I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

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SweetDan
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I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by SweetDan »

The youtube algorithms recommended this form me today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGs-8rP2dw

It's very interesting and well-recorded comparison of 11 different snare drums. In fact, it's one of the better "comparison" videos I've found because it's approached much more scientifically than most of the crap videos on youtube. It may be impossible to control for *every* variable, but in this video at least, they made an attempt with the high-, medium-, and low-tuned variants.

Anyway, I digress; I don't claim to be a drummer, and until fairly recently, hardly even "listened" to the drum parts of music with an ear for figuring out how a given drum part or sound works.

After listening to this, I'd argue that shell material makes almost no difference in the sound of a snare drum; what matters most in your snare drum sound is how tight (or loose) you tune the heads.

That's your topic, that sentence ^^^^^ right there; discuss.

---

EDIT: another one youtube recommended was this -- The Unfortunate History of the AMC Pacer -- sounds like a great title, but don't think I'll spend the time watching it.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Greg_L »

I've been saying that for years and years and years forever and ever. So many people have lost their shit arguing with me about it and they're wrong wrong wrong. Drum shell material (typical common construction) means virtually nothing. Nothing! Heads and tuning means everything.
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Lt. Bob
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Lt. Bob »

Much like with solid body guitars. A former RP'er did a comparison on facebook where he built two identical teles out of drastically different wood and set it up so he swapped out all the electronics and hardware so the ONLY thing that was different was the wood in the body and necks and he carefully recorded clips of each.

They sounded identical.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by rayc »

The TONE WOOD for drums thread!
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Farview
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Farview »

I didn't watch the video, but I would agree that the shell material doesn't make that much difference. However the shell construction and size will, as will the choice of heads.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:47 pm I've been saying that for years and years and years forever and ever. So many people have lost their shit arguing with me about it and they're wrong wrong wrong. Drum shell material (typical common construction) means virtually nothing. Nothing! Heads and tuning means everything.
Based on this if i were to say i wanted to learn to play drums and wanted to start with a cheap 500 dollar kit, as long as i upgraded the heads before leaving the store, and they were a reputable top shelf product and the first step in that journey was to learn to tune them correctly, that would be a good enough kit to start out on?
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:58 pm

Based on this if i were to say i wanted to learn to play drums and wanted to start with a cheap 500 dollar kit, as long as i upgraded the heads before leaving the store, and they were a reputable top shelf product and the first step in that journey was to learn to tune them correctly, that would be a good enough kit to start out on?
Fuck yeah absolutely.

Even better would be to go one step up from the cheapest budget kit. The really beginner stuff often has shitty hoops and cheap lugs and maybe even fewer lugs per drum than the better stuff does. All of that conspires to make tuning drums a bitch.

Just going up a step in range to a decent "working man's" kit and adding the better heads and tuning will yield a nice kit that you may never have to upgrade.

You can make a budget kit sound good with heads and tuning. And you can also make a $15,000 DW kit sound like absolute shit with junk heads and poor tuning.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Farview »

The other thing about bottom of the line kits is the hardware is made out of cheese. The drums may be serviceable, but if you can't mount them to anything, they are worthless.

Go ahead and look at used kits as well. There are some pretty good deals on really nice stuff.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Tadpui »

Just curious: why does a Ludwig Supraphonic sound so awesome compared to other snares? Aren't they chrome over brass or something? Why don't all 14" snares sound that awesome?
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Greg_L »

Tadpui wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:23 pm Just curious: why does a Ludwig Supraphonic sound so awesome compared to other snares? Aren't they chrome over brass or something? Why don't all 14" snares sound that awesome?
I don't know, but Supras are just better. My guess would be the thinner shell. I think the Supraphonic is a little thinner than most metal-shell drums. And they can be tuned pretty much however you want. Wood shells have a much narrower range. Other metal snares have a pretty wide range, but not like the Supra.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Farview »

Supra's are chrome over aluminum (Ludalloy). I think Greg is right, it's the thinness (thinth?) of the shell.

The Ludwig Black beauty is also in the same ballpark, but is brass. It's probably not as popular because it's four times the price.

To tell you the truth, the acrolyte snare was pretty awesome too. I'm pretty sure it was the same shell as the supraphonic, but without the chrome and it only had 8 lugs instead of 10. But is was a really good sounding cheap snare. 10 years ago, you could get a used one for $75 or less.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Greg_L »

Farview wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:02 pm Supra's are chrome over aluminum (Ludalloy). I think Greg is right, it's the thinness (thinth?) of the shell.
The new-ish ones are Ludalloy. The old vintage 60s/70s Supras are "COB" - chrome over brass. I personally don't hear any difference between new or old because they all sound good no matter what you do to them.
The Ludwig Black beauty is also in the same ballpark, but is brass. It's probably not as popular because it's four times the price.

To tell you the truth, the acrolyte snare was pretty awesome too. I'm pretty sure it was the same shell as the supraphonic, but without the chrome and it only had 8 lugs instead of 10. But is was a really good sounding cheap snare. 10 years ago, you could get a used one for $75 or less.
Yup to all of that. :coolstorybro:
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Tadpui »

Good to know, thanks fellas. My Acrolite is sadly sitting in a stack of drums in my basement, since I'm unable to realistically set them up in my current house. I miss that thing. Actually I miss my whole kit. While I don't have much personal point of reference, I thought that the Acrolite sounded pretty terrific. I got mine off of Craigslist for $90, a sweet bargain as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by SweetDan »

Greg_L wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:14 pm ...junk heads and poor tuning...
I'll assume that tuning is a learn-able skill. So, how do I avoid junk heads? What are the characteristics of a good drum head, and what do I look out for in the junk ones? EDIT: Or is it more of "don't buy the lowest-end ones", and change them out when they're worn?
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Greg_L »

SweetDan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:40 am

I'll assume that tuning is a learn-able skill. So, how do I avoid junk heads? What are the characteristics of a good drum head, and what do I look out for in the junk ones? EDIT: Or is it more of "don't buy the lowest-end ones", and change them out when they're worn?
Of course tuning can be learned and honed and perfected. It's not as simple and mindless as guitar tuning, but it's not difficult.

When I say "junk heads" I really mean more like heads that aren't suited for the sounds you want and/or using heads that are way past their prime. Or over-muffling drum heads. My goodness, so many people fuck up their own drum sound by over-muffling the heads. You actually can't really buy low quality drum heads. Any replacement drum head you find at a music shop is going to be pretty good quality. The trick is choosing the right heads for the job and then tuning them.
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by vomitHatSteve »

This thesis is essentially "the notes you play are more important than the instrument you play them on"

Which should be pretty obvious after you think about it! :D
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Re: I'll give you a topic..shell material has less effect on the sound of a snare than tuning..discuss.

Post by Lt. Bob »

vomitHatSteve wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:25 am This thesis is essentially "the notes you play are more important than the instrument you play them on"

Which should be pretty obvious after you think about it! :D
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