December 2017 thing.

General recording topics.
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rayc
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December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

I used Band In A Box to create a drum track for a new song. To get it sorted properly I needed to put the progression in and mark changes from intro, verse, chorus, solo etc. I then needed to select a tempo & style.
I let the machine do it's thing and
...here is the drum track - no effects, EQ or reverb at this point...
December17 BBdrumz.mp3
Here's the way the machine/software/program built an arrangement and such based on the selected style.
By clicking a button the arrangement will re tweak itself and make some variations. This can even be done on an instrument by instrument basis having a death metal drum track with a bossa nova bass and Hillbilly strings etc.
Note ALL tracks are RealTracks which means they were played by a real person on a real instrument, recorded and sliced up. A keen user can even make their own RealTracks to use in the machine.
To me it sounds sterile, boring and there are some chords etc that sound different to the rest. I also note that the files can be exported as sep. tracks to be used in a DAW. The program will even generate a melody and solos based on the chords, key & style. All a bit far for me. I've used the drums quite a bit, the organ once or twice and that's more than enough.
There're LOTS of people out there using the whole program with the melody/solo makers to complete their/the program's songs. Most of them sound like you'd expect.
December17 BBauto (1).mp3
Maudlin Lyrics - well they'll do for the moment until I find/write something more appropriate:

I‘m not going to ride
The train wreck anymore
I'll go to bed when fried
Yet wake up on the floor
I’ll eat sometime passed noon
Dinner when inclined
Comforted by mundane things
At least those I find.

Just coffee and memories
For the bad old days aren’t gone
I’ll drink a toast to those who boast
Of sex lives almost porn
It's a long, cold time 'til sunrise
Lays wasted on the lawn
I'll not believe another lie
For my heart’s already torn.

When the mood arrives
I might tidy the room
I'll pull the sheets straight
And gaze into the gloom
I'll know that I’m quite mad
Lost now and long ago
Where you and I were one
So far as I could know.

Just coffee and memories
For the bad old days aren’t gone
I’ll drink a toast to those who boast
Their success in Babylon
It's a long, cold time 'til moonrise
Lies cold upon the lawn
I'll not believe the tears I cry
For my heart’s already torn.

When I have nightmares
I can’t see through anymore
I’ll light a fire inside
And open every door
And throw my words away
Invite the darkness in to stay
I lay me down but cannot sleep
No matter what you say.

Just coffee and memories
For the bad old days I’ve read
I’ll drink a toast to those who boast
Survival thought they’re dead
It's a long, long way from sanity
Be prepared for the ride
As now I know I will not sleep
Ever by your side

I‘m not going to ride
This train wreck anymore
I'll go to bed when tired
Yet wake up by the door
I’ll eat my heart alive
Now that I’m inclined
Comforted by mundane things
At least those that I find.
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Cheers
rayc
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ido1957
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by ido1957 »

Wow ! Mix sounds excellent and I'm really diggin' drums/bass/guitar tones. The arrangement/writing is melodic and appealing (for guys like me who love pop tunes). :like: :like: :like:
People want something for nothing, they want it right now. Either they can't tell quality or don't care but feel it is important that everyone agrees with them.
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vomitHatSteve
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by vomitHatSteve »

So none of it's you then?

Seems a waste of all the gear and experience you've built up over the years! :D
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rayc
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:48 pm So none of it's you then?
Seems a waste of all the gear and experience you've built up over the years! :D
VHS,
No playing by me at this stage. I intend to keep the drums though and replace the rest.
I posted it as an example of what the program does and how it can assist or impede the writing & recording process.
Normally I don't even listen to the arrangement as I mute everything but the drums and focus on that track to get it sorted. Once I'd done that this time I decided to post what, on the 1st run through, the program did.
Here's an example of a completed song by someone using ALL BIAB except for vocals.
XXXXX: Vocal / tripled with various combinations of echo/delay added to each track.
RD: BoomChickaEv16
RT 2421:Bass, Acoustic, RockabillySlapBoomChicka
RT 2424:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm RockabillyBoomChickaKevin
RT2423:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm RockabillyBoomChickaBrent (comped from regenerations)
MIDI SuperTrack 2470: Piano, Rhythm RockabillyBoomChickaKevin
Effects: Logic Pro X Delay, Logic Pro X “Blue Echo” pedal sim, Nectar 2, Neutron, EMT 140 Plate Reverb sim and Addicted Keys Upright Piano sound.
Mic: Rodes NT1 / Focusrite interface
Mix: Logic Pro X
Master: Ozone 8 Advanced

I've not found BIAB able to create any convincing aggressive guitar ROCK.
Lots of users create backing for solo & duo gigs and play it "live" from the program as well as just from a saved track.
As this has gone off track - my fault - I'll ask Shan to move it to a more appropriate section.
Last edited by rayc on Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rayc
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rayc
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

