The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

Cheers, I think the slight thin-ness on the guitar tracks is down to me having ended up with an inate fear of mud!

Yeah I know that's what it is. Like I said before, you need to re-train, re-learn your tracking seetup. You have an actual cab now and all those hoops you jumped through before probably aren't necessary anymore - or at least much less necessary. All of this is totally normal. On the plus side, the new learning process will go much faster and you'll be blowing away anything you did before in no time. You already are.

[JD01]

Cheers, I think the slight thin-ness on the guitar tracks is down to me having ended up with an inate fear of mud!

Yeah I know that's what it is. Like I said before, you need to re-train, re-learn your tracking seetup. You have an actual cab now and all those hoops you jumped through before probably aren't necessary anymore - or at least much less necessary. All of this is totally normal. On the plus side, the new learning process will go much faster and you'll be blowing away anything you did before in no time. You already are.

Yeah - at the moment I am happy with them 'cos they are clearly some of the best tones that I've ever recorded, but my tone will gradually keep evolving over time - the next thing I want to do is get a bit more chunk into them. These ones are actually driven with the OCD not the SD1 and the OCD has a hi-pass/low-pass switch (no neutral). I slightly prefer the voicing of the OCD over the SD1 but that could be where some of the meat is going missing.

A few months ago I was pretty much done with the Blackstar and committed to getting a H&K - I'm actually pretty happy with it now and its nice to have the option to play it as a combo when I am travelling around.

Just thought of a good hook for the chorus too - so this song should take shape pretty quickly over the next few weeks and I've found a better method for recording vocals too.

[Minerman]

Morning Miner, I think it sounds pretty good, but I do feel a bit like it has that muffled/boxiness to it, might just be 'cos its a very thick bass heavy tone with a lot of gain, but I think it needs to brighten up a bit.
That you drumming in the mix? You're still getting better mate - well done.

I think the cleans that come in over the top in the mix sound fucking excellent - that's a tone I'd like to copy.

The dirty tone most likely needs work with the mic placement dude, the T-75's are notoriously fizzy & I made sure the mic was pretty far off the cap to keep that shit at bay...A simple mic movement will take care of that, or a little eq in the daw, but I'd rather get it right from the source...

Yes, that's me on the e-kit using Superior Drummer 3 dude...The only thing I changed in SD3 was the midi mapping to match my kit...

The clean surprised me, this little amp is a gain monster, but with a lower gain tube in the V2 slot, it cleans up a lot, making the amp more versatile...Thanks again dude...

Did you record the cleans in the iso cab as well? That's the biggest weakness with the iso box I built - I can't record a clean tone at all, they come out with a distorted sound to them.

Yes Jonny, all the guitars were recorded with the iso cab...

Minerman,
sounds good - particularly for an initial drive by. Some dialing in to come as usual then sweetness I hope.

Thanks Ray, it'll take a little time as it's basically a new piece of gear I'll have to learn...Thanks again...

Wooooohoooooo !!! thats a great first clip \o/ ... now comes the tweaking,this things gonna kick arse \o/

Thanks man, I'm pretty happy with it so far...

minerman that sounds bad ass. I'd never have guessed that's a speaker in an isobox if I didn't know it already. It has your signature sound and it's not all honky and boxy like that Randall box was. I'd say it's on par with your first box and can only get better from here. Very well done.

Thanks Greg, I was worried that all this $$$ & work I put into this thing would be wasted, but so far it's doing pretty damn good...I'm gonna swap some speakers today & see what I can come up with...

I did notice the outer lid rattling a little last night, so I'm gonna have to get some stronger latches to pull that thing down tighter...I'm gonna pack around the jackplate with a little more Roxul & seal up the area behind the inner hinge, as I'm sure some noise is leaking from back there...But for the initial run, this thing does pretty good, & I'm pretty damn happy with it...

[cakewalkKaKed]

dam! these recordings are getting good

[Minerman]

Ok here's a short-n-shitty clip that'll give you an idea how much noise the new ISO cab kills...I'd planned on doing a video, using a decibel meter on a cell phone, but there's no way what it read could be correct...I had it about in the middle of the room, & it read 80db whether the lids were open or closed, no difference...
So I said fuck it & threw the phone back into the drawer where it'd been for almost 2 years...

I did set a condenser mic in the middle of the room, about 5' or so in the air, about where someone's ears would be...The mic pre was set at about "5" & everything is exactly the same except the lids being open/closed...

Signal chain:
SG > EVH LBX > Celestion Greenback > Audix i5

Amp settings:
15w mode
Blue channel
Volume: 5
Gain: 9
Resonance: 2-3
Bass: 7
Mid: 5
Treble: 5
Presence: 5



I didn't spend much time dialing this tone in, I was more interested in showing you guys how much noise the ISO cab kills...I don't think the tone is terrible, but it could definitely be improved...

ISO Cab Lids Open 10-9-2017.mp3

ISO Cab Lids Closed 10-9-2017.mp3

ISO Cab Greenback 10-9-2017.mp3

I tried to use the Soundcloud thing where everyone could listen without downloading, but it won't show for some reason...Maybe it's me, but I can't get it to work...

