LP Jnr build : Preamble.

[muttley]

Ive been threatening to do a LP jnr style build thread here for a while for a number of reasons. One of the first things to establish is what would you guys like to see built?

My motivation...

Build threads are fun.
I dont have time to record and post these days
Some folks here keep talking about wanting to build a guitar so I would like to show how simple it can be.
It may give a bit of increased exposure to the board.

I was kicking the idea around with WJ today via PM and he is up for it and hopefully we can get it done in a pretty compact and easy to access way and add some value to the place. We are likely going to serialise it over a number of weekly posts with a separate thread for questions and discussion so that the meat and potatoes stays in one place and we can all discuss it in another linked thread but we haven't fully worked out all that yet. It could just be a build thread all in but those tend to get a little cluttered.

This thread will be about talking through what you guys would like to see built, style, colour, pickup, materials, etc.etc.. I'm hoping gerg will take the lead on this as he is the go to Jnr guy here and knows what a jnr should have and would have a pretty good idea of what may be good to change to make it unique without losing the essential Jnr ethos.. Plus it would be good to have some input other than my own. I'll just build the fucker. You decide.

So gerg if you could have a custom build a jnr signature model what would it be? Others what might you want to see?

Have at it. I will start the build as soon as we have a plan.

Some key things I'd like to keep in the brief.

Simple tools only or minimum use of specialised tools. I will show them but will also show alternatives.
Easy to find parts and timbers.
Other than that,l whatever.......

Have at it....

[WhiskeyJack]

Let the games begin.

if i had anything to offer up in the way of an idea i'd really like to see what we could do with a headstock? Maybe try and come up with something that isn't reinventing the wheel but also ins't a blatant knock off the Gibson headstock.

unlesss of course people want to see how to 100% replicate a a true to life Jr, then by all means do a knock off. from where i sit though there are enough creative minds something could be drummed up.

Or if Mutt has a signature headstock pattern i'd say use that if it fit the science of a Jr.

[rayc]

I look forward to this. It's not something I would attempt - my skill set is far too limited but I think they are fun as well as educational threads.

[Greg_L]

Good thread. I look forward to seeing this come to life.

For me, if I could have a Greg signature LP Jr...

First off, it'd have to be double cutaway. I love double cutaway Jrs/Specials.
Mahogany body/neck...like normal.
Tune-o-matic and stopbar instead of the compensated wraparound bridge. Nashville or ABR, but I probably prefer a Nashville bridge.
Bone nut
Regular ol Kluson bean tuners
Ebony fretboard - neck binding
Regular dot inlays
22 standard medium-jumbo typical Les Paul size frets
24-3/4 scale length - 12" radius
I'm not too picky about neck profile. No skinny fence picket shredder neck though. Something symmetrical and semi-chunky.
Standard 3+3 Gibson-style headstock and break angle

The pickup...this is where I get weird.
My love for P-90s is neverending. But if I'm designing the ultimate Greg guitar, I need a humbucker too. But we only get one pickup in a Jr, so it'll have to be a ripoff design of the Seymour Duncan P-Rails. Half P-90, and an adjacent single coil to make it humbucker when appropriate. But a P-Rails is kind of muddy in humbucker mode, so something would have to be done about that. And a P-90's mounting method is dumb, the dogear method is even dumber, so standard pickup ring style adjustable mounting is preferred. 500k Audio taper volume and tone pots. One of them will need to be a push/pull for the pickup switching.

The finish..
I'm not a fan of wood grain. I don't give one single solitary fuck about flames or bookmatching or quilting or birdseye anything. Paint the motherfucker. White, TV Yellow, Black...or super badass 70s speedboat huge metal flake. I love metalflake paint. I don't care what color. The sparklier the better.

10-46 strings

Ok mutt, get to work!

[JD01]

Great idea, Mutt. Like Greg I reckon you should do a doublecut as they look great. Modern C profile on the neck.

Don't think the neck should be bound. Have it as minimal as possible.

Definitely needs to be 3+3 on the tuners, but I wouldn't go for a standard Gibson headstock. Something like my old Washburn hawk where the sides of the headstock slope in so the tuning posts end up more in line with the nut slots.

