The Tone Thread

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
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Greg_L
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

cakewalkKaKed wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:06 am i get what you mean,for me maybe it would be "It's like he's turning great amps into van halen bedroom recording amps?" ..
I really don't know how loud or quiet his videos are. He made it seem to me that his stuff is mainly for dicking around at home. He said it doesn't work well at big volumes, which tells me that live use is not a concern. Maybe they record well, his clips sound pretty good. If that's the goal then he does it well. I'd love to hear one live in person and see what it really sounds like. He plays that style really well which showcases that sound much better than I can with my own version.
so the PPIMV mod is not switchable? .. how bout your wire ? .. prob a ball ache to explain it again,but if you could link me that would be great :)
The PPIMV could be made switchable, but you don't have to do it like that because if you turn it all the way up it takes it out of the circuit. The main point of a PPIMV is to take a very loud amp that has no master volume and give it a master volume after the phase inverter. You still get a mostly "cranked" sound at lower volumes. But it does affect the tone if you turn it down too much. 50/100 watt non-master volume amps are simply not made to be bedroom amps. But at reasonable volume reduction, like for playing live or proper loud recording, they sound very good. The PPIMV even adds a little gain due to it driving the phase inverter harder.

My "one-wire" mod is switchable. I put it on a push-pull pot so the amp can still function as a normal Plexi, which is how I use it pretty much 100% of the time. It's a long thread full of head-scratching, but here it is:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=697
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by cakewalkKaKed »

thanks,read it .. will need to reread it again later .. lots to digest,but i understand the mods now :)
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

cakewalkKaKed wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:42 am theres a guy over at HR considering building a cab,was gonna post and refer him to your build. thats stealing traffic from there imo .. so didnt,you as the thread owner could though http://homerecording.com/bbs/special-fo ... gn-396376/ .. might be fun to have more hands on ?

don't think we`ll ever stop chasing tweaks n tones,but over the years ive learned that sims 100% arent for me,soo,its gather and tweak junk n keep plodding on,frustrating .. but kinda fun (in an S&M way :D) ...
If that guy wants to come here & participate that'd be ok, but I'm not going back to HR dude...I spent a few years at HR, & it was home for me, but some shit happened (not to me) that left a bad vibe there for me, so I split, & won't go back for any reason...Don't mean to sound like a dick, but the shit that happened was totally unnecessary...

The build I'm on is loosely based on the Silent Sister's labyrinth because all the research I've done points to that being the difference maker between Rivera's & the other ISO cabs (the Randall in particular), having a boxy sound when recorded...I had a Randall ISO, & simply could not get the boxy, woofy sound to go away, even with daw trickery...The first ISO I built sounded pretty good, & I think it's where I just slapped it together, leaving air gaps here/there, allowing the speaker/mic to move/breathe like they're supposed to...

I have a vent on each box (opposite ends), but skipped the labyrinth frame thing, I just left some space in the roxul leading from one vent to the other...Of course, leaving holes in the cab is gonna leak sound & make it a little louder, but for me the trade-off will be worth it because it'll sound natural...Hopefully... :biggrin:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by cakewalkKaKed »

Minerman wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:43 pm
cakewalkKaKed wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:42 am theres a guy over at HR considering building a cab,was gonna post and refer him to your build. thats stealing traffic from there imo .. so didnt,you as the thread owner could though http://homerecording.com/bbs/special-fo ... gn-396376/ .. might be fun to have more hands on ?

don't think we`ll ever stop chasing tweaks n tones,but over the years ive learned that sims 100% arent for me,soo,its gather and tweak junk n keep plodding on,frustrating .. but kinda fun (in an S&M way :D) ...
If that guy wants to come here & participate that'd be ok, but I'm not going back to HR dude...I spent a few years at HR, & it was home for me, but some shit happened (not to me) that left a bad vibe there for me, so I split, & won't go back for any reason...Don't mean to sound like a dick, but the shit that happened was totally unnecessary...

The build I'm on is loosely based on the Silent Sister's labyrinth because all the research I've done points to that being the difference maker between Rivera's & the other ISO cabs (the Randall in particular), having a boxy sound when recorded...I had a Randall ISO, & simply could not get the boxy, woofy sound to go away, even with daw trickery...The first ISO I built sounded pretty good, & I think it's where I just slapped it together, leaving air gaps here/there, allowing the speaker/mic to move/breathe like they're supposed to...

I have a vent on each box (opposite ends), but skipped the labyrinth frame thing, I just left some space in the roxul leading from one vent to the other...Of course, leaving holes in the cab is gonna leak sound & make it a little louder, but for me the trade-off will be worth it because it'll sound natural...Hopefully... :biggrin:
you musta seen this? [BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ko-vB87ZEc[/BBvideo]

more halen,so that will please greg :P

i watched this many times,thought the difference was massive ... that vid was the "breathe" convincer to me


one thing that surprised me (mine is made from 40mm kitchen worktops) is the lid i bunged on,originally i had it in mind to make it bout 400mm high on a hinge,but i hugely underestimated the weight,and what a ballache it would be to change mic position .. so,i made a seal and sat 2 of the sides flat straight on top .. it has a very slight gap right down the middle ... underneath that is a layer of underlay that i peel back each time i open it .. anyhoo,the surprise was just how much volume got killed just by that 1 layer of underlay .. and half the lid,maybe your leakage wont be as bad as your expecting? .. hope so :)

that haleny SS isnt the one you had i think ... but thoughts on the vid sound ?