To make this a more Digital method for Dummies Program or Digital UberTools for Lazies I've used BIAB to generate a solo for the intro, solo section and fade out.
I picked finger picked acoustic so that it would be quite different to the rest of the songs tones but, when I played it the guitar was too gentle so I threw a simple sim over it to give it some bite.
My version of the prog is from late 2010 so isn't as flash as the 2018 edition now out. I don't really know how to generate the solo or melody for a given section so the solo I did have it create was for the entire track. I just automated it in & out.
I know that fans of the prog with generate new solos & comp the best bits together. I can't be bothered as I don't plan on using the prog for anything more than drums & the occasional organ.
Here's the track with solos...
Dec7wsologd.mp3
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Last edited by rayc on Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rayc
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vomitHatSteve
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by vomitHatSteve »

rayc wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:17 pm I've not found any convincing aggressive guitar ROCK created by BIAB users.
Have you seen anyone re-amping it? I suspect that would help a lot on the guitars. (Any sort of pre-rendered/vsti/etc guitar usually seems way too clean)
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WhiskeyJack
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Hold on now. This is a piece of software that 'sims everything' for a lack of better terms?
:happytrees:
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rayc
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:30 pm Hold on now. This is a piece of software that 'sims everything' for a lack of better terms?
Shan,
No sims. Actual recordings but then pieced and reassembled.
Would you move this to the Digital Method section please?
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rayc
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rayc
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:09 pm
rayc wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:17 pm I've not found any convincing aggressive guitar ROCK created by BIAB users.
Have you seen anyone re-amping it? I suspect that would help a lot on the guitars. (Any sort of pre-rendered/vsti/etc guitar usually seems way too clean)
VHS,
I don't know of anyone that has. The users that I've come across/listened to like the way it sounds or live with how it sounds. I'd rather record my own than reamp what they put up.
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

rayc wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:33 pm
WhiskeyJack wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:30 pm Hold on now. This is a piece of software that 'sims everything' for a lack of better terms?
Shan,
No sims. Actual recordings but then pieced and reassembled.
Would you move this to the Digital Method section please?
move = Done.

So are the actual recordings yours? i'm confused i may have to google how this thing works.
:happytrees:
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rayc
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:36 pm
rayc wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:33 pm Shan,
No sims. Actual recordings but then pieced and reassembled.
Would you move this to the Digital Method section please?
move = Done.
So are the actual recordings yours? i'm confused i may have to google how this thing works.
Shan,
All I did was select a style, tempo & enter the chords. The program did the rest.
No midi - just pieced together snippets of actual playing by some professionals who's names I don't recognize.
The solo is generated by the software as well.
I find it interesting but not inspiring.
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rayc
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

Now, Using the structure & the drums that were sketched out in BIAB I've started to put in sketch/scratch guitar & bass tracks.
It's quite possible that folk prefer the computer generated ones but that's life here's my beginning...
Dec17V1.mp3
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JD01
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by JD01 »

I'm kind of impressed and horrified by this at the same time.
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rayc
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

JD01 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:22 am I'm kind of impressed and horrified by this at the same time.
It's exactly that.
LOTS of people use it and don't add anything but a voice. The program comes with an external DAW so that it c an be used more creatively, (there's even a button to click for DAW linkage so I can, for example have Reaper up and BIAB as well, create a bass line or a drum track and click the DAW button & drag the BIAB track I want directly into a track in Reaper.), though I suspect that isn't used too much as the main section of BIAB has levels, panning & reverb.
The latest version - 2018 - even has video built in so you can highlight a section of the bass line and a video of someone playing that bass line, (images that don't include faces), then slot in the drums for a passage ,(drums shot from above), etc.
I have the 2011 version - based on current patterns I'd say released in late Nov 2010 and it's much more basic and big on midi, (something I care nothing about) but does an OK drum & hammond thing so I'm happy. I did upgrade last year - added some additional RealTracks - a couple of gigs worth for $50.
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JD01
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by JD01 »

rayc wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:06 am
JD01 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:22 am I'm kind of impressed and horrified by this at the same time.
It's exactly that.
LOTS of people use it and don't add anything but a voice. The program comes with an external DAW so that it c an be used more creatively, (there's even a button to click for DAW linkage so I can, for example have Reaper up and BIAB as well, create a bass line or a drum track and click the DAW button & drag the BIAB track I want directly into a track in Reaper.), though I suspect that isn't used too much as the main section of BIAB has levels, panning & reverb.
The latest version - 2018 - even has video built in so you can highlight a section of the bass line and a video of someone playing that bass line, (images that don't include faces), then slot in the drums for a passage ,(drums shot from above), etc.
I have the 2011 version - based on current patterns I'd say released in late Nov 2010 and it's much more basic and big on midi, (something I care nothing about) but does an OK drum & hammond thing so I'm happy. I did upgrade last year - added some additional RealTracks - a couple of gigs worth for $50.
Probably a voice with the shit autotuned out of it too. Add the generic pop chord sequence and some shit lyrics and sell it to the kids.
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vomitHatSteve
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Did you guys read that Medium piece about the guy doing essentially this same sort of thing but with Fiverr?

Computers are even replacing gig economy jobs! :D
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rayc
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Re: December 2017 thing.

Post by rayc »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:29 pm Did you guys read that Medium piece about the guy doing essentially this same sort of thing but with Fiverr?

Computers are even replacing gig economy jobs! :D
Starting at $5.
This is a variation on the new under cutting e conomy.
Being that I usually co-opt someone to sing & play solos I can understand this process and there are otehr versions out there that are based on helping/sharing/back scratching. I wonder what the developers cut is?
At least it's real people - I hope - each one could have BIAB at home & just throw it in & sell the result.
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rayc
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