Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

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Minerman
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Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

The little e-kit I have (Yamaha DTX400) is ok, but is not very expandable, at all...I knew this when I bought it, but as usual, I chose a cheaper route which has basically came back to bite me on the ass (yet again... :mrgreen: )...

The DTX400 module does have a 3-zone input for the snare, meaning I can use a drum pad/cymbal that has 3 different triggers in it, but that's about as much as it will expand...

I bought a used Yamaha DTXplorer module a couple weeks ago, modded my hi-hat controller to work like it should, & the next thing on "the list" for me will be to buy some mounting hardware, along with another cymbal (for now)...

Here's basically what it is now:
DTX400 pic 1.jpg

And here's what I hope to accomplish before too much longer:
E-kit plan.png

Really, I have the biggest part of this bought/done, since I have the extra module...I'm gonna buy a used 3-zone snare & ride cymbal, so it won't take a whole lot for me to get this rolling, a couple more pads with some clamps/hardware...

I gotta admit, although this still ins't like recording a real kit, I'm really starting to like playing these things...It's a hell of a lot better than programming the midi, & is pretty satisfying to be able just to record instead of spending hours using a mouse... :mrgreen:
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Greg_L »

Hell yeah. At least you're playing. Those three zone pieces should help a lot.

What about a kick drum pad? Something you can hook up to an actual kick pedal. I can't imagine that isolated foot thing is much like a real kick pedal.
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by rammer24 »

Thats very cool. Yeah, for kik drum, can't you just put a censor on an old pad, or even a piece of wood, and play a real bass pedal? Other than that, kudos to you for actually playing.
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

Thanks guys...Just wanna let both of you know that you're a big reason I'm learning to play these things...I hear your tracks, then see you guys play in your vids, & it's just so cool that you guys are so good at this shit...I'll never catch either of you, but I will learn to play the simple-simon things my songs need...

It's very satisfying just to sit down behind the kit, & hit record, even at my kindergarten playing level ...I'll post a vid up before too long, but I'm working on my playing here...gimme a little while & I'll show you guys a long-haired gorilla beatin' on an e-kit... :lol:

I'm having sort of a hard time with knowing how hard I'm hitting (IE: sometimes the snare hits are around 70-80, sometimes they're lower/higher), & learning on a cheap kit like this may be hurting me more than helping right now, but like I've done all my life with everything, I'm making the best I can with what I have... :mrgreen:

Another thing that's probably spoiling me is the sounds I'm using...I'm mainly using Superior Drummer because it's just simple to set up with the e-kit, but I've got all kinds of drum sounds here that I've hoarded up over the years...If/when I get a real kit, I'll be ruined because of the sounds I'm used to getting, & I know I won't be able to do that right off the bat mic'ing a real kit...

I'd planned on buying the Jamstix 4 upgrade when it comes out (virtual drummer program), but I don't think I will now because playing these things, although I know is a long way from a real kit, is a hell of a lot quicker, & more fun than using a mouse...

The multi-zone pads will surely help too, as I won't have to change any of the midi notes/hits after I record 'em...There's no way I'll buy those things new though, the 3-zone cymbal ain't too bad ($150 new, for the cymbal, boom & mounting hardware), but a new, 3-zone snare with the mounting hardware is around $300, so I'm gonna hit e-bay for those...

On the kick, yeah, I can buy a tower with a trigger in it for about $70, then buy a real kick pedal...Or I could go the diy like Rami mentioned, the piezo/trigger can be in anything really, as long as it can be triggered, & is able to "sense" how hard/soft the hit is (velocity sensitive)...

I'm planning on making a diy cowbell before too long, whenever I get around to that I'll show the process to you guys....

Thanks again, I appreciate the support & help from you guys...
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:58 pm Thanks guys...Just wanna let both of you know that you're a big reason I'm learning to play these things...I hear your tracks, then see you guys play in your vids, & it's just so cool that you guys are so good at this shit...I'll never catch either of you, but I will learn to play the simple-simon things my songs need...
Lol. You may never reach Rami's level, but you could surpass me with about a month of practice. :lol:
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:28 pm Lol. You may never reach Rami's level, but you could surpass me with about a month of practice. :lol:
Dude, don't sell yourself short here now, everybody knows the Gerg can play some fuckin' drums...

