LP Jnr build : Preamble.

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:20 am OK, this has been up for a week now and I'm guessing most of those that want to have a say have had one. S here is what I intend to do.

The guitar will be built using mostly easily available tools. I will break it down into easy to follow sections and post them up for comment as I go.

Lp Jnr style.
Double cut -
Mahogany body - two piece for cost
Mahogany neck - scarf construction for cost - 24-3/4 scale length - 12" radius
Ebony f/b - with mop dots, unbound, medium/fat frets
Mutt90 Pup. - Can be either dogear or soap bar.
Bridge with stop bar not wraparound. TBC

Notes : Going along with gergs comments on the pup, I kind of agree that the jnr's standard pup arrangement is less than perfect. Here's what I intend to do. Route for a humbucker style pup. That way I can drop pretty much anything in there. Standard pup ring mounting.

On gergs suggestion for a hybrid pup. That would be pretty cool but would make this project a little more involved than a novices guitar build which this is intended to be. I will design a pup along the lines of gergs description and do that as a separate project and maybe ship to gerg to play about with.. I am assuming it would be p90 footprint?.... How does all that sound?
Wow sounds awesome!

On the hybrid pickup, if you play around with designing one to fit a Jr or replacing a P90, then yeah it would have to be P90 sized. The SD P-Rails is humbucker sized, but to me they just don't act very well as a humbucker. I think that is your challenge. Their P90 mode is pretty good, the single rails mode is pretty good, but together as a humbucker - mush city.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by muttley »

So just to clarify.. if it was for you, would you belooking to design it round the Humbucker footprint or the p90?

Once we get that down I will have a think around it. I have a few ideas already..
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:24 am So just to clarify.. if it was for you, would you belooking to design it round the Humbucker footprint or the p90?

Once we get that down I will have a think around it. I have a few ideas already..
If it were for me, I'd want it P90-sized. And more specifically, soapbar style. No dogears.

I already have a humbucker sized SD P-Rails. I had it in my Mosrite clone. I liked it, but it's humbucker sound was less than great. I mainly just kept it in P90 mode all the time.

I'd want it P90 sized because the only guitars I'd want to put a P90/hybrid in are P90 equipped anyway. A direct replacement P90/humbucker in one would be a cool option for P90 guitars.

My own humbucking guitars aren't routed for a P90, and I don't want to replace those pickups anyway. I like them just as they are.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by muttley »

Thats fine. I just wanted to clarify. I was pretty sure you'd want it p90 footprint. I'll see what I can come up with design wise and post it up in the muttpup board.

It matters not if its soap bar or dog ear as the bobbin and guts are the same so the two should be interchangable.. Humbucker would be a differant design approach.

First thing first I'm gonna do a bit of listening to the P rail humbucker mode.
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:19 am Thats fine. I just wanted to clarify. I was pretty sure you'd want it p90 footprint. I'll see what I can come up with design wise and post it up in the muttpup board.

It matters not if its soap bar or dog ear as the bobbin and guts are the same so the two should be interchangable.. Humbucker would be a differant design approach.

First thing first I'm gonna do a bit of listening to the P rail humbucker mode.
I don't know what makes a P90 a P90. I just know they sound awesome. But I think the P-Rails fails because the P90 side of it is so big, and the rail side of it is so small. It is standard humbucker size and mounts in a ring like any other humbucker. As a P90 it sounds fine, switch it so single coil rail mode and it sounds fine, although with much less output. Combine the two and it gets muddy. Perhaps the increased output of the P-90 coil and reduced output of the single coil combine to be a weird mismatch? I don't know. I don't have it handy right now to measure, but maybe the two coils are too far apart? The P-Rails is an adequate option for versatility, but it doesn't do anything exceptionally well.

If you can figure out a way to combine a P90 and a single coil into a sharp sounding humbucker that fits in a P90 body, you'd be a hero. :not worthy:
Rebel Yell
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

And FWIW, I'm pretty sure Lt Boob uses P-Rails too in his Stinnet guitar, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same way I do about the P-Rails. I think he keeps his in P-90 mode all the time too. But I'm just going off memory. You'd have to ask him for his take on his P-Rails.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by muttley »

I've started on the build proper and will be posting the first installment on Monday. There on I will probably do regular updates as things progress.

The plan I will be working the outline and geometry from will be this one.
Double Cut LP Jr.pdf
Credit for the plan goes to the author obviously and the guys at the Les Paul forum. Its a good plan and you can print in full scale on a domestic printer and cut and join any sections you may need. I will just be using it for the body outline and neck geometry.

Moving forwards. There was some talk of coming up with a headstock design. If any of you want to suggest some thing then fire away. I'm going to on that some time next week so time is getting short.

