Hey Miner! (MIDI drum / Reaper weirdness

[Armistice]

I'm having an issue (after doing this for years without this issue) where when I render a track in Reaper, the crash cymbals are being cut off at the end, probably of the MIDI item.

It doesn't do this on playback via Reaper, just on rendering to MP3 - which makes no sense at all.

Ever heard of this?

I've had various other weird things going on with Reaper and MIDI this song but this one can't be ignored. Perhaps I might try gluing all the MIDI items together into one long one to see if that fixes it, but it's got me beat at the moment.

Let me know if you have any thoughts.

(I would assume it's doing it to all sounds, not just the crash, but that's the only one you'd really notice as it's way longer than everything else....)

[WhiskeyJack]

What happens when you change the the length of how long that last midi note plays for at the end of the song? Like, if you change the note in the midi roll from the drum triangle or diamond style to just a regular midi note and drag it to how long you want it just so reaper knows to keep going while rendering.

I can't say i have had this issue during render in particular, but i have had issues where the midi note length was being a jerk with drum notes. that typically fixed it.

[Armistice]

What happens when you change the the length of how long that last midi note plays for at the end of the song? Like, if you change the note in the midi roll from the drum triangle or diamond style to just a regular midi note and drag it to how long you want it just so reaper knows to keep going while rendering.

I can't say i have had this issue during render in particular, but i have had issues where the midi note length was being a jerk with drum notes. that typically fixed it.

Hmm. I get where you're coming from, but this is new behaviour. I've never extended a drum hit (I'm using the standard MIDI notes anyway) in the five years that I've been doing this - because they're all point in time hits and the sound does what the sound does after the official end of the MIDI note. It never mattered. And it shouldn't.

The other thing is that this is only on render, not on playback, which makes no sense - the instructions to deal with "stuff" should be identical.

My #1 theory is that this is an introduced bug that someone has since rectified in a later release, and I'll just upgrade (again!) Reaper and see if that fixes it.

If that doesn't work, I'll try just rendering the drum track and see how that fares - I'll have a better idea of exactly when it ends the note - there being 20 or 30 crashes in the song and it happens every damn time.

The other weird thing is that in the VSTi, I have the main ride on a particular "note", say 60, then the variations on 61,62,63, and another ride and variations on 64,65, 66 etc. Now when I open the VSTi interface, and click the 60 note (which has the ride written against it) I get the ride, but when I go into Reaper and open a MIDI window and click 60, I get a hi-hat of some description - and looking across at the VSTi interface window, 60 is still lighting up, indicating the hit is going in the right place, but the noise is wrong. I found the actual ride hit had moved to 59 in the Reaper MIDI window, which is a blank slot in the VSTi interface list, so to get around this, I dragged all the main ride hits down one in the individual MIDI windows. Some strange channel transference going on there. Makes no sense, and has nothing to do with the other issue, except as an indication that there's something wrong in MIDIland in my version of Reaper, hence why I'm thinking 'upgrade' as first attempted solution.

The crash sound, when it ends, sounds more like a choke (SSD4 has crash choke commands) than a cutoff - so perhaps in this iteration of Reaper, when rendering, given what I said above, the crash choke is being set onto something, perhaps a hi-hat, as well.

A common problem with rapid release software like Reaper - bugs are introduced all the time because there's insufficient testing done due to the sheer complexity of the beast. Here's hoping.

[WhiskeyJack]

What happens when you change the the length of how long that last midi note plays for at the end of the song? Like, if you change the note in the midi roll from the drum triangle or diamond style to just a regular midi note and drag it to how long you want it just so reaper knows to keep going while rendering.

I can't say i have had this issue during render in particular, but i have had issues where the midi note length was being a jerk with drum notes. that typically fixed it.

Hmm. I get where you're coming from, but this is new behaviour. I've never extended a drum hit (I'm using the standard MIDI notes anyway) in the five years that I've been doing this - because they're all point in time hits and the sound does what the sound does after the official end of the MIDI note. It never mattered. And it shouldn't.

The other thing is that this is only on render, not on playback, which makes no sense - the instructions to deal with "stuff" should be identical.

My #1 theory is that this is an introduced bug that someone has since rectified in a later release, and I'll just upgrade (again!) Reaper and see if that fixes it.

If that doesn't work, I'll try just rendering the drum track and see how that fares - I'll have a better idea of exactly when it ends the note - there being 20 or 30 crashes in the song and it happens every damn time.

The other weird thing is that in the VSTi, I have the main ride on a particular "note", say 60, then the variations on 61,62,63, and another ride and variations on 64,65, 66 etc. Now when I open the VSTi interface, and click the 60 note (which has the ride written against it) I get the ride, but when I go into Reaper and open a MIDI window and click 60, I get a hi-hat of some description - and looking across at the VSTi interface window, 60 is still lighting up, indicating the hit is going in the right place, but the noise is wrong. I found the actual ride hit had moved to 59 in the Reaper MIDI window, which is a blank slot in the VSTi interface list, so to get around this, I dragged all the main ride hits down one in the individual MIDI windows. Some strange channel transference going on there. Makes no sense, and has nothing to do with the other issue, except as an indication that there's something wrong in MIDIland in my version of Reaper, hence why I'm thinking 'upgrade' as first attempted solution.