And no, I'll never reach Rami's level, I honestly know & accept that...but I am practicing every day now, matter of fact just got done playing for a couple of hours...
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

A little update to my e-kit guys...I pulled the trigger on some used stuff from e-bay, same guy I got the module from...The "big" thing I popped for is a 3-zone 13" ride cymbal, with the boom & hardware clamp to attach it to the rack...A couple small things were a couple rack tubes so I can change the configuration around...Bought 2 - 24" tubes along with a 20", with a few connectors/clamps...Grand total was right around $100 shipped, if I'd bought new, the cymbal alone is $99, not including the cymbal mount/boom, & the extra clamps for the rack tubes (which are about $20 each...), so I did pretty good, I think...If I'd bought all this stuff new, it'd been close to $300 for it all...

So, here in a few days, I'll have the 3-zone ride (edge, bell & bow sounds), along with 2 crash cymbals...The next thing on "the list" will be another snare, I'd like to have a 3-zone, but will have to wait & see what's out there used, just can't see paying more for a new snare pad than my whole kit cost...

I'm actually stoked about this, I've been faithfully playing/recording for a few hours everyday, & I'm beginning to get better at it, plus enjoying it more as I go...

Pics to come, maybe some clips...I'm doing my best to record these songs without editing the midi afterward, that was my crutch when I first bought these drums...I feel like it's "cheating" by editing the midi...But I'm doing my best to record 'em like a real kit...
I've got a long way to go, but I get a little better at it everyday...:minernuggs:

Something I've found about the 2 modules is when I use both of them together, I have to adjust the crosstalk levels (in short a pad/cymbal triggering that's not supposed to) in the newer module, which surprised me, at first I thought it was the older one...Most likely I'll use the older module for the kick/toms & the newer DTX400 for the cymbals/hats, as the cymbals I have work better (more dynamics) with it (makes sense, the pads were made for the module...)...

Again, pics to come...
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Tadpui »

The upgraded kick pedal for the DTX has an extra expansion port on it. It's the one that hooks up to an actual kick pedal, with a beater and everythingb. A TRS cable runs to it, and passes one of the contacts on to an expansion port that defaults to another crash cymbal. But you can configure it to be whatever you like. I upgraded mine with the 3-zone snare (which is good but not great), and moved the old single-zone snare pad to be a 4th tom pad. The floor tom arm will juuuuuuust accommodate 2 pads, but barely. One pad is pushed all the way against the upright, and the other is hanging on by a thread (the clamp only fits half-way on, but it's stable and works).
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

Tadpui wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:30 pm The upgraded kick pedal for the DTX has an extra expansion port on it. It's the one that hooks up to an actual kick pedal, with a beater and everythingb. A TRS cable runs to it, and passes one of the contacts on to an expansion port that defaults to another crash cymbal. But you can configure it to be whatever you like. I upgraded mine with the 3-zone snare (which is good but not great), and moved the old single-zone snare pad to be a 4th tom pad. The floor tom arm will juuuuuuust accommodate 2 pads, but barely. One pad is pushed all the way against the upright, and the other is hanging on by a thread (the clamp only fits half-way on, but it's stable and works).
Cool dude, I sent you a pm here a week or so ago asking if you'd wanna sell any of your e-drum parts, but I take it from this post it ain't gonna happen... :minernuggs: It's cool though dude....

I'm eventually gonna get a better/real kick pedal, but for now the silent swifty I've got will do...I'm gonna get my cymbals & rack lined out before I worry about the kick, & I plan to use my old snare pad for my 4th tom when I get around to a new/better snare...

Since you mentioned the 4th tom barely squeezin' onto the rack, I did some pretty serious hillbilly sipherin' on mine, & changed it around a bit...I'm gonna (when they get here in a few days) use the 20" tubes that are the "feet" to extend my rack, with a couple 24" tubes as rear legs...That should give me enough room for the ride, 2nd module, 4th tom, & more, when I get around to it all...The pic in the 1st/original post here basically shows how I'll set it up...