I still havent decided what pickup route to give this. I'm leaning towards soapbar or humbucker at present. Whatever it's gonna follow the spec that we talked about earlier pretty closely.

Watch this space.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

Holy crap those are some impressive blueprints.

I have a lot of trouble imagining a headstock shape that would look good that's not very similar to the original Gibson style. Maybe just do something similar, but leave off the open book top part. Maybe something like a Gretsch White Falcon headstock.

Image
Rebel Yell
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by muttley »

Thats one of my favorite ever headstocks. I love those deco tuners too.. That comes from my Archtop background I guess..

I'm not sure how that would look on a jnr based build? I can mock one up I suppose.

Headstocks are the hardest part to get right and the easiest part to get wrong. Mainly because it has mostly been done and also because it's where people try to "brand" their stuff....
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:09 pm Thats one of my favorite ever headstocks. I love those deco tuners too.. That comes from my Archtop background I guess..

I'm not sure how that would look on a jnr based build? I can mock one up I suppose.

Headstocks are the hardest part to get right and the easiest part to get wrong. Mainly because it has mostly been done and also because it's where people try to "brand" their stuff....
I think it would look great on a Jr. Just scale it down a bit. Leave off the gold flake binding and stuff, obviously. But that basic shape would be great I think.

A Jr is a classic simple shape, so a classic simple headstock would be best IMO.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
JD01
Posts: 15816
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:11 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by JD01 »

My "official" vote for headstock shape:
Image
Simple, tidy, functional and I think it would look great on a jr.
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

That's good too. Nice and simple. No points, no asymmetry, Simple and classic.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by muttley »

Ok the consensus seems to be for a symmetrical design with no sharp corners. Leave it with me...

@JD, The Wasburn to me is too long and thin. Personally I prefer a curve to the two long edges. At least a more pronounced curve than that has.
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:18 pm Ok the consensus seems to be for a symmetrical design with no sharp corners. Leave it with me...

@JD, The Wasburn to me is too long and thin. Personally I prefer a curve to the two long edges. At least a more pronounced curve than that has.
Maybe dream up a combination of the Gretsch and Washburn styles. Have the sexy curves of the Gretsch, but kind of tame it all down just a little bit so it's a little more streamlined like the Washburn.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by muttley »

Greg_L wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:14 pm
muttley wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:09 pm Thats one of my favorite ever headstocks. I love those deco tuners too.. That comes from my Archtop background I guess..

I'm not sure how that would look on a jnr based build? I can mock one up I suppose.

Headstocks are the hardest part to get right and the easiest part to get wrong. Mainly because it has mostly been done and also because it's where people try to "brand" their stuff....
I think it would look great on a Jr. Just scale it down a bit. Leave off the gold flake binding and stuff, obviously. But that basic shape would be great I think.

A Jr is a classic simple shape, so a classic simple headstock would be best IMO.
I had it in mind to use that as a guide and pull the top width in just a little and lessen the "V" a little.

One of my signatures on most guitars I build is to use a striking veneer or marquetry design (doesnt have to be flashy, often little is more) on the headstock rather than a logo or Inlay. Ya'll may wish to consider that.
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:22 pm I had it in mind to use that as a guide and pull the top width in just a little and lessen the "V" a little.

One of my signatures on most guitars I build is to use a striking veneer or marquetry design (doesnt have to be flashy, often little is more) on the headstock rather than a logo or Inlay. Ya'll may wish to consider that.
I know, I've seen it. It's no problem to me.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
JD01
Posts: 15816
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:11 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by JD01 »

Its a bit weird - It didn't feel too long and pointy when I had the guitar but it looks a bit long and pointy in those pics. In reality though, you'd just make it at the right sort of length to suit the guitar. A slight curve on the long edges would look good actually... a bit like a PRS headstock but without unequal length points at the end and rounded ends instead of points.

The thing I like about headstocks like the Washburn and PRS is that that the tuners gradually move in so they're in line with the nut slots. I know you say that if you craft the nut properly it doesn't matter, but it can't hurt, can it?
User avatar
JD01
Posts: 15816
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:11 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by JD01 »

This one is nice - a bit like a PRS but with equal length "horns" I'd prefer it if it taped to the top slightly and was a bit less pointy, like a Frankenstein of the PRS and Washburn Wing headstocks.
Image
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by Greg_L »

Let's leave PRS out of this build.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: LP Jnr build : Preamble.

Post by muttley »

A quick pick of the neck waiting for the headstock outline..

I need to decide now as onc its cut theres no going back.... Well there is but I aint gonna... So whats it gonna be????

headstock blank.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Post Reply