This I have a compression query

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JD01
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This I have a compression query

Post by JD01 »

As I said I think this is to do with compression but I'm not sure.

Basically, I have a centred lead vocal and two panned (75%) backings. The backings have a touch more verb than the lead vocal, which just double the lead vocal.
All the vocal tracks have a similar compressor on them which then goes to the compressor on the chorus vocal folder and then the overall vocal buss folder compressor.

What's a bit weird is that the when the panned backings come in it's like the lead vocal gets automatically turned down. I don't mind the effect as it sounds cool in this context, it just wondering why.

This song originally had some other backing vocals in between lead vocal lines, but overlapping with the lead line slightly. This caused a problem cos the start of the lead line was getting turned down to compensate so I had to turn them off.
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Greg_L
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by Greg_L »

Lol. Too many compressors. You're overloading that last compressor and it's squashing everything down. And/or your ratio is set too aggressively for
that much signal going in. Watch Tadpui's compression video on his youtube channel.
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Bubba
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by Bubba »

What Greg said. And I'd keep your main vocal out of the vocal buss folder. You don't want your BVs to elbow your main vocal out of the way like that. I often use two compressors on the main vocal buss with an aggressive vocal. I track through one, too.
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JD01
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by JD01 »

Cool - I might try adding those extra backing vocals back in when I get time, although I've got used to the way it is now. It actually causes another unexpected but good effect in another part of the song. What I might try to add them back in is just moving the backings out somewhere else and keeping the vocal mix as it is for now. I am curious as to why there is a preference for the backing vocals though, they're not appreciably louder, just a little more verb.
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:26 am Cool - I might try adding those extra backing vocals back in when I get time, although I've got used to the way it is now. It actually causes another unexpected but good effect in another part of the song. What I might try to add them back in is just moving the backings out somewhere else and keeping the vocal mix as it is for now. I am curious as to why there is a preference for the backing vocals though, they're not appreciably louder, just a little more verb.
I don't think you're understanding how or why compressors work the way they do. You're overusing and overloading the poor things and they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do. It's also probably why you seemingly can't get rid of all that room sound in your vocal tracks.
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ido1957
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by ido1957 »

Are the backing vocals the lead vocal part or a harmony part?

If the latter, I'm currently set up like this:
Track - Lead Vocal
Track - Lead Vocal 2 (Compressed to hell using a stack of 3 compressors)
Tracks - Backups (lot of tracks) panned L/R

Leads both go to same bus (usually with a CA2A comp in the FX Bin set for -2 db reduction )
Backups (panned slightly 35%??) go to their own bus (don't usually compress ITB)

Both those busses go to a final "All Vocals " bus which then goes to Master

I do find that the Lead Vocal bus needs a gain reduction otherwise I fight to get the vocals to sit back and not take over in the Master Comp.

I just started compressing a lot harder going in on vocals, (like 5 instead of 2 on a scale of 10). Still a work in progress for the tone, not so much the compression.
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JD01
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by JD01 »

Cheers Ido - gonna take me a little while to get my head around that lot.

The only backing I have left on it now is two doubles of the lead panned L/R - they step on the lead a bit but it creates a cool unintended effect as its just doubling

Initially I had some gang vocals on there two, but where they were overlapping with words they were squashing them out so I just took them off.
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Greg_L
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:53 am Cheers Ido - gonna take me a little while to get my head around that lot.

The only backing I have left on it now is two doubles of the lead panned L/R - they step on the lead a bit but it creates a cool unintended effect as its just doubling

Initially I had some gang vocals on there two, but where they were overlapping with words they were squashing them out so I just took them off.
Just separate your backing vocals from the lead vocals. Stop running them all together. Do you run the guitars and bass together into one buss? No, so don't do it to vocals either. You could have 100 tracks of gang vocals and they won't interfere with the main vocal if you keep them separate.
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Farview
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by Farview »

I agree with everyone else, too many layers of compressors. (Not sure what a vocal folder is/does)

Anyway, if you do keep all the compressors, turn down the backing vocals until they don't push the lead vocal out of the way.

But, you probably should back off on the compressors. Try to use them for the sound of compression, rather than controlling the dynamics.
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JD01
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by JD01 »

Greg_L wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:08 am
JD01 wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:53 am Cheers Ido - gonna take me a little while to get my head around that lot.

The only backing I have left on it now is two doubles of the lead panned L/R - they step on the lead a bit but it creates a cool unintended effect as its just doubling

Initially I had some gang vocals on there two, but where they were overlapping with words they were squashing them out so I just took them off.
Just separate your backing vocals from the lead vocals. Stop running them all together. Do you run the guitars and bass together into one buss? No, so don't do it to vocals either. You could have 100 tracks of gang vocals and they won't interfere with the main vocal if you keep them separate.
Yeah will do. I'm still relatively new to working with vocals so I just have a folder for verse vocals and chorus vocals - won't be any hassle to add more to break them up a bit.
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Greg_L
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by Greg_L »

Two groups is fine. A main vocal group and a backup vocal group. You can get away with that all day long. But don't then run those two groups together through another compressor. That's partly what's fucking you up.
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rammer24
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Re: This I have a compression query

Post by rammer24 »

I always have 2 groups, sometimes more depending on my back vocal situation. I might have back vocals that are just harmonies to the lead, and I might have "Gang" vocals that need a completely different type of treatment (more reverb, delay, whatever).

But I give the lead it's own folder, and the backs their own folder, etc...


Farview, in REAPER, a "Folder" is just a group of tracks that get bundled together. I guess it's really just a bus. You can have a drum folder, vocal folder, etc....
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