How are you getting your tones

[JD01]

Basically wondering what your various setups are for how you capture your best tones. It was chatting to Bubba earlier about how I'm generally pretty happy with what I'm getting now but it occurred to me that getting my tone is a little bit of a faff. Would you say its a decent rule of thumb that the worse the amp/cab/speaker combination you start with the more faffing you're gonna have to do to get something good.

My Blackstar HT Studio 20 Combo has the shitty "Rocket 50" speaker in it. First thing I did was upgrade that to a V30.
Then dial in the best tone I can get on the amp - however, the tonestack on a Blackstar is a bit odd and seems to have a really big low mid hump, which you can't really dial out with sensible settings on the knobs.
Next I have a graphic EQ in the loop with a notch at 400hz, to take out that boxy low mid hump, but also add a bit of brightness at the top end 3.2/6.4khz.
I also use a Boss SD-1 as a clean boost, this tightens up the bottom end and stops things getting flubby.
Like most people I use an SM57 on the edge of the dust cap, but I also use a condenser mid-way across the speaker.
Its hard to get the gain low enough on the AI to use a condenser, but my usual recording volume is "small pub-gig" volume, and its just manageable without clipping.

The purpose for the condenser isn't for fully blending it with the 57. I initially turn it down completely, then gradually bring the volume up to where its not changing the tone too much, but just makes the whole sound feel "bigger" likes its a bigger amp. I initially used a AKG C1000S for this but have recently changed to a Focusrite CM25 which I also use for vocals as it seems to have a slightly higher mid, whereas the AKG introduced some of that "boxiness" back in.

This is as far as I've got, next step is a less muddy humbucker, followed by a decent separate cab and then maybe one day, a nicer amp.

How simple have you managed to get your setup? Would you say its true that if you just start with a better amp, you have to mess about less with pedals, EQ tweaks and mic blends to get a good tone.

[Greg_L]

Would you say its true that if you just start with a better amp, you have to mess about less with pedals, EQ tweaks and mic blends to get a good tone.

Yes. Definitely.

[Bubba]

I find it's pretty simple to get a tone I like. I suspect it's something to do with the fact that I don't use much gain. The more gain, the more low end and the more mud you have to cope with. For the British and american indie tones that are my commonest go-to sounds, I have to do little more than turn on the Marshall, set it to orange crunch about 70% gain and the rest of the knobs at 12 o'clock. I mic the cone halfway between the middle and edge with a '57 and that's it. For different sounds i'll change guitars, but my basic setup is the same.

[Tadpui]

I'm usually pretty simple about recording guitars. A good guitar and a good amp, with a pedal or two in-between. SM57 up close on the speaker, and hit record. ...then proceed to do 47 takes because I don't practice enough.

That said, I still struggle with an overall darkness to my electric guitar recording (and really, my mixes in general). My preferences for how it sounds in the room tend towards less high frequency shrillness and zero fizziness. So I keep making the same mistakes over and over again, dialing out too much hi frequency info in a quest to obliterate fizziness. I have yet to win this battle.

[WhiskeyJack]

I would agree that that trusting your ears to guide you is a good step and that could definitely mean a different amp, guitar, volume whatever yea. If you find yourself struggling after months of minor tweaks it might be time to, tear it all down and start from the ground up again. It can help.

I Just sort of switched it up as i briefly went over in the contest thread. Pretty much going back to how i used to do it when i wasn't sure of what i was doing lol. Make my ears happy than capture it. it sounds trite and one of those "easier said than done" kind of things. but really it is that easy. If your ears don't like your amp then yea, find another amp and try it out. I think my problem was that because i had "a cool basement" set up i was going to show the world what an Orange tone sounds like.

I was wrong. Such a horrible way of thinking.

I also like simple. Simple is good. I tried to do a multiple mic set up with the 57 and some condensers so i could blend the hell out of as much as i can capture. But, i haven't found a condenser set up that brings anything to the table in the tone department. Admittedly i haven't tried it in my new temp set up, but i suspect i'll get the same results. in the end i like simple. I'd lose my mind with more knobs than what i have right now. 5 is Plenty.

I remember going on an amp tour with Greg a few months ago and some of the heads we looked at had more knobs and switches on the back of the fucking head i was just kind of like, "WHOA! why? I need a pilots license for this thing." It did sound hella good the way he dialed it all in. My inner OCD demons were killing me looking over all that though haha.

I want my tones to be simple and it's a bit easier now with the whole "back to basics" kind of mentality: hear it, like it, capture it. If you are hearing a good thing, then it's just a matter of getting the mic and preamp to capture it.

[Greg_L]

I think the key is obviously to use the right gear for the job. You'll struggle to force a Fender combo to play metal, you'll struggle to get a Triple Rectifier to sound good for jazz.

