Tuneomatic swap out.

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WhiskeyJack
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Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Ok. I admit defeat. Sort of. Someone here told me a while agothat the Nashville Tuneomatic bridge i bought to replace the stock B2 bridge wasnt goimg to happen. I sat down tonight to try it and sure enough the nashville pegs are half the diameter of the ones that were in there. So that really stinks. I dodnt really want to do any kimd of wood or body work on this Epi but i think i will.

The stock pegs slid out of their holes effortlessly. Like. Im talking 0 resistance. Which leads me to beleive my the tone on this guitar has been compromised for sometime now. Probably since the day i owned it. Might the this be a blessing in disguise? Regardless i guess i am going to have to do somethong to make this a bit better.

Do i plug the holes woth some dowell and redrill new holes to make use of the nashville bridge? Or sell the nashville and get a better quality replacement that will fit the existing holes and do a bit of filler work to regain a better fit for the new pegs?

What would yall do?

For now though i may string it back up with the old bridge so i dont leave it sit too long with out strings on it. Lord knows when ill have a free night again to mess with this. Ill follow up with pics later.
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rayc
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by rayc »

INteresting problem for which I have no solutions, little understanding and fewer skills. Sorry but you know those that can will.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by Greg_L »

Post some pics.

A quick Google shows me that a B2 bridge is like Epi's version of an ABR. Sort of like a hybrid ABR/Nashville. ABR looks, but it uses bushings like a Nashville. It looks like the B2's bushings are wrong for a Nashville. An ABR usually has posts that thread directly into the wood - no bushings. As you have found out, the B2's bushings are too big for a Nashville.

So I would suggest you check Gotoh and see if they have a Nashville bridge that will just drop on top of your B2's bushings/posts.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

This is all i got for pictures, i don't think taking pictures of the holes was going to be all that relvant.





also out of pure interest i opened the control cavity up to check out it's guts as both tone pots need to be replaced because they are very scratchy when touched let alone turned or fiddled with. Bit better of a job than the sparrow.

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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by Greg_L »

Ok will the insert from the tuneomatic thread into the original bushing?
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:38 pm Ok will the insert from the tuneomatic thread into the original bushing?
Nope i tried that. After looking around the internet over my morning coffee i think my option are

- find a peg to sort of retro fit into the existing bushing to use the nashville bridge i ahve already purchased
- source out a ABR/B2 replacement appropriate for the exsiting hardware
- dowel it up and drill some holes.

I had originally bought the Nashville to correct some intonation issues (which are seemingly no longer present ?) and to attempt to make my epiphone a little more unique. maybe it's not worth it. Maybe i should just source out B2/ABR alternative to put on the existing hardware. that sort of sounds like a less destructive option and makes far more sense. Maybe stick the nashville on reverb or something?

Any suggestion on why those bushings come in and out so easy? do you think it is affecting any of my tone? Would a tighter more snug fit generate more resonance / sustain?
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by Greg_L »

1) I would strongly advise against dowel/drilling. The Nashville is not so much better that that would be a good option. And if you get the bridge placement wrong....fucked.

2) The bushing should not come out that easily. Maybe you can get Mutt's attention and he can tell you how to anchor them in better. I seriously doubt it has any significant difference in you tone unless they're so loose they rattle around. Lol.

3) Sell your Nashville (or just keep it for later) and look for a Nashville top that will fit over your existing B2 studs. There has to be something out there. Gotoh, Guitar Fetish, someone somewhere has a drop-on replacement.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by Greg_L »

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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by Lt. Bob »

I'm with Greg ..... find one that will fit the posts you have.
measure the diameter and thickness of those posts EXACTLY and the spacing EXACTLY ..... I feel sure you can find one.
Gotog has a contact email addy ..... you could ask them.

As for the bushings slipping out ...... I doubt very much it makes any tonal difference ..... the bridge is under some downward force when strung .... hell, jazz guitars have floating bridges that will fall off if there strings are removed.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Lt. Bob wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:42 pm As for the bushings slipping out ...... I doubt very much it makes any tonal difference ..... the bridge is under some downward force when strung .... hell, jazz guitars have floating bridges that will fall off if there strings are removed.

Man, i never even thought of that. Thanks for the reality check Lt. i gotta stop over thinking every fucking thing.

I bought some sweet digital calipers last weekend so i am going to take said mesaurements tonight whilst i drink a beer and shop around.

Thanks guys!!! :like: :like: :happytrees:
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

After spending some time with this guitar yesterday after leaving it in the case with a humidifier and doing a reasonable set up on it, i have concluded that i am not going to utilize the Nashville tune o matic bridge on this as i intended to do so a few years ago when i bought it. if i replace the existing one it will be purely a visual upgrade. Sorry to bother you guys with my shit.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by Lt. Bob »

nah man ..... we've all learned something because of this thread.

it's great IMO
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by miroslav »

If you want to snug up the bushings...just wrap a piece of paper strip around them.
Find the number of wraps needed to make it snug, but still not too hard to push back down.

