The Fake Drums Thread

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The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

Just thought I'd put my usual drum programming tips/tricks up for anyone that might need it...

Here's a few tips & tricks to help you guys who use midi drums, to get 'em sounding more realistic...Right off the bat, what I suggest here isn't "the" way to program midi drums, it's just quite a few things I've learned over the years & wanna pass it on to others who might find this useful....

There are four common occurrences that are dead giveaways for fake drums:

1) Use a little common sense, & try to think like a drummer...
In a lot of programmed drum tracks, I hear a lot of fills and beats that sometimes just can't happen with a real human drummer. A drummer has two hands and two feet.Two of those hands are hitting drums, the feet work the kick drums, hi-hat, maybe a cowbell, whatever. You can't have too many things landing on the same beat. How can two toms be hit at the same time as two cymbals? They can't, unless you have an octopus playing the drums. In that same vein, and this is the harder part for programmers, they try to fill too much space with too many drums. Real drummers like to bang around, but a good drummer doesn't cram every available space with fills, beats, cymbal crashes, ghost hits, etc. A good drummer plays the song. Listen to AC/DC. Phil Rudd does nothing behind the kit, but very few bands have the locomotive rock drive that AC/DC does. It's a like a Panzer tank flying down a mountain. Keep it simple and keep it like a real drummer would play it if you can. Naturally some genres like prog have more complicated drums. Then you can go wild, but still keep it within the limits of an actual human with only two hands and two feet...

2) Dynamics/Velocity
This is always a dead giveaway. Programmed drums can very easily sound like a typewriter. A real drummer, even a good one, doesn't hit every drum the same way every time. The sound of a snare can change just by switching from the hats to the ride. When a drummer goes to the ride and "opens" their upper body, sometimes the snare whacks tend to fatten up due to not having their hi-hat hand riding over the top of their snare hand. Simply put, they can hit the snare flatter and harder. So that happens. We all have a dominant hand. When rolling around the toms, usually a drummer's right or left hand will hit a little harder. Maybe he'll hit harder on the quarter notes and the eights might be a little softer. Like ONE-e-and-uh-TWO-e-and-uh-THREE-e-and-uh...and so forth. Stuff like that goes a very long way towards killing the typewriter sound. And of course, drummers aren't robots. We don't stay exactly on the grid at all times. A good drummer will use the click track as a guide, not a rule...

3) Cymbals
I don't know what anyone can do about this, but sampled cymbals always sound like ass to me. Good drum packs use real drums for samples, and they generally sound good, but I don't know what happens with the cymbals. You're just stuck with generic sounding boring ass cymbal sounds. Like the actual drums, using dynamics goes a long way towards making cymbals not sound all the same. A drummer won't hit the hats the same way every time. He won't hit a crash the same way every time. Vary it up. A good ride cymbal is like 4 cymbals in one. Where you hit it yields different sounds. When you're pinging the bell, mix in a few body hits...

4) The Stereo Spread
Drum programmers that haven't spent much time with real drums don't seem to understand that a kit is not 70 feet wide, and most drummers tend to set their kits up the same way with just a few little variations. The hats and ride are rarely ever on the same side. Toms usually go from small to big around the kit. Kicks and snares are centered. Have some spread on the toms and cymbals, but going all the way wide is distracting and sounds weird. Having a crash or tom pop in and out of one ear is just awkward. Keep it realistic. Find the toms in your fake overhead tracks, and pan the close mic'd toms in it's corresponding area of the overheads for a natural sound...

Another really important thing is: don't over-process what are probably already processed drum samples. Further compression and EQ just makes them worse. Go easy. They probably already sound fine as-is. Real drums don't sound like plastic machine guns. Draw in your dynamics, timing, and use smart panning and drum samples left alone will probably sound much better than trying to murder them with further processing...



Here are a couple little things I use for adjusting velocities for my drums using Reaper... These kinda get 'em in the ballpark, but you might wanna adjust/edit some hits here/there...

