gained up run at it this weekend.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by muttley »

I havent played it on a really good set of monitors yet but I recon if you ramp up the gain on it you'd also be able to unleash the bass a bit along side it. The bottom end on that pup sounds pretty tight and you could lift the whole thing from the bottom with a fatter bass sound behind it. Just a thought.. The pup sounds really well rounded to my ears. You done a good job catching what I would consider one of the typical p90 sounds.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by rayc »

Greg,
Cool little PU demo ditty.
Is the Tubescreamer just boost or some gain as well?
Cheers
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Lt. Bob »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:17 pm I just learned something today. thanks mutt. I've never understood how pick ups work. I still don't fully understand. But i am getting there. Slow Learner haha.
they work just like a generator.
Move ferrous metal through a magnetic field and you gets 'lectricity.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Bill L »

Great stuff. Defiantly sounds like you, Greg. Nice full sound. :not worthy:
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:33 am Greg,
Cool little PU demo ditty.
Is the Tubescreamer just boost or some gain as well?
Thanks Ray. The Tube Screamer is boost only. Max output, no dirt. But a Tube Screamer does impart it's own fingerprint on the sound even with no gain dialed into it. It's like a tight bottomed mid-hump kind of sound. Great for leads. :metal:
Bill L wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:37 am Great stuff. Defiantly sounds like you, Greg. Nice full sound. :not worthy:
Thanks buddy. :like:
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Lt. Bob »

by the way ...... I know this is about p'ups and not playing but, as always, I just stopped for a minute in awe of teh gergs' palm muting ability.

I have to write a song that needs that since I have the best guy at my disposal.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by muttley »

Lt. Bob wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:40 am ...................I just stopped for a minute in awe of teh gergs' palm muting ability.

...............
Nah, it's all in the quality pickup....... :wink:

I got your bits yesterday Lt, I will be starting them along with JD's this week.
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Re: Mutt90 Soapbar - Vintage spec - Gerg

Post by Greg_L »

Lt. Bob wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:40 am by the way ...... I know this is about p'ups and not playing but, as always, I just stopped for a minute in awe of teh gergs' palm muting ability.

I have to write a song that needs that since I have the best guy at my disposal.
Haha thanks Boob. I guess it's cuz I'm also fairly quick at the drumming and can keep it going for a long time. Palm muting and hi-hatting is not all that different. It's all in the wrist. People that play drums or strum guitars with too much arm motion go slow and wear out. You gotta be limp wristed. :nyuk: :lollers:
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