I'd wondered about the 3-zone snare with the DTX400 module, did you buy the pretty white silicone head snare??? Those look nice, & I've read lots of good things about 'em, but holy fuck they're expensive new....The "regular" 3-zone snare pad is only like $100, which ain't bad, but the 8" & 12" are pretty high IMO...$270 for the 8" or $400 for the 12" is just a bit much for me anyway...

Since these things are something I'm gonna be bashin' around on, I'm gonna go used, for a while anyway...Until I can learn to actually play, I've found a guy on e-bay that has some pretty decent deals IMO...Then, maybe I might spring for something new, but if that happens, hopefully it'll be a real kit...
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Tadpui »

I fished around and now I see the PM. Sorry, it wasn't obvious to me that I had a notification!

Looks like you've got quite a plan with your monster kit :)

I'm really on the fence about my e-kit. A couple of months ago, I was totally ready to sell it since I have acoustic drums now. But since I now have no idea what my home studio situation is going to be over the next year or so, I've been thinking that I'll keep them for now in case I can't set up my real drums in the new house for a while. I've been really spoiled with my soundproofed room! The good news is that my new basement is huge. Ceilings are too low for my liking, but I'll have lots of space to sprawl out once I can afford to get the space finished out.
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

Tadpui wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:13 pm I fished around and now I see the PM. Sorry, it wasn't obvious to me that I had a notification!
It's cool dude, I know life's been crazy for you with the move & all, plus a new forum on top of all that...don't worry 'bout it dude... :minernuggs:
Tadpui wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:13 pmLooks like you've got quite a plan with your monster kit :)
Yeah man, I finally made up my mind to stop fuckin' around programming the midi, sit my ass behind the e-kit I bought 2 years ago & do what I should've already done...I can keep making excuses about my health, or get off my ass & do something, ya know??? I can't believe I've had that kit for 2 years...It's still practically brand new...
Tadpui wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:13 pmI'm really on the fence about my e-kit. A couple of months ago, I was totally ready to sell it since I have acoustic drums now. But since I now have no idea what my home studio situation is going to be over the next year or so, I've been thinking that I'll keep them for now in case I can't set up my real drums in the new house for a while. I've been really spoiled with my soundproofed room! The good news is that my new basement is huge. Ceilings are too low for my liking, but I'll have lots of space to sprawl out once I can afford to get the space finished out.
I'd wondered how the new pad was gonna affect your music Tad, & I truly hate that you had to leave the place you'd put your heart into...But look on the bright side, you know the formula to make a killer space, & I'm sure you've learned things since then, so you can make the new pad even better dude, I've got confidence in ya...

Over here on my end, seems I've jumped into trying to be a half-assed drummer...I play 2-3 hours everyday, sometimes more...I suck at it now, but I'm gonna keep after it, hopefully it'll get better...I literally have all day, every day to do whatever, so I'm trying to buckle down on this e-kit...

On the gear-side, I bought an older DTXplorer module, & I have a 3-zone ride with some rack tubes on the way...Once I get another snare pad, that'll pretty much wind up what I had in mind for my e-kit, other than another pad or two for a cowbell or tambourine...There isn't much difference in the modules really, the only thing I don't like about both of 'em is the midi/usb...The DTX400 has usb out, but no midi, the DTXplorer has midi out, but no usb...I can still use 'em both at the same time though, I just have to do some creative routing in Reaper, but it's really not an issue...

I spent $15 on a force sensing resistor that I slapped into my hi-hat controller, & now I can trigger all the articulations in the drum vst's...It is very sensitive, & I'm still working with it, but it's a lot better than it was, out of the box the hi-hat controller only did open/closed articulations...You could do the pedal chick & splash, but it would only trigger 2 articulations with the cymbal pad, which sucked...I'd be curious to see what your controller has in it...If/when you get some time, take some gut shots of it for me...
I'd be pretty curious to see the difference between the one I have, & the HH65 controller... :minernuggs:
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Tadpui »

I never did upgrade the hh controller. I had the hh65 in my amazon shopping cart multiple times but I never pulled the trigger on it. One time I actually went to buy it and it was out of stock. Another time it was horrendously expensive. Then I forgot about it.