One thing though...watch for the ground wire...it has to have direct contact with the bushing metal at one spot at least.
You can wrap the paper over it and the bushing if there's enough length to it, and then just pull back the excess from the cavity on the back.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

miroslav wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:07 pm If you want to snug up the bushings...just wrap a piece of paper strip around them.
Find the number of wraps needed to make it snug, but still not too hard to push back down.

One thing though...watch for the ground wire...it has to have direct contact with the bushing metal at one spot at least.
You can wrap the paper over it and the bushing if there's enough length to it, and then just pull back the excess from the cavity on the back.
Ohhhh. You know what. I didn't even look for the ground wire. I wonder if is maybe on the tail stop pegs? next time i string change i'll take a look. Good advice Miro.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:12 pm

Ohhhh. You know what. I didn't even look for the ground wire. I wonder if is maybe on the tail stop pegs? next time i string change i'll take a look. Good advice Miro.
That's probably where it is.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by rayc »

Use plumbers tape - the sort used to wrap around a thread before screwing a new tap/faucet in place.. Softer, easier to work with, relatively inert.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

rayc wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:32 pm Use plumbers tape - the sort used to wrap around a thread before screwing a new tap/faucet in place.. Softer, easier to work with, relatively inert.
The teflon tape. yes. I have 100's of meters of the stuff. I hate that i do, but i do. good suggestion Ray.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by muttley »

Lt. Bob wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:42 pm I'm with Greg ..... find one that will fit the posts you have.
measure the diameter and thickness of those posts EXACTLY and the spacing EXACTLY ..... I feel sure you can find one.
Gotog has a contact email addy ..... you could ask them.

As for the bushings slipping out ...... I doubt very much it makes any tonal difference ..... the bridge is under some downward force when strung .... hell, jazz guitars have floating bridges that will fall off if there strings are removed.
Just picked up on this thread.

An archtop floating bridge may not be fixed but it is ESSENTIAL that the feet make perfect contact with the top to get the best tone from it. I spend a good deal of time fitting the feet of the bridge to be an exact fit. It takes hours to do properly. Acoustically it makes a big differance. On a solid body less so but a sloppy fit anywhere near the string will suck tone (higher partials) from the string. You should know this as a piano tuner..;)

On the wider issue of studs. You can get studs that are sized Tunomatic to take a Nashville. Not sure if you can get B2 stud the same. I'll have to google up to find out what is available over the pond.. I would give StewMac a call cos they will have them and they are not too pricey. Failing that Gergs advice would be right. Find a bridge that drops on the posts you have or some other work would be required.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by Lt. Bob »

muttley wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:07 pm
An archtop floating bridge may not be fixed but it is ESSENTIAL that the feet make perfect contact with the top to get the best tone from it. I spend a good deal of time fitting the feet of the bridge to be an exact fit. It takes hours to do properly. Acoustically it makes a big differance. On a solid body less so but a sloppy fit anywhere near the string will suck tone (higher partials) from the string. You should know this as a piano tuner..;)
of course but that was just an example to set his mind to rest ..... and it does not change what I said in the slightest.
Regardless of how precisely you fit that bridge, it WILL fall off if you remove the strings .... even if it's fit perfectly to a molecular level.

By the same token the fact that those studs slide out easily doesn't mean they're not fitted well enough to transfer vibrations efficiently once there is downforce from stringing it up.
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Re: Tuneomatic swap out.

Post by muttley »

Lt. Bob wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:44 pm
muttley wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:07 pm
An archtop floating bridge may not be fixed but it is ESSENTIAL that the feet make perfect contact with the top to get the best tone from it. I spend a good deal of time fitting the feet of the bridge to be an exact fit. It takes hours to do properly. Acoustically it makes a big differance. On a solid body less so but a sloppy fit anywhere near the string will suck tone (higher partials) from the string. You should know this as a piano tuner..;)
of course but that was just an example to set his mind to rest ..... and it does not change what I said in the slightest.
Regardless of how precisely you fit that bridge, it WILL fall off if you remove the strings .... even if it's fit perfectly to a molecular level.

By the same token the fact that those studs slide out easily doesn't mean they're not fitted well enough to transfer vibrations efficiently once there is downforce from stringing it up.
Kind of, it does. Yes an archtop bridge will fall off but that isnt the point....

With an archtop bridge you have full coupling from the downward pressure of the bridge to the body and consequently maximum efficiency when transferring energy to and from the string. No part of the bridge that is supposed to be in contact with the body is not in contact. Now that is an acoustic example I grant you. With poor fitting studs on a sold body you have maximum coupling only on the flange that sits on the top of the body. In an ideal world you would have contact on the insert part as well. You dont have maximum coupling. It's detail and whether there is a perceptible affect is moot. Who's to say that a loosely fitting stud would not improve the tone? That would be guesswork though and It is certain that is not as it was designed to work and as far as transfer of string energy it is far from ideal. In terms of volume and decay (amplitude and decay) A poorly fitted stud would affect both.

It will suck "tone" from the string. especially the higher partials. I'm not saying that it would make it sound bad but it is not as it should be.
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