You'll need to make a toolbar in the midi editor for each one , & you can name 'em whatever you like on the toolbar...

MIDI Note Selector

Randomize Velocities with GUI

EDIT 3-3-2017:
Dropbox has changed, so there's an extra click or two, but the files are there...If you have any problems, lemme know...


1) download the scripts above (You can choose the folder, you just need to make sure Reaper knows where they are)
2) open the Action list

This is how to add a script into the "Action list" (and how to make a MIDI toolbar button):


Image


These 2 scripts are really handy, for example a drummer might hit the 1st & 3rd snare hits a little harder, these scripts allow you to select the 1st/3rd hits, so you can adjust their velocity, without having to go through selecting each hit one by one, which is a great time-saver for me....

Just remember to make a time selection so the note selector "knows" what you want selected, & the scrollwheel changes the notes that are selected...

I'm actually biting the bullet, & learning to play my e-kit, so hopefully my days of drum programming are numbered, either way, I hope somebody finds this useful...

***UPDATE 1-25-2017***
This falls under the velocity section, buy may be worth mentioning in it's own little section...We'll call it (because I can't think of anything else that fits it any better):

Velocity "Headroom"
Since I've stressed how important having different velocities are, here's a little guide I try to go by....Try to have each hit (especially a hi-hat or ride cymbal) have a difference of at least "7" between 'em...
IE: A simple 8th note beat:

Image

If you look at the velocity levels, you'll see each hit has a difference of at least "7" between each one...The first hi-hat hit's velocity is 74, the next is 44, next is 88, & so on...You'll learn as you go that a lot of drummers hit the hi-hat that falls with the snare a little harder than with the kick...Of course there are no rules, but I've had pretty good success using the "difference of 7" in my programmed drums...It isn't so obvious in the example pic above, but a hi-hat playing 16th notes would become more apparent...

But, this can also be tricky at times...Say you've got a rockin' song where everything has pretty hard/high velocity hits...It's easy to max everything out on a song like this, & may not have the effect you're looking for...It may help to try & plan out where the max velocities need to be, have that section as your "max", then lower the velocities in the parts that lead up to it, with each part gradually building up to that part...

So just a little planning, & thinking ahead may save you lots of trouble down the road if you ever run into this situation...I know I have, many times, so I'm trying to pass on what I've learned to help someone...Remember, there really are no rules, whatever sounds good, is good...
Last edited by Minerman on Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by JD01 »

Thanks miner, this is still on my to do list.
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Minerman wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:40 am 3) Cymbals
I don't know what anyone can do about this, but sampled cymbals always sound like ass to me. Good drum packs use real drums for samples, and they generally sound good, but I don't know what happens with the cymbals. You're just stuck with generic sounding boring ass cymbal sounds. Like the actual drums, using dynamics goes a long way towards making cymbals not sound all the same. A drummer won't hit the hats the same way every time. He won't hit a crash the same way every time. Vary it up. A good ride cymbal is like 4 cymbals in one. Where you hit it yields different sounds. When you're pinging the bell, mix in a few body hits...
A little trick i do to make programmed cymbals sound less canned is this.

1: reduce the stereo spread. to me that is ALWAYS the dead giveaway to fake drums to me. For a home recorder guy to have that over produced massively wide stereo spread on his symbols just always gives it away. So i typically will go into (in my case ezdrummer) the plug ins mixer, nudge the sliders to a point where the symbols sound almost, but not quite mono. then bump them up a little tiny bit so there is some stereo. But just enough that once you add your reverb and any kind of spatial treatment into the mix it'll be hardly noticeable. Plus the spatial / reverb blanket can kind of swallow up my next point.

2: you already touched on velocity's, So just to add to your original point, i find velocity is most helpful here at this stage. throw in a velocity every so often that just kind of resets the sound of the cymbal. never in any kind of on tempo rhythm just randomly throw a wongo velocity in there. it makes it just a bit more believable. If possible maybe throw an odd hit in there as well like chink the bell or a different part of the cymbal if you have the option available to you.