if other guy (or anyone else) searches google he`s sure to find your thread .. saw googlebot earlier,pretty sure bots are good to go here
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

cakewalkKaKed wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:06 pm you musta seen this? [BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ko-vB87ZEc[/BBvideo]

more halen,so that will please greg :P

i watched this many times,thought the difference was massive ... that vid was the "breathe" convincer to me


one thing that surprised me (mine is made from 40mm kitchen worktops) is the lid i bunged on,originally i had it in mind to make it bout 400mm high on a hinge,but i hugely underestimated the weight,and what a ballache it would be to change mic position .. so,i made a seal and sat 2 of the sides flat straight on top .. it has a very slight gap right down the middle ... underneath that is a layer of underlay that i peel back each time i open it .. anyhoo,the surprise was just how much volume got killed just by that 1 layer of underlay .. and half the lid,maybe your leakage wont be as bad as your expecting? .. hope so :)

that haleny SS isnt the one you had i think ... but thoughts on the vid sound ?


if other guy (or anyone else) searches google he`s sure to find your thread .. saw googlebot earlier,pretty sure bots are good to go here
Yeah that plus 1,000,000 other clips/videos dude, this has been about 3-4 years of an ongoing thing leading up to where I'm at now...Later down the road they're might be another version, maybe, but for now I gotta wrap this build up...

The SS wins hands down in that vid dude, no contest...The SS tone is pretty good, but could be improved on IMHO...I had the Randall ISO dude, never tried any of the others...

I used 3/4" MDF on the first build, with a 3/4" inner box with roxul stuffed between...This build is 1/2" plywood with 1/2" sheetrock/drywall with green glue between all the layers, using roxul again, matter of fact it's the same bundle of roxul I bought 3-4 years ago...

Just google "diy ISO cab" & you'll find all kinds of info dude...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Ok dudes, here's the first run with the new ISO cab, nothing spectacular, just a little jam I made up...

Signal chain:
SG > EVH LBX > Celestion G12-T75 > Audix i5

Amp settings:
15w mode
Blue channel
Volume: 3
Gain: 7
Resonance: 2-3
Bass: 8
Mid: 5
Treble: 5
Presence: 2

The tone clip doesn't have anything on it, but in the mix clip, all the guitars have reverb...The clean tone is the same as the other guitars, I just dropped the gain to about "2" & raised the volume to about 6...





So far so good with this thing, & BTW, the drums on this are one of Superior Drummer 3's stock kits, no tweaking at all...

Tomorrow I'm gonna take the speakers out of my Bastard cab & give 'em a test with the new cab...I'm actually pretty happy with this thing, to be honest I expected it to suck, but so far it's doing pretty good IMO...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Morning Miner, I think it sounds pretty good, but I do feel a bit like it has that muffled/boxiness to it, might just be 'cos its a very thick bass heavy tone with a lot of gain, but I think it needs to brighten up a bit.
That you drumming in the mix? You're still getting better mate - well done.

I think the cleans that come in over the top in the mix sound fucking excellent - that's a tone I'd like to copy.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by jonny deep »

Minerman wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:00 am Ok dudes, here's the first run with the new ISO cab, nothing spectacular, just a little jam I made up...
Did you record the cleans in the iso cab as well? That's the biggest weakness with the iso box I built - I can't record a clean tone at all, they come out with a distorted sound to them.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

cakewalkKaKed wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:14 am HOLY SHIT !!!

\o/ this is squishy as hell !!! :D

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz1zQ-tCABU[/BBvideo]
There's NOTHING I can relate to in that vid - tone or playing. Odd stuff.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Minerman,
sounds good - particularly for an initial drive by. Some dialing in to come as usual then sweetness I hope.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by cakewalkKaKed »

Wooooohoooooo !!! thats a great first clip \o/ ... now comes the tweaking,this things gonna kick arse \o/

:)
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by cakewalkKaKed »

rayc wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:35 am
There's NOTHING I can relate to in that vid - tone or playing. Odd stuff.
yeah! as a recording it sucks ... cam mic? ... but its all squishy !!! dats dem valves baybee :D
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

The PPIMV mod is an additional AUS$120 - that's approx $270 for the 2 modifications.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:23 am The PPIMV mod is an additional AUS$120 - that's approx $270 for the 2 modifications.
Not too bad.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

minerman that sounds bad ass. I'd never have guessed that's a speaker in an isobox if I didn't know it already. It has your signature sound and it's not all honky and boxy like that Randall box was. I'd say it's on par with your first box and can only get better from here. Very well done.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Re-tracked some rhythms today to a song that hasn't got words yet - think I've got some keepers though :)
I'm kind of loving the new cab.

Single guitar
Test PreChor and Chor.mp3
Double tracked
Test PreChor and Chor Double tracked.mp3
Full Mix
Test PreChor and Chor Mix.mp3
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

They're mono you mongo. :D

The single one sounds pretty good though.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:47 am They're mono you mongo. :D

The single one sounds pretty good though.
LOL - Shit-Bollock. Was fucking about with mono mixing and totally dry mixing with this one and mixed them fucking mono. haha.

Here they are in Stereo:

Double tracked
Test PreChor and Chor Double tracked.mp3
Mix
Test PreChor and Chor Mix.mp3
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

The new cab is a huge improvement. The tones are a little thin to me, but not too bad. The kick and bass are all clackity clack again. I think you can get a little meatier on the guitar tracks and get em up louder.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:31 pm The new cab is a huge improvement. The tones are a little thin to me, but not too bad. The kick and bass are all clackity clack again. I think you can get a little meatier on the guitar tracks and get em up louder.
Cheers, I think the slight thin-ness on the guitar tracks is down to me having ended up with an inate fear of mud!

I just checked the mix - I had a bump on the kick at 3K to get some beater attack, but it was about 6db of beater clack - I was probably using a spike to to help me find where the beater clack was and then forgot to reduce it. Cheers. The bassline on this is pretty tricky too so I might have been picking the bass even more waywardly than usual!
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