Here are the Soundcloud links in case anyone's interested:

https://soundcloud.com/minerman1970/iso ... -10-9-2017

https://soundcloud.com/minerman1970/iso ... -10-9-2017

https://soundcloud.com/minerman1970/iso ... -10-9-2017


Lemme know what you guys think...

[Greg_L]

Damn that's a pretty huge difference. That's a pretty significant ambient volume reduction. The mic'd clip sounds pretty good too. Nice work!

[Minerman]

Damn that's a pretty huge difference. That's a pretty significant ambient volume reduction. The mic'd clip sounds pretty good too. Nice work!

Thanks dude, I've gotta get some stronger/heavier latches for the outer lid, it rattles like hell unless I push down on it, I don't think those 2 little rubber t-handles are gonna cut it, but that's not a big deal...Easy fix...

As far as the mic'd tone, I thought it needed a little more high end, but I've always leaned toward bright-ass clips...I've gotta get used to the new ISO cab too, it'll work out though...

Thanks again...

[Greg_L]

Thanks dude, I've gotta get some stronger/heavier latches for the outer lid, it rattles like hell unless I push down on it, I don't think those 2 little rubber t-handles are gonna cut it, but that's not a big deal...Easy fix...

As far as the mic'd tone, I thought it needed a little more high end, but I've always leaned toward bright-ass clips...I've gotta get used to the new ISO cab too, it'll work out though...

Thanks again...

It could be a little brighter, but it wasn't bad to me.

[cakewalkKaKed]

Ok here's a short

kewl! its looooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud !!! .. it defo compresses a bit with the lid shut,but with the volume your going waaaay over the headroom of the box,so its bound too

maybe try and take a hair off the total volume in the FX loop,or more material inside? .. or both

this is same stuff i have probs with,its why im following so closely at the mo ... kinda like a stalker

[Minerman]

kewl! its looooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud !!! .. it defo compresses a bit with the lid shut,but with the volume your going waaaay over the headroom of the box,so its bound too

maybe try and take a hair off the total volume in the FX loop,or more material inside? .. or both

this is same stuff i have probs with,its why im following so closely at the mo ... kinda like a stalker

Thanks man, it's hard to gauge how loud an amp is unless you've got 'em to compare, but I guess this is about the volume I was recording with the big EL34 amps, again, I don't have 'em anymore, so I can't really say that for sure...This little amp is a monster IMO, it's got an EL84 power section, & is only 15 watts, but this little fucker is loud...Of course either of the EL34 amps I had would drown it out, but it still surprises me...

Not sure what you mean by "take a hair off the volume in the fx loop", unless you're suggesting using a volume pedal or something in the loop like an attenuator...

Ain't gonna be able to add any more material to the box dude, it's got as much rockwool as it'll hold...I do still need to put a 20" piece of wood toward the back & silicone the jackplate...Those 2 things might help, but then again, it might not even be noticeable...Bigger, stronger latches will stop the outer lid from vibrating, so I need to do that too...

I'm also thinking of putting a little grill cloth in it, then draw/paint where the cap is to make it easier & quicker dialing the mic in...

Overall, I'm pretty happy with it, just guessing, it kills at least half the noise, if not more...

[Greg_L]

Not sure what you mean by "take a hair off the volume in the fx loop", unless you're suggesting using a volume pedal or something in the loop like an attenuator...

It would depend on where in the circuit the master volume and effects loop is, but I'm betting that trick won't do anything a simple twist of the volume knob wouldn't do.

It's a good trick to boost volume though when playing live.

[cakewalkKaKed]

Not sure what you mean by "take a hair off the volume in the fx loop", unless you're suggesting using a volume pedal or something in the loop like an attenuator...

It would depend on where in the circuit the master volume and effects loop is, but I'm betting that trick won't do anything a simple twist of the volume knob wouldn't do.

It's a good trick to boost volume though when playing live.

yeah thats what i meant,i can only speak for what i tried ... mine has 3 fx loops, 1 of thems kinda a master for inserting something like an EQ and has a 3 position switch for how it works <- this ere is where mine went from horrible bumble bee to a lot less horrible bumble bee.it also got the volume down in the room a lil (or a lot for 3am) that and a dodgey variable resistor

my mate bunged a volume knob in a project box for the fx loop of his Fender Fuckknows?,he`s considering building an iso cab,so might be along later (woohoo,that be 2 crazy fookers that type weird n cant spell,betcha cant wait)

you`ll prob hate this too,round the top of my box i put 2 layers of thin stick on draft sealer (bear in mind my walls are 40mm thick) into the gap between i squeezed in a £2 tube of black silicone all round ... after that i cut a bin liner into strips,laid that onto the silicone then left the lid on for 24 hours for the silicone to cure .. (the weight of my lid forced the silicone to find its own level) then peeled off the bin liner strips .. its not that ugly but,it seals perfectly with no rattles (maybe its de-coupling effect helped too ?)




that grill cloth idea is brilliant \o/,stooopid foooker me shoulda thought of that!

btw i have a 5?watt hughes n kettener thing,thats too bloody loud too (this H&K is a source of my woes,more about that at some later point)

that polystyrene panel pic that should appear somewhere is what i used to make an inner box.it sounded terrible so i pulled it out,it added this weird "thhhhhhhhk" sound .. anyhoo out that went and in went underlay

[JD01]

Miner, I think that clip sounds great. The miked greenback in this clip sounds better to me than what you posted up the other day.