I don't think you guys have heard enough of my mixes to really hear what i hear but i have a few irons in the fire for finishing up in the next little while that you will have a chance to hear it and pick my theory apart.

Great thread minernuggs!!!
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:00 pm
A little trick i do to make programmed cymbals sound less canned is this.

1: reduce the stereo spread. to me that is ALWAYS the dead giveaway to fake drums to me. For a home recorder guy to have that over produced massively wide stereo spread on his symbols just always gives it away. So i typically will go into (in my case ezdrummer) the plug ins mixer, nudge the sliders to a point where the symbols sound almost, but not quite mono. then bump them up a little tiny bit so there is some stereo. But just enough that once you add your reverb and any kind of spatial treatment into the mix it'll be hardly noticeable. Plus the spatial / reverb blanket can kind of swallow up my next point.

2: you already touched on velocity's, So just to add to your original point, i find velocity is most helpful here at this stage. throw in a velocity every so often that just kind of resets the sound of the cymbal. never in any kind of on tempo rhythm just randomly throw a wongo velocity in there. it makes it just a bit more believable. If possible maybe throw an odd hit in there as well like chink the bell or a different part of the cymbal if you have the option available to you.

I don't think you guys have heard enough of my mixes to really hear what i hear but i have a few irons in the fire for finishing up in the next little while that you will have a chance to hear it and pick my theory apart.

Great thread minernuggs!!!
Cool dude, I thought I'd mentioned the panning/spread, but it's still great to bring it up again...Nothing in the whole wide world sounds more fake than EZDrummer/Superior/whatever, when there's a crash cymbal, & it's panned completely to one side or the other, except maybe the "typewriter" velocity thing, those 2 are usually the dead giveaways for programmed drums...

Before Greg & Rami gave me some tips, I humanized the velocities somewhat, but something they both told me really stuck:

Not only does a drum's sound change with different levels of hard/soft hits, but the pitch will vary slightly from one hit to the next because of the position the stick actually hits the drum (IE: dead center, closer to the rim, etc), & even the best drummers can't hit the exact spot on a drum every time....

I'd been doing the drum programming thing for years, but this had never occurred to me, simply because I'm not a drummer, & hadn't been around a real kit since my bar band days...I've never mic'd a kit in my life...I have mixed a few songs with real drums, but I've yet to record any to this day, & I've been doing the recording thing for about 7-8 years now...This was as big an "AHA!!!" moment as when I finally got a mic in a decent spot on a real cab, with some air moving into it, & heard a decent guitar tone come from my daw...It was a game changer, for me anyway...

After that little piece of info finally hit me, I became a fuckin' velocity randomizing nazi :hitler: ...I'd go through an entire song, one section at a time adjusting the velocity for every fuckin' hit...Who knows how many hours I've spent doing just that, adjusting velocities...How many times does the hi-hat get hit during a 4 minute song anyway??? The only answer I can give for that is: a fuckin' lot... :minernuggs: It sounds crazy (and it probably truthfully is), but I gotta say, my fake drums did improve, even if I did adjust 1,000,000's of midi hits/notes, mostly one at a time...

That got me thinkin' "there has to be an easier & faster way to do this shit"...So, I started searching/reading in the Reaper forum...
A lot of those guys are just so fuckin' smart when it comes to that daw, that it's hard to believe some of the things they come up with...
They make me feel like a hillbilly who lives out in the sticks, that don't know his ass from a hole in the ground....oh wait...yeah... :minernuggs:

Dunno what daw you use, but the 2 little scripts for Reaper I posted there, are two of the most helpful little fuckers I've saw...Reaper does have the humanize function (I think "H" when the midi editor is open, can't remember as I use those scripts now), but the 2 scripts save all kinds of time...Just make a time selection (I usually do one part at a time, like the verse, chorus, etc), open the note selector script, use the scrollwheel to select the note #, & away you go...With the note selector, you can select all the notes in the time selection/loop, every other note, every 3rd note, every 4th & so on...What I'm gettin' at here is some drummers will hit the snare a little harder on the "1" & "3" than they do on the "2" & "4", the script lets you pick any of the notes with just a couple mouse clicks & scrollwheel moves, which to me is way better because it's faster (for me), & I can select a whole "section" of hits/notes at one whack...The velocity script is cool because you can randomize between any 2 numbers you want/need (IE: back to the "1" & "3" thing, set the even hits to say, 100-08, then the odd to 110-116, & Bob's your uncle)...

The hi-hat velocities are really important too, because the hi-hat helps the "feel" of the song...Sometimes a drummer will get a little happy right before a fill & hit 'em a little harder for a beat or two...I will say I like to keep most of the hits pretty much on the grid/in time for the most part, as if a drummer is worth a shit, he'll play mostly on the grid...There are times though, that even the best of 'em speed up for a bar right before a fill...There are all kinds of things to do that help make midi drums sound good, but you've gotta be willing to put the time & effort into 'em...

One of the best compliments I ever got was from our own Bubba at HR...I'd posted a song (yes, I do finish them from time to time...), & he thought my programmed drums were real...I think it actually surprised him, because he said the song had "feel" to it...That happened after I drilled Greg & Rami for tips/pointers, learned a few more things, & it all just fell into place...Most, if not all other times, it simply wasn't to be, because I hadn't put the time & effort into my fake drums...

Sorry for the long-ass post, but I got on a roll here...I'm sure this won't be the last time either... :minernuggs:
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Minerman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:49 am
Cool dude, I thought I'd mentioned the panning/spread, ...
Yes. Yes you did. :facepalm2: :lollers:

I read it and then i was just diareeahed my thoughts. I'm an idiot. Sorry dude. hahaha
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:58 am
Minerman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:49 am
Cool dude, I thought I'd mentioned the panning/spread, ...
Yes. Yes you did. :facepalm2: :lollers:

I read it and then i was just diareeahed my thoughts. I'm an idiot. Sorry dude. hahaha
No, no, not at all dude!!! It's pretty important IMO, so it's worth mentioning again & again....
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by miroslav »

Yeah...I have some earlier SD drums tracks where I was just getting going with SD, and the first thing that annoyed me was that the cymbals only really showed up in the OH mics...and they went and panned them hard. Yeah, you can select to let them bleed into some of the other mics, but ther main sound/level/panning is in the OH mics.
Sometimes, with some kits you get four cymbals...and the inner two are more centered...but it still wasn't right to me.

So then I sat down and found how I can get more placement/panning control of individual cymbals (or drums too) by using the X-Drum feature, and simply adding additional cymbals (and/or drums). I could pretty much put them anywhere....and with some creative use of the SD mixer, I could even add the ambience in to match everything else that was already in the kit.

Since then, I've fine-tune 2-3 kits, and I've even narrowed down the overall panning of the drums too, not just the cymbals, since they always tend to give you huge stereo drum kits that come with the packs. They sound good...but they don't always work with every song...having wide stereo drums.

I've thought about going back to a couple fairly completed songs...and replacing the original wide cymbals, or at least adding some cymbal hits that are panned more in the center...that way the hard panned ones will simply sound like additional cymbals...but yeah, when that's all you have, it's a pretty dead giveaway that it's a canned drum kit, no matter how well you sequence the grooves and program the velocities.

Every time I do a new groove and pull up one of my customized kits, and improve on it some more with new tweaks, I save it as another version, so I'm building up a nice little library of good sounding kits.
The canned stuff is great for just getting some drums and maybe to flush out a new tune...but it's hard to make any of them fit just right into new songs without making adjustments.
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Armistice »

OK, help me out here. This is a track for which I haven't recorded vocals yet (see comments about the heat elsewhere). Thought I'd get some feedback on the sound of the drums - in particular snare, but anything else that you think needs tweaking - before I start tracking and mixing vocals and then forget all about it.

Anything else you want to comment on, knock yourselves out - I'll put it in the appropriate forum once it's done, but for now I just have the nagging feeling that the drums, sound in particular, just aren't right.

Thanks dudes.

Forgetting

It's a bit long... no need to listen to the whole thing.. :coolstorybro:
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

Ok dude, here's a few suggestions from me:

The drums as a whole might need to come up in the mix, if this doesn't help, here are some things I would try...

The kick in the beginning needs more volume and/or velocity...I'm assuming this is a more laid-back thing, but I still think it would benefit from more volume & harder hits...

I think you might need to possibly raise all the velocities, but especially during the more intense parts...This is tricky for me because it's easy to run out of "velocity headroom" for parts later in the song (that's just what I call it dude...IE: the snare hits during a verse might be 90-100, then the chorus jumps from 105-115...you still have room to raise the hits, but if you max them out during the 1st chorus, it might not have the same effect in a different part)...FWIW, I rarely, if ever have a velocity of 127 on the kick or snare, other kit pieces sometimes, but again, never on the kick & snare...Which reminds me of something to update the original post with...

The tom that comes in the left speaker/channel is panned out too far IMO...

Most people wouldn't notice, but I can tell this is a Toontrack drum library (or I think so anyway) because of the room/ambience sound...Maybe turn that down, & create your own spaces using reverb sends...If you added the 'verb on the guitars in the daw, send the drums to it...You may have to use the multi-out thing to adjust each kit piece's 'verb level...

Not trying to pick on ya, tear your song down, or anything of the sort...These are some things I'd try if it was me...Lemme know if I can help ya here dude...
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Armistice »

Minerman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:45 pm Ok dude, here's a few suggestions from me:

The drums as a whole might need to come up in the mix, if this doesn't help, here are some things I would try...

The kick in the beginning needs more volume and/or velocity...I'm assuming this is a more laid-back thing, but I still think it would benefit from more volume & harder hits...

I think you might need to possibly raise all the velocities, but especially during the more intense parts...This is tricky for me because it's easy to run out of "velocity headroom" for parts later in the song (that's just what I call it dude...IE: the snare hits during a verse might be 90-100, then the chorus jumps from 105-115...you still have room to raise the hits, but if you max them out during the 1st chorus, it might not have the same effect in a different part)...FWIW, I rarely, if ever have a velocity of 127 on the kick or snare, other kit pieces sometimes, but again, never on the kick & snare...Which reminds me of something to update the original post with...

The tom that comes in the left speaker/channel is panned out too far IMO...

Most people wouldn't notice, but I can tell this is a Toontrack drum library (or I think so anyway) because of the room/ambience sound...Maybe turn that down, & create your own spaces using reverb sends...If you added the 'verb on the guitars in the daw, send the drums to it...You may have to use the multi-out thing to adjust each kit piece's 'verb level...

Not trying to pick on ya, tear your song down, or anything of the sort...These are some things I'd try if it was me...Lemme know if I can help ya here dude...
Thanks miner - I tend to keep my kicks around 60-ish - maybe I should turn them up a bit more. Snares are around 90 - 110, generally. It's SSD4 - and I've sent the individual tracks to a room reverb - I'm using the room and overhead tracks but I'll check how much. The guitar reverbs are tracked that way using a Strymon BlueSky, so they're more "effect" than "natural" reverb. I'll make decisions about all this stuff once I get the vocals tracked and am bedding it all down.

I'll check the tom panning - I think it's sort of set to a default, but maybe I've stuck one out too far.
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

Updated original post with more hillbilly jibberish.... :minernuggs:


Amisitice: It's cool dude, maybe I'm finally starting to lose it here, but I swear they sounded like Toontrack samples to me...I think Slate stuff is great for certain things like hard rock/hair metal, but the samples aren't as dynamic as Toontrack IMO...

Another thing I meant to mention is you might blend another snare in with what you've got, I do this a lot...I've found you can get by pretty easily with blending shells from different sample packs, but obviously the hi-hat & ride cymbals don't always work...I'm a big fan of Toontrack's hi-hats/cymbals, & usually end up blending snare/kick/toms in using something else, or just completely replace 'em...
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Armistice »

Minerman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:29 pm Updated original post with more hillbilly jibberish.... :minernuggs:


Amisitice: It's cool dude, maybe I'm finally starting to lose it here, but I swear they sounded like Toontrack samples to me...I think Slate stuff is great for certain things like hard rock/hair metal, but the samples aren't as dynamic as Toontrack IMO...

Another thing I meant to mention is you might blend another snare in with what you've got, I do this a lot...I've found you can get by pretty easily with blending shells from different sample packs, but obviously the hi-hat & ride cymbals don't always work...I'm a big fan of Toontrack's hi-hats/cymbals, & usually end up blending snare/kick/toms in using something else, or just completely replace 'em...
LOL - I've already got two snares blended in there, I'm just not sure I've got the blend, or the choice, right, which was why I was particularly interested in impressions of the snare sound.

And don't think you're going to offend me miner - I don't lack self belief with songwriting and I basically don't care if people like my songs or not - they're better than most of the crap that gets churned out by the good bodies at HR like our friend :robus:.

Personally I think most people should give up songwriting and leave it to those of us can do it. :smug: :lollers: I exclude everyone here from that assessment, of course. :coolstorybro:

I posted specifically to get feedback because it's the only way to improve the skills I know I'm not so good at - drumming and drum sounds being top of that list. I'll always listen to whatever anyone has to say, however. Even :robus:, for all he's pilloried around here, has given me some useful info at HR. I'm always trying to get better at sound / recording.

It's a busy tune, drum-wise, and I'll look at the ambience levels once I get the vocals done (next week, lord willin' and the creeks don't rise...). All feedback is useful. :punk:
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

Armistice wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:37 pm LOL - I've already got two snares blended in there, I'm just not sure I've got the blend, or the choice, right, which was why I was particularly interested in impressions of the snare sound.
It's cool man, I'm probably telling you something you already know, but I like to use Toontrack snares for the softer sounding hits, then blend Slate snares for the "crack" sound...My experience with all SSD is they're great for rockin' stuff, but they lack dynamics a little compared to Toontrack...Just my opinion anyway....

One of my favorite snare is the white Noble & Cooley in SSD4...Dunno what it is, but it just sounds good to me on a lot of things...
Armistice wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:37 pmAnd don't think you're going to offend me miner - I don't lack self belief with songwriting and I basically don't care if people like my songs or not - they're better than most of the crap that gets churned out by the good bodies at HR like our friend :robus:.

Personally I think most people should give up songwriting and leave it to those of us can do it. :smug: :lollers: I exclude everyone here from that assessment, of course. :coolstorybro:
I've just always tried to be a nice guy, in person, online, whatever...even to :robus: unless he was being a prick toward me...Just making sure I don't step on your toes dude...
Armistice wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:37 pmI posted specifically to get feedback because it's the only way to improve the skills I know I'm not so good at - drumming and drum sounds being top of that list. I'll always listen to whatever anyone has to say, however. Even :robus:, for all he's pilloried around here, has given me some useful info at HR. I'm always trying to get better at sound / recording.

It's a busy tune, drum-wise, and I'll look at the ambience levels once I get the vocals done (next week, lord willin' and the creeks don't rise...). All feedback is useful. :punk:
It's all good dude, just tryin' to help, and I'm no expert by any means, I just have a lot of experience with these drum vsts...Be sure to post when you get some more things done to it dude...
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Armistice »

:coolstorybro: Hey Miner - I was using the Brady Oak as my main snare with the Heuer layered on top. I changed the main one to the NC (which is what I think I normally use - I must have been experimenting) and immediately I'm liking the sound better. More meat.
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

Armistice wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:52 pm :coolstorybro: Hey Miner - I was using the Brady Oak as my main snare with the Heuer layered on top. I changed the main one to the NC (which is what I think I normally use - I must have been experimenting) and immediately I'm liking the sound better. More meat.
Yes sir, that's a good description of that snare to me, meaty...All of his snares I've used are great for the "crack", but lack dynamics a tad compared to other drum vsts...
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Armistice »

So Miner... how much "room" and "overhead" are you feeding back into your mixes?