I'd go for a 2 pickup "special" layout.. seeing as we like arguing about versatility at the moment.

I'd stick with a tune-o-matic but I'd go for through body stringing.

Basically, if I were to get another guitar built this is what I'd go for.

Also. TV yellow with a black pickguard. Super smooth unlacquered neck.

[muttley]

Interesting so far.

As stated this is going to be done so that it remains simple and easy to do for those that are hovering on the edge of committing to give it a go one day. So I'm keen to keep the thing as stock as possible.

I am probably going to have to move this on once it's done so unless some one is going to step up and buy the thing I would also need to keep headstock roughly inline with what I normally do on LP style builds.

To break it down so far.

Mahogany body and neck. No problem.

I will probably do a stack and scarf construction because that is the best use of timber and is a more solid construction than a one piece. Profile will be standard C section not too chunky, not too slinky. Dot mop inlay, no binding, ebony f/b. 3 aside tuners. Bone nut (always). 3/4 gibby style frets.

Double cut body with stop bar. Matters not on the Nashville or ABR bridge. To do string through is harder as you need quite a big pillar drill to run those accurately. I have one but many others would not. I can do it though if you guys want it that way.

I can finish it any way you like. Metal flake is not easy to do with simple tools so if I do that I would have to break out the spray booth which moves away from the brief. Simplest is plain Mahogany, then a solid colour finally black or tv yellow are tricky. The TV yellow because even Gibson cant get that right these days.. Its a bit of a thing for them.

The key thing at present would be the pup as we have a few suggestions. We need to chew that over. I would like to keep the footprint standard dogear or P90 pocket as it would be easier down the road if I need to swap out.

I will leave this up for a while yet in case others want a say.. and so we can talk over what pup and the finer detail..

[JD01]

Pickups. I think dogear P90s would be best. Keep it simple.

I do think it's worth trying to angle the tuners so the strings go straight through the nut... it seems strange to me to copy a guitar maker, but also copy their mistakes!

[rayc]

Can you put in one of those gizmos that makes the strings from nut to 3 a side a little straighter?
I can't find a picture or vid but I saw a Utub recently that had one - it sat between the nut and the machine heads rather like a cello mute - held in place by the strings and tension.

[muttley]

Pickups. I think dogear P90s would be best. Keep it simple.

I do think it's worth trying to angle the tuners so the strings go straight through the nut... it seems strange to me to copy a guitar maker, but also copy their mistakes!

It's not a mistake. The string needs to be anchored at the nut thats all. You can have a 90 degree break and it still depends entirely on how well the nut is cut as to whether you get issues. The mistake is trying to find a solution to a problem that doesnt exist. I once built a Jazz box for a guy that was absolutely adamant that the strings need to follow a straight line. It was the worst headstock I've ever done and works no better than any other.

On the pup thing. We can put ehatever we like inside the cover so gergs ideas are still possible. We just need to nail it down.

[muttley]

Can you put in one of those gizmos that makes the strings from nut to 3 a side a little straighter?
I can't find a picture or vid but I saw a Utub recently that had one - it sat between the nut and the machine heads rather like a cello mute - held in place by the strings and tension.

Again a solution to a problem that shouldnt exist. If the nut is cut correctly it will work correctly. It doesnt matter what sort of break angle you have.

[JD01]

Pickups. I think dogear P90s would be best. Keep it simple.

I do think it's worth trying to angle the tuners so the strings go straight through the nut... it seems strange to me to copy a guitar maker, but also copy their mistakes!

It's not a mistake. The string needs to be anchored at the nut thats all. You can have a 90 degree break and it still depends entirely on how well the nut is cut as to whether you get issues. The mistake is trying to find a solution to a problem that doesnt exist. I once built a Jazz box for a guy that was absolutely adamant that the strings need to follow a straight line. It was the worst headstock I've ever done and works no better than any other.

On the pup thing. We can put ehatever we like inside the cover so gergs ideas are still possible. We just need to nail it down.

