Cab more important than amp?

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
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vomitHatSteve
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Why do these tone demos always start with some boring blues riff?

I'm guilty of being that guy who has no idea what his speakers are. I'm also much less interested in exactly what any of my gear says on it (other than "Crate") than if I like what it sounds like.
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Greg_L
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by Greg_L »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:07 am Why do these tone demos always start with some boring blues riff?
Lol. Right? It's like any youtube demo is some blues crap, or wank metal shred.
I'm guilty of being that guy who has no idea what his speakers are. I'm also much less interested in exactly what any of my gear says on it (other than "Crate") than if I like what it sounds like.
And that's cool. If you like the sounds you're getting, then there's no need to go further. I just think it's silly when guitarists obsess over tiny details while not being aware of a huge detail like speakers.
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Minerman
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by Minerman »

JD01 wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:57 pm
Greg_L wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:39 pm

There is something magical that happens when you get a big amp pushing air around. You need to buy one them castles yall got all over the place and get loud.
Would love to... but they cost even more than the fucking amps!
Try a Greenback Jdude...I know you're a V30 guy, but I personally don't care much for 'em myself...Yeah, they've been used on countless recordings, & countless famous players use 'em, but it's my least-liked speaker I have here...I'm not saying a Greenback cab will allow you to get loud like we all love, but it'll let you get into "that zone" a little quicker because they break up faster...There are all kinds of variants of the Greenback too, a G12-65 re-issue is similar to a Greenback to me, there are the WGS versions, & so on...

There isn't a lot of difference between the China made Greenback, & the EVH branded quad I have...A different label/sticker & a little higher price is about all...While they don't sound identical, they're very similar...

Bob's right too dude, the speaker makes a huge difference in tone, I found this out first hand with the gargantuan ISO cab, then the Bastard 4x12...I still have 4 different speakers in that cab for a reason...

I bet if you could swing a good, solid 2x12 with a Greenback variant in it, you might not wanna spend that big amount on the Mesa you're drooling over...
Your Blackstar has EL34 power tubes doesn't it??? We all know it's a dark sounding amp, but you already have your eq pedal to brighten it up dude...
Dunno if you run your eq pedal in the fx loop, but that's where I'd try it, then get a good 2x12 cab to run it through & you might change your mind about dropping all that $$$ on the Mesa for a while...
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JD01
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by JD01 »

Yeah. I run the eq pedal in the loop. It's much improved,

If/when I get a 2x12 I might stick two different speakers in it for a little bit of variation.
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by JD01 »

Lt. Bob wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:08 pm
JD01 wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:50 pm
Well, its generally thought that its probably the case,
By who?

Cabs matter ..... even whether speakers are front or rear mounted makes a difference.
having multiple speakers also affects the freq response versus a single speaker and they work like a line array to some extent allowing things in the back to sound more like up closer.

But amps absolutely make a huge difference and I'd argue moreso than the cab.

And I've never heard a single person ever say the can mattered more than the amp .... if anything players sometimes give less thought to the speaker than they should.

To me the amp makes a bigger difference than the cab although that's not to say that speakers don't make a big difference.
I've just seen a few demos lately where the same amp was played through a bunch of different 4x12s. Sounded really different. Then different amps played through the same 4x12 and the difference wasn't that great. Could be just a one off though.
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by Minerman »

JD01 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:23 pmIf/when I get a 2x12 I might stick two different speakers in it for a little bit of variation.
I wasn't suggesting having different speakers like I've got dude, but that would work too...I was only suggesting a 2x12 with Greenback-ish speakers in it...
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:27 pm

Try a Greenback Jdude...I know you're a V30 guy, but I personally don't care much for 'em myself...Yeah, they've been used on countless recordings, & countless famous players use 'em, but it's my least-liked speaker I have here...
I didn't like my V30s at first either, but once they broke in....wow. They sound great. They do have to be pushed though. They sound pretty stiff if they're not cranking.

I mic my Greenbacks more than anything. But the V30s are a close 2nd.
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:50 pm
I didn't like my V30s at first either, but once they broke in....wow. They sound great. They do have to be pushed though. They sound pretty stiff if they're not cranking.

I mic my Greenbacks more than anything. But the V30s are a close 2nd.
Yeah dude, they don't suck for sure, but I prefer my Greenback(s) over anything else I've got...

Part of the reason I suggested Greenies to Jdude is because they don't have to be pushed as hard as a V30...That has it's own character it adds to the overall tone too...
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:54 pm
Yeah dude, they don't suck for sure, but I prefer my Greenback(s) over anything else I've got...

Part of the reason I suggested Greenies to Jdude is because they don't have to be pushed as hard as a V30...That has it's own character it adds to the overall tone too...
You know I LOVE me some Greenbacks. The only thing IMO that might be bad about a Greenback for JD is the Greenback's propensity to get really thick and spongy in the mids. He already has an overwhelming low-mid muck problem. The Greenback might just make it worse. Maybe. I'm just thinking out loud.
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by miroslav »

The ultimate cab for the Rock musician.

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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by JD01 »

I don't really have the time, money or inclination to try out loads of different speakers. I just listened to a bunch of reviews and went for what I thought sounded best. There were even reviews of people swapping V30s into 20W Blackstar amps to improve them 'cos the Rocket 50 that they came with was pretty shit.
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by miroslav »

I've never been able to warm up to the Celestion V30 ...and I've tried it in a lot of different cabs with different amps.
I think I ended up with a V30 in one combo for awhile...but I've sold that since, with the V30. :)

I may have a V30 in the closet...and I still try it out if/when I get a new amp/cab...but TBH, I've got at least a half dozen other speaker flavors that always win out...so I don't see myself every using the V30...unless maybe it ends up in a 212 or 412 with something else where the combination is just right.
Come to think of it...I've actually moved away from almost all of my Celestion speakers...'cuz that's what most of the ones in the closet are....
...and I have a lot of WGS speakers that replaced them.
That said...I have a couple of Celestion Gold speakers...the good stuff from Made in England days (not sure if the Golds are still only made in England)...and those I'm holding on to for now, they are great speakers, just not fitting in with my current amp/cab lineup.

AFA the Chinese VS English made Celestions in the other models...I compared them head to head, and there was more smoothness to the English versions....though that just might be because they were older and more broken in, while the Chinese stuff was brand new.
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by vomitHatSteve »

JD01 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:37 pm I've just seen a few demos lately where the same amp was played through a bunch of different 4x12s. Sounded really different. Then different amps played through the same 4x12 and the difference wasn't that great. Could be just a one off though.
I'd assume they probably tried to dial all the amps into a similar place before they even started. It'd be an interesting set of comparisons to see tho.
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by JD01 »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 pm
JD01 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:37 pm I've just seen a few demos lately where the same amp was played through a bunch of different 4x12s. Sounded really different. Then different amps played through the same 4x12 and the difference wasn't that great. Could be just a one off though.
I'd assume they probably tried to dial all the amps into a similar place before they even started. It'd be an interesting set of comparisons to see tho.
I'll see if I can find it for you. I've noticed how much of a huge difference cab can make when dialing in impulses too.
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Re: Cab more important than amp?

Post by vomitHatSteve »

That'd be cool. Thank you.
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