The volume reduction is pretty amazing too - you must be really happy with that - I bet when you're monitoring in headphones you really only hear what the mic is picking up with virtually no bleed from the box.

[Minerman]

Re-tracked some rhythms today to a song that hasn't got words yet - think I've got some keepers though
I'm kind of loving the new cab.

Single guitar
Test PreChor and Chor.mp3
Double tracked
Test PreChor and Chor Double tracked.mp3
Full Mix
Test PreChor and Chor Mix.mp3

I meant to give these a listen when you posted 'em dude, but I've been up to my neck in an ISO cab & Superior Drummer 3...

These clips sound pretty good to me Jdude, since you got the new cab your tones have improved a lot IMO...

I know you're a V30 fanboy (I'm not too crazy about 'em myself), & are hot on the heels of Chad Kroeger's famous, highly sought after, incendiary tone, but I'd suggest you get another speaker for that new cab, something that will mix well with your V30, like a Greenback or similar...That way you could have a different speaker on each side of your mix & it'd sound like 2 different rigs...A different mic might work like that too...Just a suggestion, you're doing fine with what you have dude...

[JD01]

Re-tracked some rhythms today to a song that hasn't got words yet - think I've got some keepers though
I'm kind of loving the new cab.

Single guitar
Test PreChor and Chor.mp3
Double tracked
Test PreChor and Chor Double tracked.mp3
Full Mix
Test PreChor and Chor Mix.mp3

I meant to give these a listen when you posted 'em dude, but I've been up to my neck in an ISO cab & Superior Drummer 3...

These clips sound pretty good to me Jdude, since you got the new cab your tones have improved a lot IMO...

I know you're a V30 fanboy (I'm not too crazy about 'em myself), & are hot on the heels of Chad Kroeger's famous, highly sought after, incendiary tone, but I'd suggest you get another speaker for that new cab, something that will mix well with your V30, like a Greenback or similar...That way you could have a different speaker on each side of your mix & it'd sound like 2 different rigs...A different mic might work like that too...Just a suggestion, you're doing fine with what you have dude...

Miner - those tones are actually a 50/50 blend of a 57 on one speaker and an i5 on the other speaker!
To keep things simple I could go for a 75/25 and a 25/75 blend on each of my rhythm guitars to make them sound a bit more different.

You're right though - a different speaker would be great in the longer term... I am kind of lazy though and at the moment I don't have to move any mics between takes

[JD01]

I know you're a V30 fanboy (I'm not too crazy about 'em myself), & are hot on the heels of Chad Kroeger's famous, highly sought after, incendiary tone,

[Greg_L]

I know you're a V30 fanboy (I'm not too crazy about 'em myself), & are hot on the heels of Chad Kroeger's famous, highly sought after, incendiary tone,

Savage.

[Minerman]

I know you're a V30 fanboy (I'm not too crazy about 'em myself), & are hot on the heels of Chad Kroeger's famous, highly sought after, incendiary tone,

Savage.

I thought you guys would get a kick outta that...

[Minerman]

Ok Tonetards, I've been messing with mic combinations & settled on the Audix i5 blended with the Sennehiser e609...They seem to compliment each other pretty good IMO...Not sure if they're 100% in phase, but I don't hear any weirdness, & flipping the phase in the daw does about what I expect, so I think they're good...

I'm really surprised by how quiet the new ISO cab is in the room, I'm able to dime this amp, & still be able to have a conversation over the noise, so it works pretty damn good IMO...I'm not sure how it'd handle a bigger amp, but hopefully I'll find that out before too much longer, but I'm gonna get an attenuator first to make sure I don't fry any of my speakers...It's just fuckin' great to be able to play through my amp at night (or anytime) instead of an ampsim, without worrying about getting a visit from the cops...

One thing about this little amp is, well, it's a little amp, & it kinda farts out when fully dimed...It seems like it looses it's headroom around 7-8, so I've been rolling the volume back to there to try to keep it from flabbing/farting out...I'm also hearing some static that's probably coming from a tube...I first thought it was something in the cab rattling, but I plugged the amp into my 4x12 & it still does it, so I'll have to do some tube swapping...Most likely, it's the 12AU7 I have in V2 to cut some of the gain...I have a handful of those, so I'll probably do some tinkering later tonight...


Signal chain:
SG > EVH LBX > Greenback > i5/e609 (raw tracks, no eq or anything in the daw)

Amp settings:
15w mode

• Resonance: 2-3
  Gain: 1
  Bass: 8
  Mid: 4
  Treble: 4
  Volume: 8
  Presence: 6

I thought it'd be cool to put a pic of the mic positions in the SC thing so you guys could see how I've got 'em set up...

Lemme know what you think...

[Greg_L]

Shit miner those all sound pretty damn good. Even the single mic clips sound good to me. Very well done!