Ah, I always thought the angle between the nut and the tuner caused tuning stability problems of gibsons

[Greg_L]

Again a solution to a problem that shouldnt exist. If the nut is cut correctly it will work correctly. It doesnt matter what sort of break angle you have.

This ^^^^

Shame on Gibson for cutting nuts so shitty that people think it's a design flaw in the headstock.

None of my Gibsons go out of tune. All I did was some simple minor nut massaging. On the guitar. The nut on the guitar.

[JD01]

Again a solution to a problem that shouldnt exist. If the nut is cut correctly it will work correctly. It doesnt matter what sort of break angle you have.

This ^^^^

Shame on Gibson for cutting nuts so shitty that people think it's a design flaw in the headstock.

None of my Gibsons go out of tune. All I did was some simple minor nut massaging. On the guitar. The nut on the guitar.

Don't neglect your nuts, mate. You should massage them regularly.

I still think the washburn hawk is a nice headstock though.

[muttley]

It's not a mistake. The string needs to be anchored at the nut thats all. You can have a 90 degree break and it still depends entirely on how well the nut is cut as to whether you get issues. The mistake is trying to find a solution to a problem that doesnt exist. I once built a Jazz box for a guy that was absolutely adamant that the strings need to follow a straight line. It was the worst headstock I've ever done and works no better than any other.

On the pup thing. We can put ehatever we like inside the cover so gergs ideas are still possible. We just need to nail it down.

Ah, I always thought the angle between the nut and the tuner caused tuning stability problems of gibsons

Nope. Shitty necks on some SG's are the biggest problem. TBH the biggest problem is Gibsons quality control. I used to do a lot of shop setups on Gibsons but now I wont even bother. Too much agro..

[muttley]

This ^^^^

Shame on Gibson for cutting nuts so shitty that people think it's a design flaw in the headstock.

None of my Gibsons go out of tune. All I did was some simple minor nut massaging. On the guitar. The nut on the guitar.

Don't neglect your nuts, mate. You should massage them regularly.

I still think the washburn hawk is a nice headstock though.

It's a pretty standard 3=3 design design. Most are. My standard is a lot simpler.

lp headstock front.jpg

[JD01]

Yeah. It's pretty standard and clean. It's not too pointy either, which is the main think I don't like about my PRS. Maybe I'm just used to it cos I spent 15 years with the fucking thing!

Edit, yours is pretty tidy actually mutt. Bit pointy/PRSish, not too bad. You've got the tuners stepping in too. Does that make it easier to cut the nut properly?

[muttley]

Nope. The nut slots jist need to be clean, the right depth and anchor the string where it needs to be. Cutting a nut is about more than the slots. It's about getting them clean and allowing the string to move freely along it. The nut is just a fret essentially.

[liv_rong]

This thread will be good.

Bummer that you wont do binding but it is a ton more work and not really basic.

[rayc]

Again a solution to a problem that shouldnt exist. If the nut is cut correctly it will work correctly. It doesnt matter what sort of break angle you have.

Thanks Mutt,
I was dubious and the contraption looked unattractive anyway, but I was offering a compromise for JDOD's idea.

[muttley]

OK, this has been up for a week now and I'm guessing most of those that want to have a say have had one. S here is what I intend to do.

The guitar will be built using mostly easily available tools. I will break it down into easy to follow sections and post them up for comment as I go.

Lp Jnr style.
Double cut -
Mahogany body - two piece for cost
Mahogany neck - scarf construction for cost - 24-3/4 scale length - 12" radius
Ebony f/b - with mop dots, unbound, medium/fat frets
Mutt90 Pup. - Can be either dogear or soap bar.
Bridge with stop bar not wraparound. TBC

Notes : Going along with gergs comments on the pup, I kind of agree that the jnr's standard pup arrangement is less than perfect. Here's what I intend to do. Route for a humbucker style pup. That way I can drop pretty much anything in there. Standard pup ring mounting.

On gergs suggestion for a hybrid pup. That would be pretty cool but would make this project a little more involved than a novices guitar build which this is intended to be. I will design a pup along the lines of gergs description and do that as a separate project and maybe ship to gerg to play about with.. I am assuming it would be p90 footprint?.... How does all that sound?