The crash sound, when it ends, sounds more like a choke (SSD4 has crash choke commands) than a cutoff - so perhaps in this iteration of Reaper, when rendering, given what I said above, the crash choke is being set onto something, perhaps a hi-hat, as well.

A common problem with rapid release software like Reaper - bugs are introduced all the time because there's insufficient testing done due to the sheer complexity of the beast. Here's hoping.

Weird. that's strange man. It further convinces me that never updating reaper is a solid choice. I don't know why. I just never update it when it asks for it. I don't really run in to too many issues.

What VSTi are you using? I know that when i updated my EzDrummer from one update to another maybe (1.2 to 1.3 ?) i had that exact thing happen to me with the ride / hi hat issue. And if i recall that was a toontrack blunder. It was a while ago though. Pre EZD2.0 I just manually moved all the notes where hey needed to go at the time.

Might be worth having a dig around in the reaper forums too to answer your initial question pending minernuggs retort. that was the best thing i could come up with off the top of my head.

[Armistice]

Weird. that's strange man. It further convinces me that never updating reaper is a solid choice. I don't know why. I just never update it when it asks for it. I don't really run in to too many issues.

What VSTi are you using? I know that when i updated my EzDrummer from one update to another maybe (1.2 to 1.3 ?) i had that exact thing happen to me with the ride / hi hat issue. And if i recall that was a toontrack blunder. It was a while ago though. Pre EZD2.0 I just manually moved all the notes where hey needed to go at the time.

Might be worth having a dig around in the reaper forums too to answer your initial question pending minernuggs retort. that was the best thing i could come up with off the top of my head.

Isn't it! I only upgraded as the version I had was crashing every time I rendered. Hadn't touched it for years. I assume something else I'd loaded into the system since was fighting with it. So it fixed that problem (and I had to buy a new licence! ) but now I have another one.

What's most annoying is that I'm stuck at work for another 6 hours and can't go home to work it out!

[Minerman]

Sorry I haven't replied here dudes, I've been busy with the new kit...

To be honest, I really have no idea why your cymbals would sound choked, are they doing it all through the song, or just at the end??? If it's only doing it at the end, extend the time selection further so it'll render the whole cymbal decay, if it's all through the song, check all your midi notes, you may have a rogue note causing havoc somewhere...

Lemme know if you get this sorted or not Armistice, if what I've suggested above doesn't work, I'll have you send me the midi file, possibly even the RPP (Reaper project file)...

[Armistice]

Sorry I haven't replied here dudes, I've been busy with the new kit...

To be honest, I really have no idea why your cymbals would sound choked, are they doing it all through the song, or just at the end??? If it's only doing it at the end, extend the time selection further so it'll render the whole cymbal decay, if it's all through the song, check all your midi notes, you may have a rogue note causing havoc somewhere...

Lemme know if you get this sorted or not Armistice, if what I've suggested above doesn't work, I'll have you send me the midi file, possibly even the RPP (Reaper project file)...

No probs Miner. They're (crash only) doing it all through the song - every crash, every time. I upgraded Reaper this morning and it did nothing. I'll have to go in and check the files in more detail I think.

It's that it's only happening when rendering that is throwing me - why would that be any different to playback. Doesn't happen in playback. No time right now, I guess I'll tinker tonight.

[Minerman]

No probs Miner. They're (crash only) doing it all through the song - every crash, every time. I upgraded Reaper this morning and it did nothing. I'll have to go in and check the files in more detail I think.

It's that it's only happening when rendering that is throwing me - why would that be any different to playback. Doesn't happen in playback. No time right now, I guess I'll tinker tonight.

I find it odd that it only does this when rendering dude, & to be honest, I have no idea what could be causing it to do that...Don't forget if you wanna, send me the midi file or the RPP...I'd be glad to take a look at it for ya...

Since I'm here asking, which kit/expansion are you using, and have you re-mapped any of the midi notes???

Lemme know dude...

[Armistice]

No probs Miner. They're (crash only) doing it all through the song - every crash, every time. I upgraded Reaper this morning and it did nothing. I'll have to go in and check the files in more detail I think.

It's that it's only happening when rendering that is throwing me - why would that be any different to playback. Doesn't happen in playback. No time right now, I guess I'll tinker tonight.

I find it odd that it only does this when rendering dude, & to be honest, I have no idea what could be causing it to do that...Don't forget if you wanna, send me the midi file or the RPP...I'd be glad to take a look at it for ya...

Since I'm here asking, which kit/expansion are you using, and have you re-mapped any of the midi notes???

Lemme know dude...

Thanks Miner. It's SSD4 and it's a kit I made up, and yes, I have remapped stuff to put it in a logical place because God knows it's a dog's breakfast as stock. I assume they do that so people can play drums on their keyboard or something. Shit everywhere! All that said, this is nothing I don't normally do, and been doing, for years now. I'll have a play around tonight after work and see where I end up!

[Armistice]

Do you know how to access the actual MIDI events in some way in a list/file? That'll be the quickest way to see if there are rogue choke commands in there.

[Minerman]

Do you know how to access the actual MIDI events in some way in a list/file? That'll be the quickest way to see if there are rogue choke commands in there.

Go to the mapping page & you'll see this:


All of the articulations should show up on this page dude, the reason the pic only shows kick/snare is because that's all I'm using from SSD4, the rest of the kit I'm using is from Superior...Since you've re-mapped things (I do that too, it makes it much easier for me to organize everything together), I'm about sure it's a cymbal choke somewhere...

Lemme know if you get this sorted or not dude, I'm curious...

[Armistice]

All of the articulations should show up on this page dude, the reason the pic only shows kick/snare is because that's all I'm using from SSD4, the rest of the kit I'm using is from Superior...Since you've re-mapped things (I do that too, it makes it much easier for me to organize everything together), I'm about sure it's a cymbal choke somewhere...

Lemme know if you get this sorted or not dude, I'm curious...

Hey Miner. I know all about that page as I've extensive remapped the entire kit, I was talking about from the Reaper MIDI editor if there was a way to see the actual file and check the triggered events on a particular item (ie. couple of bars....)

Anyway, I've done more digging. Here's what I know, after doing some isolating and playing.

• It's not just crashes - also rides - ie. anything that's loooooong. Crashes are normally on beat one, so it's not the end of the MIDI item cutting it off, nor is it the end of the actual event as that would be over in a nanosecond. It's longer

• It's happening on other songs. I have two I'm working on - isolated the drums on the other one and same thing - only in render - but it wasn't as obvious on the second song. Thus it's a system thing, not a corrupted song thing.

• If I change the render mode from full speed offline to 1x offline (ie. at the speed of playback), the problem disappears - perfect render

• It is not a resource/PC issue as, during a render, my PC sits at CPU = 0% with occasional spurts to 1%, and memory is never more than 20%. It's a very powerful PC and it would barely notice this type of workload.

It's something in Reaper, and something to do with rendering - so not really a "fake drums" issue per se. It is a recent issue too - never had it before and I've been doing exactly the same thing for years. I might bother the brains at HR and see if they can help. I'll let you know if they come up with anything.

[Minerman]

Hey Armistice,
I remembered seeing this thread a few days ago in the Reaper forum...If I'm correct, this is a JS effect that shows everything related to midi that's happening in a project, so maybe this will help you track down the culprit, hopefully...Right under the screenshot, there's a link that'll show you how to install/use a new JS effect too dude...

Hope this helps man, I'm genuinely curious to what's happening there...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=189126

[Minerman]

Hey dude, have you had any luck sorting this out yet???

Lemme know man, be glad to help if I can...

[Armistice]

Hey dude, have you had any luck sorting this out yet???

Lemme know man, be glad to help if I can...

Nope.

What's happening here Miner, is a bug. Reaper 4.x had no issues with doing what I was doing, but Reaper 5.x is not handling the VSTi the same way and it's chopping the longer notes. Every time.

As a bug, there's nothing I can do to fix it. I have to work around it, which I'll do by rendering in real time, which seems to stop it happening. Hopefully they'll fix it in the future. I'm not going to spend any more time searching for a solution as I don't think there is one.

[Minerman]

What's happening here Miner, is a bug. Reaper 4.x had no issues with doing what I was doing, but Reaper 5.x is not handling the VSTi the same way and it's chopping the longer notes. Every time.

As a bug, there's nothing I can do to fix it. I have to work around it, which I'll do by rendering in real time, which seems to stop it happening. Hopefully they'll fix it in the future. I'm not going to spend any more time searching for a solution as I don't think there is one.

Wow dude, sorry to hear about your troubles with Reaper 5, FWIW, I've really had no issues at all on my end, & if so, it's usually user error on my part...That just sucks man, wish there was something I could do to help...

I'm assuming you've been to the Reaper forum to address this, right??? Those guys are usually pretty quick about getting things sorted, so hopefully the issue will be taken care of for you...

[Armistice]

Wow dude, sorry to hear about your troubles with Reaper 5, FWIW, I've really had no issues at all on my end, & if so, it's usually user error on my part...That just sucks man, wish there was something I could do to help...

I'm assuming you've been to the Reaper forum to address this, right??? Those guys are usually pretty quick about getting things sorted, so hopefully the issue will be taken care of for you...

I haven't yet, but I will - I just don't want to disappear into tech fix mode if I have a workaround when I'm trying to finish some tunes. I might fire up Addictive and see if it has the same issues. I'll let you know what, if anything, happens.

[Minerman]

I haven't yet, but I will - I just don't want to disappear into tech fix mode if I have a workaround when I'm trying to finish some tunes. I might fire up Addictive and see if it has the same issues. I'll let you know what, if anything, happens.

Ok man, keep us posted, you never know when that might rear it's ugly head for someone else...