It's pretty easy for me. It took work, but I'm there. Like Bubba I can just flip one of my amps on, stick a mic, and I'll get something I like. But I've amassed stuff that makes the exact sounds I want to hear, so that makes it pretty easy. My sound is simple - big loud Marshall.

[Minerman]

I struggled with my tones for a long time Jdude, & at times I still do...Looking back I had a pretty decent setup with the low-watt heads & home-made ISO cab...I listened to some of my tones when I had the 1w DSL running into the ISO cab, & it surprised me...I personally think those were some of the best tones I've recorded...But like everything I've ever done my whole life, I was never truly satisfied & wanted to learn/improve, so I kept after it, putting a lot of time into this shit (just like you are & have been doing for a long time now dude )...I'd gain a step here/there, only to try something else/new & take 2 steps back...

I once drove about a 7 or 8 hour round-trip to trade some shitty gear for an Orange PPC112...I drove like a maniac all the way to Knoxville, TN & back, so stoked I couldn't wait to try it out...Maybe 10 minutes after I plugged into it, I was severely, terribly disappointed & pretty much pissed off at myself...It came with a V30 (that I ended up trading to Greg, my 16ohm for his 8ohm, which I still have), but sounded boxy/nasally/shitty, a terrible sounding cab, to me...I tried the DSL-1H through it first, no joy...Then I tried the Egnater Tweaker 15w head, & it sounded about the same...I couldn't believe it, I'd read about guys loving a V30 loaded cab, but I'm guessing those weren't 1x12's, not sure...It wasn't very long after that I started building my ISO cab, first just a box big enough to fit either of my 1x12's in, with as much Roxul as I could stuff into it...I eventually built an inner cab, making it a "box inside a box"...After a lot of trial error, I finally began to make some progress...

Myself, I think the biggest leap I made was when I got my $300 Marshall 4x12, even with the T-75 speakers (which really aren't as terrible as some folks say they are), it made a big, big difference...I honestly think if you could swing a 4x12, possibly even a 2x12 (I've never recorded a 2x12 btw), you'd see quite a difference in your guitar tones man...

I understand space is an issue, along with the noise thing, but I'm telling you what a good friend (who's right here in the forum with us today btw) told me a couple/few years ago: If you want a big guitar sound, you need a big amp/cab...I know that sounds corny, & yes, you can get great tones with smaller, low-watt amps/small cabs, but when you use a big amp/cab, pushing some air, a lot of the struggle (that I had anyway) is gone...

If you ever get the chance to rent a cab for a weekend or few days, do it...Take it home & get your amp pushing the speakers...It doesn't have to be so loud it would kill a small animal (although it does help), but loud enough to get the speakers pushing air into the mic...

I think your biggest problem is your cabinet...The amp itself would probably do pretty good if you had a better cab...You can always upgrade the speakers later, one at a time if you have to...I still have 4 different Celestions in my Marshall cab, & I honestly don't think I'll ever change it...It's fairly versatile, & doesn't sound shitty in the room either...I had no idea how it really sounded compared to a cab with matched speakers, but it holds it's own against the EVH cab...

Like pretty much everyone has said, simple is better...Guitar > amp > cab > speaker > daw...There's nothing wrong with a little eq after the fact either dude...

I've actually been thinking of building another ISO cab...I can use my 4x12's, but I have to pick the right time to do so...If I knew for sure I won't be moving for a while, I'd build another one...I was hoping to be outta here by this summer, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen...I have to play the "hurry up & wait" game for now, I know it'll happen eventually, but it looks like it's gonna be a little further down the road...I've learned a lot since I built the first one, & I'm positive I could build another one that'd be a lot better...

PS: Sorry for the long-ass post guys...

[rayc]

Good thread - an adjunct to THE tone one. I struggled, thought I had it sorted then found I hadn't. My gear is cheap stuff so I'm up against it. My last recording seemed to get reasonable results - that's a 5w tube amp, 4x12 cab and the mic placement was the BIG change - 57 about 12 cm away from the cab. THAT gave me the top end that was missing with up against the grill stuff. Now, that works for the moment but the close mic worked really well with Softdance a year or so ago. I don't use anything between guitar and amp at the moment - I did use a Boss overdrive for level but the result were a bit iffy so have left that for the moment.

[JD01]

Greg, I think getting the right gear for the job is a big thing actually - by that I mean working out what sound you're after and deciding what amp best serves that.

When I started doing this I didn't have a clear idea of what I was after, I just knew I wanted an amp with a clean channel, drive channel and master volume that would be suitable for both small gigs and home recording. Started working on my sound after I got the amp. I'd probably find amp shopping much easier now.

