The Tone Thread

[liv_rong]

Here's a quick and hopeless sound sample of the sound of my modded Marshall Superbass MkII. It was given a mod to convert it to Superlead specs and also a mod to add a PPIMV.
For the clip I used the left top input 1st with vol set at max and the MV 9 o'clock
I repeated that with the MV at Noon.
Everything else it set at noon
I blended a 57 about 15 cm back and a 609 up against the grill at almost at the right edge.
I'll need to rework the mic placement after some experimentation etc as this is now a different animal I did 1st use both against the grill but the result was VERY dark from the 57. On this recording there's about 15% more 609 than 57.
No tweaking just the raw recordings
Next I plugged into the top right input and repeated the same process as above.
I played a progression of power chords except for the very last part of the sample where I played some open chords.
mODDED mARSHALLb.mp3

Sounds good to me! Im no tone expert though, that's why I generally dont post in here much because I have nothing to contribute, but I like what I hear especially the last two.

[liv_rong]

Is it a metal track? Sounds it. Distorted guitars sound cool.
the chugga part sounds VERY LP.
The drums were interesting but no comment due to context.
Well done.

Not really a metal thing, its actually a ambient type thing that builds and gets heavy at the end. Thanks for the lsiten!

To my ears they sound a bit muffled and dark, but I don't know if it's the lack of highs or the the presence of too much bass signal, nor do I know how you intend to mix these -- will there be additional high-frequency content to balance it out? will you be rolling off some bass?

I think it might be the mics being so close that's adding too much bass, though. I wonder how they would sound if you left guitar/pedal/amp settings the same, but moved the mics away from the grill a bit, not a lot, 1-3 fingers, to kill a bit of proximity effect? May be tricky to balance, because the chugga parts of the tracks sound great as is...

Thanks! Listening again this morning I really dislike the tele track altogether. I get what you're saying about the low end, I will try to back off on the mics a little and see what happens. The bass is already down pretty low and the presence is up past 12:00, gain is also low, so gotta be mic placement. As far as the chugga part goes I can still use the original and make it all work, probably.

[Minerman]

A couple cuts from takes from my EP. Still tweaking these dirty sounds.

These are two tracks blended, no mixing or panning or anything. I think the LP track will work just fine. Both mics are 57's, one is between the center and edge on axis just barely off the grill. The other is near the edge off axis pointing towards the center, again barely off the grill.

The LP is bridge pickup, EP Booster and MKIV channel on my amp.

Tele is bridge pup, ep booster and Crunch channel.

The last is the drum tracks that go with it, just posted these for fun. Also raw tracks, just overheads panned. Really happy with how these turned out, I think after mixing will sound good.

These guitar clips sound a little dark to me dude, they might sit in a mix well, but IMHO they need a little high end...
Drums are cool dude, this gives me yet another clip of raw drums to use as reference for my fake drums...

Here's a quick and hopeless sound sample of the sound of my modded Marshall Superbass MkII. It was given a mod to convert it to Superlead specs and also a mod to add a PPIMV.
For the clip I used the left top input 1st with vol set at max and the MV 9 o'clock
I repeated that with the MV at Noon.
Everything else it set at noon
I blended a 57 about 15 cm back and a 609 up against the grill at almost at the right edge.
I'll need to rework the mic placement after some experimentation etc as this is now a different animal I did 1st use both against the grill but the result was VERY dark from the 57. On this recording there's about 15% more 609 than 57.
No tweaking just the raw recordings
Next I plugged into the top right input and repeated the same process as above.
I played a progression of power chords except for the very last part of the sample where I played some open chords.
mODDED mARSHALLb.mp3

Not bad Ray, like Liv's clips, I think you could stand a tad more high end "bite"...The last part starting around 1:18 or so sounds better to me than the rest...I'm assuming that's when you turned the master volume to "5"...
Of course since you just got the amp back, it's basically a new piece of gear you'll have to get used to...

[Greg_L]

A couple cuts from takes from my EP. Still tweaking these dirty sounds.

These are two tracks blended, no mixing or panning or anything. I think the LP track will work just fine. Both mics are 57's, one is between the center and edge on axis just barely off the grill. The other is near the edge off axis pointing towards the center, again barely off the grill.

The LP is bridge pickup, EP Booster and MKIV channel on my amp.

Tele is bridge pup, ep booster and Crunch channel.

The last is the drum tracks that go with it, just posted these for fun. Also raw tracks, just overheads panned. Really happy with how these turned out, I think after mixing will sound good.

I think the LP clip is pretty good. I like it. The tele clip is very dark and I suspect it might have trouble in a mix....unless you just want a super dark guitar part.

[Greg_L]

Here's a quick and hopeless sound sample of the sound of my modded Marshall Superbass MkII. It was given a mod to convert it to Superlead specs and also a mod to add a PPIMV.
For the clip I used the left top input 1st with vol set at max and the MV 9 o'clock
I repeated that with the MV at Noon.
Everything else it set at noon
I blended a 57 about 15 cm back and a 609 up against the grill at almost at the right edge.
I'll need to rework the mic placement after some experimentation etc as this is now a different animal I did 1st use both against the grill but the result was VERY dark from the 57. On this recording there's about 15% more 609 than 57.
No tweaking just the raw recordings
Next I plugged into the top right input and repeated the same process as above.
I played a progression of power chords except for the very last part of the sample where I played some open chords.
mODDED mARSHALLb.mp3

Yeah Ray! Congrats on getting that beast back home. I think I can tell it's already going to be so much better than it was. You must have had the volume rolled back on the guitar to get that clean with the amp vol on 10. No matter, it works. