MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

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JD01
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MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

Right, I basically have no idea what I'm looking for.

I want to learn to play the piano. I might at some point consider using piano in recording but probably not.
I know I want a "full size" on with 88 keys and that's it.

I want to be able to plug it into my computer so I can try using different piano VSTs but I figured it would also be handy for using with EZ Drummer to make things a bit easier to programme and probably more fun too. I'm starting to hate mousing clicking.

Might be fun to cock about with other virtual instruments too, strings, horns and stuff.
Ideally I want something that will work with my Focusrite 2i2.

Anyone know what I'm looking for? Any recommendations? What sort of things do you have to look out for?
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Tadpui
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by Tadpui »

Remember that the 2i2 doesn't have midi in/out, so any midi controller would have to be USB into your computer. Or I guess that midi interfaces are relatively cheap, so you could get one of those if you want to use 5-pin.

I've only owned 2 midi controllers, both very entry-level. Just a couple weeks ago I got the 2nd one, which is a Nektar Impact. Mine is the 25 key, but they come in 49 and 88 key models. I wanted something sized for a desktop, and this won out for the feature set that I needed. I like having knobs to assign to various parameters, some pads to tap out drums, and the transport controls have been surprisingly handy. The fader even works on channel faders in reaper. The full sized keys feel fine to me, but I'm no pianist. They're definitely synth action keys and not weighted like a piano.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by rayc »

You be best to get a keyboard with a USB midi as Tad says.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by Minerman »

Not much help here Jdude, but I've had an Alesis Q25 for a few years, & it's ok...I'm not a piano/keyboard player at all, so I don't need much in that area, but again, the Q25 does ok...

Alesis Q25

You can probably find something as good/better for the same price, probably even cheaper now...
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SweetDan
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by SweetDan »

JD01 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:05 am I want to learn to play the piano...

I know I want a "full size" on with 88 keys and that's it.

I want to be able to plug it into my computer so I can try using different piano VSTs...
That's good. If you truly intend to learn to play the piano, maybe even take lessons, I'd get one of the major brand (Casio, Yamaha, etc.), lower-end digital pianos with semi- or fully-weighted keys. One downside may be that these types of models rarely include touch pads.
JD01 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:05 am ...but I figured it would also be handy for using with EZ Drummer to make things a bit easier to programme and probably more fun too...
(Maybe; I'm finding it's easier for me to "create"/compose drum parts with more groove by actually playing the drums, even on my little kick/snare/hats "kit". Banging out drum hits on a keyboard or touch pads may give better results than mouse clicks, certainly, but YMMV.)

Whatever you do, make sure the keyboard or digital-piano can speak MIDI over a USB port, which you can then connect to your computer to mess around w/virtual instruments and laying down drum tracks.
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JD01
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

Cheers guys. All real useful.
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JD01
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

OK, since posting this before things have changed slightly. I now have the full sized Focusrite 18i20 which should have all the suitable MIDI in capability on it.

I'll be asking around elsewhere anyway, but if any of you could at least give me a starting point that would be really helpful.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by CeeBee »

I'd go for one wth its own sounds, even if they are not the greatest. That way you can tinker away without having to set up a synth in your pc. I bought the behringer Motör 49 which is great, with motorized faders et al., but I find myself neglecting it because I have to have the laptop running and some software, and once I do that I get distrackted and start messing aroud with sound design.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by Lt. Bob »

CeeBee wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:24 am I'd go for one wth its own sounds, even if they are not the greatest. That way you can tinker away without having to set up a synth in your pc. I bought the behringer Motör 49 which is great, with motorized faders et al., but I find myself neglecting it because I have to have the laptop running and some software, and once I do that I get distrackted and start messing aroud with sound design.
^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^
And even lower end keyboards have decent sounds.
in my solo gig I use Toland XP 50s and XP60s .... they're basically ancient but the sounds are quite good.
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JD01
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

Cheers guys. I'm actually hoping to be able to make a move on this after the end of October.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by Tadpui »

Good to hear, JD.

In the 1.5 years or so since this thread was created, I still use my little Nektar Impact LX25+ frequently. Mainly I love having DAW transport and fader controls right on the keyboard. I've been using that feature more lately. It's just really nice to be able to start/stop recording without leaving the keyboard (I'm a poor keyboardist so I have to do lots of takes :) ). And while Reaper tends to get confused about which track the fader should control, when it works it's nice to do quick-and-dirty leveling as I add virtual instruments to a mix.
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JD01
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

Right... I don't know what any of that means... but I'll assume it's useful... even though I'll probably never get it to work.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

What you think of this:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/nektar-impa ... 1MQAvD_BwE

Better still, this:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/nektar-impa ... dYQAvD_BwE

EDIT: Also, [mention]Tadpui[/mention] I know yours is the small version but what sort of on board piano sounds and stuff does it have?
Aside from using it as a MIDI controller I do want to actually use it to learn to play the piano.

Quick question for when I'm say programming MIDI drums - can you overlay multiple takes over the same MIDI strip? e.g. I won't have the finger dexterity initially to programme a kick, hi hat and snare together in one take, what I'd want to do is pop in my kick and snare, then add my hats afterwards - is that how it works.
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JD01
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

[mention]Tadpui[/mention] I'm looking at a keyboard with 88 fully weighted keys which seems pretty handy for using as a MIDI controller and learning to play the piano.

However, it doesn't have the old 5pin MIDI. Just has a USB. Do you know if this will be a problem cos I won't be plugging it into my interface but straight into my computer.

Also, given that this is has properly weighted keys, at the price point it's pretty light on features like faders/drum pads etc. Is any of this shit that useful really?

https://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards-an ... a2EALw_wcB

This thing.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by paulman »

This is the one I'm looking at upgrading to: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ontent=btn

I currently have a Nektar Impact LX-88. The velocity sensitivity on it is a bit random. If you really want to learn piano, it's important that you have a realistic feel and response. I'm wanting to get more serious about my own playing, which is why I want a more serious keyboard. The one in the link you posted sounds good, if it's all they make it out to be in the description. I just have a hard time taking Casio seriously.

USB is all you need, it's designed to plug right into your computer.
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JD01
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

paulman wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:02 pm This is the one I'm looking at upgrading to: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ontent=btn

I currently have a Nektar Impact LX-88. The velocity sensitivity on it is a bit random. If you really want to learn piano, it's important that you have a realistic feel and response. I'm wanting to get more serious about my own playing, which is why I want a more serious keyboard. The one in the link you posted sounds good, if it's all they make it out to be in the description. I just have a hard time taking Casio seriously.

USB is all you need, it's designed to plug right into your computer.
I feel the same thing about Casio... to me, I just end up imagining cheesy bosa-nova demos on my little toy thing I'd have had in the 80s.

What' you've said about the Nektar has just knocked it off my list.

The reviews I've read/watched of the Casio suggest that its pretty incredible for the money and that its feel/response is excellent.
It seems to have no "Bloat" on it. It basically does fuck all else except work as a piano/keyboard with a handful of sounds. There's no pads, faders, pitch wheels. I'm gonne get a friend of mine who's actually a good pianist to play it and tell me what she thinks.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by Lt. Bob »

JD01 wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:38 pm
Quick question for when I'm say programming MIDI drums - can you overlay multiple takes over the same MIDI strip? e.g. I won't have the finger dexterity initially to programme a kick, hi hat and snare together in one take, what I'd want to do is pop in my kick and snare, then add my hats afterwards - is that how it works.
I feel sure you can.
On my Roland XPs I can do the kick ..... come back and do the snare .... come bac over and over.
it's all done within the keyboard but it's a MIDI track so I think that's gonna be doable with any MIDI sequencing.
The Roland gives me the option of 'replace' or 'mix' when recording another drum so it can keep what's there and add to it or simply erase and replace.

And I don't play drums but I'm quite used to playing drums on my keyboard which is velocity sensitive .... for me I imagine I could do drums way better on my keyboard than on a kit because that's what I'm used to.
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by JD01 »

Cheers, Bob
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by Tadpui »

JD01 wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:10 am @Tadpui I'm looking at a keyboard with 88 fully weighted keys which seems pretty handy for using as a MIDI controller and learning to play the piano.

However, it doesn't have the old 5pin MIDI. Just has a USB. Do you know if this will be a problem cos I won't be plugging it into my interface but straight into my computer.

Also, given that this is has properly weighted keys, at the price point it's pretty light on features like faders/drum pads etc. Is any of this shit that useful really?

https://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards-an ... a2EALw_wcB

This thing.
That looks great, and I bet that the weighted keys will be a great benefit to this over the controllers that I have. Mine are undeniably "synth action" and don't resemble real piano keys at all. Not a problem for me since I basically chop-stick my way through most things that I try to play on keys. But to a proper pianist, weighted would be the way to go.

As far as USB, I agree with Paul that it's no problem. As long as you have a free USB port or a USB hub, that connection works great. Low latency and I haven't had any issues, as long as drivers are installed.

Oh and for the MIDI layering thing: In Reaper, right-click on the track arm button on your MIDI track, and take a look at Record: MIDI and you can select how it records. You're looking for the option called Overdub, which is what you'd want in order to layer instead of replace. I do that a lot when I want to make a 2nd pass to control the hihat pedal open/close with the mod wheel, since I don't have enough hands to do it all in one take of drum recording :)
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Re: MIDI keyboard - don't know what I'm talking about

Post by paulman »

JD01 wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:24 am What' you've said about the Nektar has just knocked it off my list.

The reviews I've read/watched of the Casio suggest that its pretty incredible for the money and that its feel/response is excellent.
It seems to have no "Bloat" on it. It basically does fuck all else except work as a piano/keyboard with a handful of sounds. There's no pads, faders, pitch wheels. I'm gonne get a friend of mine who's actually a good pianist to play it and tell me what she thinks.
I'm glad I could help you narrow things down a bit. Let me know how it goes when your friend tries it out. If it has good response, I'd rather spend less on that than the one I'm looking at. The feel is really all that matters. Obviously you can use whatever samples or synths you want on your computer, so it doesn't matter what the internal keyboard sounds are like, if it even has any. Mine doesn't.
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