Using SSD4 (and all the others) there are just so many options - I've tended of late to slap all the toms on a stereo track and the ride(s) on a mono track even though that's probably not how it's done with real drums, but because deciding that I've got too much/not enough ride in a particular drum mix is a PITA to fix when you have to go hit by hit or MIDI item by MIDI item, and having a global volume control generally helps. Same with the toms, although I often do go back hit by hit with them as they're not a huge feature of my programming, generally.

I don't recall that there's a way of doing anything with crashes and other incidental cymbals apart from leave feed them to the OH and room tracks, however.

The amount of snare I feed into the room/OH and the amount of room/OH I feed into the overall mix have a huge impact on the sound of the snare in particular.

Wondering how you approach it all?
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

Armistice wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:02 pm So Miner... how much "room" and "overhead" are you feeding back into your mixes?


Wondering how you approach it all?
Ok dude, here goes:

I use Superior & SSD4 on 90% of my drum tracks, I do have others, but these are my go-to's...I have a folder track, that is basically the overall drum master volume...

The drum folder/master has a compressor, tape emulation, & sometimes a console channel emulation...I don't go crazy with the comp, just barely moving the needle to help "glue" things together a little...Same thing with the tape sim & console, I usually have 'em set where you don't really notice it until it's turned off/bypassed...

Both Superior & SSD4 have the multi-out thing (although SSD4 is usually only 3-4 tracks at the most, depending if I'm blending more than one kick/snare with Superior), but I do what you mentioned with the toms, they go to a stereo track...The only thing I really use in SSD4 is the kick/snare, blended with Superior...While Superior is good, the kick/snare from SSD4 are a lot more prominent in the mix, especially the snare...

On the room thing, I very rarely use any room/ambiance tracks from any of my drum vsti's, instead, I use a couple 'verbs in a folder too (room & plate), sending all the kit pieces to them, with a varying amount for each (I don't like a lot of 'verb on my kick)...The reason I do this is I try to make it sound like all of the instruments were recorded in the same space (guitars/vocals/drums all go to the reverb tracks)...

On the oh thing, I use Superior's oh's, & I try to have them kinda low in the mix really, as the cymbals/hi-hats are usually dead giveaways that they're not real...I do use the bleed in Superior, everything goes into the oh track, again at varying levels...Usually the snare, toms & hi-hat is pretty prominent in the oh track, but I dial the kick back a little...

The oh track in Superior's mixer has the width/pan faders, & I usually set them to 50L & 50R, hard panned cymbals are another dead giveaway for fake drums...

That's about it dude, I might have an eq on a kick channel, but 99% of the time, I'm cutting, not boosting (IE: high pass the kick(s) so they don't overtake the low end)...Once in a while I might have a compressor on a snare, but not very often...I've learned using drum vsti's, the less post-processing, the better, for me anyway...
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

Bumping this due to Dropbox change, links in the original post should still work... :minernuggs:
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Minerman wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:46 pm Bumping this due to Dropbox change, links in the original post should still work... :minernuggs:
This thread is stickied mister. For ever shall it remain bumped and at the top. :coolstorybro:
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Re: The Fake Drums Thread

Post by Minerman »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:10 pm
Minerman wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:46 pm Bumping this due to Dropbox change, links in the original post should still work... :minernuggs:
This thread is stickied mister. For ever shall it remain bumped and at the top. :coolstorybro:
Yeah dude, thanks a bunch!!! I was just letting everybody know that the links for the scripts had changed because Dropbox is changing some things that goes into effect the 18th of this month...
Just trying to make sure everything I upload/link works dude... :minernuggs:
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