Man I'm glad to hear that you're hammering away every day. It's good exercise. I wear outhem in a hurry on dryms. I can't make it all the way thru exile on main St or physical graffiti yet. My poor technique makes my hi hat hand ache after a few minutes. I've gotta work on that!
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

Tadpui wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:00 pm I never did upgrade the hh controller. I had the hh65 in my amazon shopping cart multiple times but I never pulled the trigger on it. One time I actually went to buy it and it was out of stock. Another time it was horrendously expensive. Then I forgot about it.

Man I'm glad to hear that you're hammering away every day. It's good exercise. I wear outhem in a hurry on dryms. I can't make it all the way thru exile on main St or physical graffiti yet. My poor technique makes my hi hat hand ache after a few minutes. I've gotta work on that!
OK, I thought you had the HH65 dude, my bad...If you're interested in a cheap mod that will make your hh controller better than stock IMO, you can just replace the on/off switch with a FSR here: E-drum HH Controller Mod

It makes it really sensitive, which is hard to control how open/closed it triggers, but I'm working on mine still trying to tame it a little...Not sure, but another resistor may help this dunno, I'm not really too sharp with things like that, but in theory, if I put a resistor between the sensor & the output jack, it may reduce the amount of signal going to the daw...I'm gonna order a handful of different value resistors just to try, they're dirt cheap, & it would be easy to try, plus if it didn't work, I really wouldn't be out anything...

Keep at it dude, it is good exercise, & of course, the more you do it, the better you'll get...Not sure if it'll help your actual skills on a real kit, but if nothing else it'll build your stamina up...
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

So, my ride cymbal never arrived, had to sort some shit out, supposed to be on it's way...again...

In other news, I'm probably gonna go all-out diy on the rack...I'm gonna build the main frame from 1" pvc pipe, which should cost about $20 at the most, that will free up almost all of the connectors I currently have, plus all the rack tubes I've got now can go toward further expansion...I've thought long & hard about this, so I'm about to head to the local hardware store...

I've read a lot of things about using pvc vs. regular aluminum tubes, & the only things I can see think of would be:

1) Strength - If I have a long tube, the pvc might sag with some weight, but for drum pads, I really don't think it'll be an issue...No longer than the tubes will be, & no more than the drum pads weigh, I don't think it's gonna be an issue...If I were using real drums, I can see where it might be a problem, but I'm not...

If it does cause a problem, I can always reinforce it with a 90/45° tee/elbow, which I may do anyway on the longer spots...

2) Vibration - Another thing that might pop up would be vibration (false triggering of a pad/cymbal), but I'm already getting that at times with the 2 modules, so I don't think using pvc will have much, if any affect on it really...Strangely, when using just 1 module (either the DTX400 or the DTXplorer), this never happens, but it should be pretty easy to sort out really...

I've got a couple things I'm gonna try to see if I can remedy this...The first one is using a bicycle inner-tube between the pad & rack tube...Since the pvc pipe is actually a hair smaller than my aluminum tubes, I'll have to do this anyway, so it's not gonna be a big deal, I don't think...

The other thing is to stuff each tube full of old t-shirts, pipe insulation, or something to deaden 'em down a little...This is another cheap fix that I probably should be doing regardless...

Wish me luck, pics to come...
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

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Well, the trip to the hardware store came up bust...The pvc pipe carried locally is either too big, or too small...There's a Lowe's about 45 mins from here, & that's my last shot as far as seeing if it'll fit or not first hand...Probably try again tomorrow, if that fails, I suppose I'll have to just bite the bullet & buy some used rack hardware, which isn't that expensive, but it's not as cheap as the pvc route...

Just one clamp that ties one tube to the other used is about $5, not including shipping, new they're about $20 each...If I can find what I need, I can build basically my entire rack for about $20-30, without having to use a single clamp I already have...
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

My ride cymbal & other shit finally got here today....I'll post a pic or two in a little while, gotta set it all up, & do some re-mapping in Reaper...

I'm as happy as hillbilly can be right now... :minernuggs:
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

I finally got around to take a couple pics...I like the ride, it's gonna take some getting used to as the bell area is kinda small, but that'll give me something to shoot for to improve...The ride came with an actual cymbal boom, instead of a little threaded rods that came with the kit, so I'm definitely gonna pick up a couple more booms before too long...

I need a couple more of the t-joint connectors, so I had to put the ride in the center, but it's not a big deal really...I should be able to get a couple cymbal booms & connectors for about $40-50 shipped...I would've gotten 'em this time around, but didn't think I'd need anything else...

I'm impressed with the ride, it looks brand new, no marks on it anywhere, & I didn't even have to change anything in my module, as soon as I plugged it in, the module recognized it...
e-kit 1.JPG

e-kit 2.JPG
I'm gonna try to throw a vid up before long, playing 'em is lots of fun for me, & maybe some of you drummer dudes in here can give me some tips...

This actually turned out to be a pretty good day, considering I had to wait about 2 hours to see my doctor today... :minernuggs:
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

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Just a little update on my e-kit adventure...moved some shit around to make it easier for me to play, & I realize I'm gonna have to buy a couple cymbal booms, with a few more rack tubes to be able to get things where I want 'em...
kit pic 1.JPG
Yes, it's a beautiful mess right now, but there's no sense in trying to be neat/tidy if I'm just gonna be moving shit around again, so...The new 3-zone ride is great, but it also shows how much I need to practice on these things...The bell zone is pretty small, & I've got the module dialed in about where it needs to be, I just need to get my playing up to speed to match...

Next thing on "the list" was gonna be a 3-zone snare, but I may wait until I get my rack set up how I want it...Right now I have just enough tubes/clamps, but I really need more space on my rack, so I might just buy a couple booms, a few rack tubes, & some more clamps...

I also need some cymbal stoppers (keeps the cymbals from spinning/holds 'em in place), but holy fuck if those things ain't expensive, new, they're $44.95 + $8.95 shipping, each... :shock: The guy I've been getting this stuff from has a couple of 'em for $18/each...

I've spent about all weekend playing, & I'm still having a blast with 'em...Maybe before too much longer I'll get enough nerve up to throw a vid up....
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Greg_L »

Looks good Miner. So which one of those UFOs is the new ride?
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Re: Yamaha DTX400 expansion...

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:32 am Looks good Miner. So which one of those UFOs is the new ride?
Thanks dude, it's the ufo that doesn't have half of it cut out dude, here's a pic with the zones explained/shown....
Yamaha PCY100.JPG
The zone for the bell trigger is pretty small dude, about the size of a pop can, & the sweet spot is on the left of the wingnut, which is actually even smaller, but it'll make me a better player in the long run (I'll have to hit that spot, instead of anywhere on the 10" area...)...

The bow zone is pretty big compared to that, & is easy to trigger/play...

The edge zone looks tiny, but it actually works like a real cymbal, just whack it pretty hard (even hitting the bow zone), & it triggers the edge/crash sound, which I think it pretty cool...

This cymbal along with being a 3-zone is choke-able too, I can assign the "choke" midi note & actually grab it like a real cymbal...The other 2 cymbals I have are great for me just bashing around on for a crash, but I'm probably gonna buy a bigger ride (it's about the same, just 15" instead of 10"...they also make a 13" version), & use this 10" (and probably another) for crash cymbals, eventually...

Like always, I can make due with my cymbals for now, so the next thing I'll buy will be another snare, with either 2 or 3 zones, then move the pad I'm using for my snare to a 4th tom...

I'll most likely have to buy a couple more rack tubes & re-arrange things a bit, but I've got a good start, & it's miles beyond what I had with just the stock DTX400 kit...That's a big reason my cables are a mess, I keep moving things to make it better/easier for me to play, but I'll eventually get things lined out...

Oh yeah, I'll be getting a real kick pedal before long too, along with a real hi-hat stand, & do away with the shitty little pedals I'm using now...I'll be able to use the FSR I've got in the hi-hat pedal, & it should work a lot better...

I've even been working on a video or two, so there's your warning, you'll get to see my ugly mug bashing away at these things before too long... :minernuggs:
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