Shan - OCD - I know exactly what you mean. I can barely stand it when the knobs on my amp don't like up with a marker on the dial!

[Bubba]

Another thing I've just thought of about my sound is that I never play power chords. I always fret the whole barre chord be it major or minor. When I play, I might emphasise the bottom three strings but there's always a bit of ringout or occasional catching of the top strings so this adds texture to the chord. It's an antidote to the muddy bassiness of power chords, in my view.

[Greg_L]

Another thing I've just thought of about my sound is that I never play power chords. I always fret the whole barre chord be it major or minor. When I play, I might emphasise the bottom three strings but there's always a bit of ringout or occasional catching of the top strings so this adds texture to the chord. It's an antidote to the muddy bassiness of power chords, in my view.

Haha, damn I'm the exact same. I play a lot of open chords, full barre chords, and those Joe Strummer F-shape major chords up and down the neck. I never do the basic root-fifth power chord. Even if I'm blazing through changes I at least have a root octave and major/minor 3rd in the chords.

[Bubba]

Another thing I've just thought of about my sound is that I never play power chords. I always fret the whole barre chord be it major or minor. When I play, I might emphasise the bottom three strings but there's always a bit of ringout or occasional catching of the top strings so this adds texture to the chord. It's an antidote to the muddy bassiness of power chords, in my view.

Haha, damn I'm the exact same. I play a lot of open chords, full barre chords, and those Joe Strummer F-shape major chords up and down the neck. I never do the basic root-fifth power chord. Even if I'm blazing through changes I at least have a root octave and major/minor 3rd in the chords.

An open D or A ringing out is a thing of beauty. It's that clanging, rich tone we all love. Gs and Cs, not so much.

[Greg_L]

An open D or A ringing out is a thing of beauty. It's that clanging, rich tone we all love. Gs and Cs, not so much.

I use full Gs all the time. Sometimes muting the low B in a full G chord helps and sounds good. The open G with a muted low B is the AC/DC version and it sounds great. But I usually have the B in there. I might sometimes mute it by accident via bad fretting. A C is a bitch if the guitar is not tuned and intonated perfectly and you use too much gain. A clean C sounds great though to me.

[JD01]

I don't like the full G open chord either - I find the major third way to prominent - weirdly, I don't feel the same way about the C - I think it sounds good when played clean.

I don't like playing a fully strummed E Major open chord either - I tend to mute the G# - I think that's an Angus Young thing.
I don't mind the Major third/Minor third ringing out in barre chords though.

When I play open D I tend to play it with the top E open too, sounds great when ringing out with a bit of gain

[rayc]

I need a wide neck to play an unfluffed C these days. My fingers get in the way on anything narrowish which is a REAL pain.

[Farview]

I find it easier to deal with darker tones, then I add a bunch of high shelf in the mix. It winds up being smoother and less shrill that way.

Brighter guitar sounds make the speakers break up in a way that can sound really shrill, and you will struggle to eq the shrillness out. Starting with a darker tone and adding high shelf around 8k to brighten it up can add openness, air and brightness without the harshness.

[WhiskeyJack]

Agree with all of this. If i can play an full chord anywhere i will. I have found a single track of full actual chording does more for my songs than double tracking power chords.

I have no idea what chord it is i am playing but when i plug in, turn on and turn up, i play whatever the hell this is all six strings straight down wide open:



To me that sounds fucking amazing and just gets me stoked to sit and play more stuff. I am sure it has some weird fancy C chord spawn name but i wouldn't know what it's called. All i know is it just sound like beautiful power. even on an acoustic it sounds smashing to my ears.

[Greg_L]

Agree with all of this. If i can play an full chord anywhere i will. I have found a single track of full actual chording does more for my songs than double tracking power chords.

I have no idea what chord it is i am playing but when i plug in, turn on and turn up, i play whatever the hell this is all six strings straight down wide open:



To me that sounds fucking amazing and just gets me stoked to sit and play more stuff. I am sure it has some weird fancy C chord spawn name but i wouldn't know what it's called. All i know is it just sound like beautiful power. even on an acoustic it sounds smashing to my ears.

Ok but you play upside down, so what string is what on that diagram?

[rammer24]

No matter which way that is, it's a weird chord. I don't know how you get your second finger on the second fret if your first finger is on the third fret, no matter if that's the high E or the low E. In fact, I'd say it's impossible.

Either way, that's one of the weirdest chords I've ever seen. It seems to have either an A and a G in the same chord, which would make it some kind of A7. Or it has an E and a D which would make it some kind of E7.

Weirdest chord in the history of chording.

[JD01]

That's a C add 9. (over G, but no one cares about that) I agree, really like the sound of that chord. Particularly in the chorus of Junkhead by AIC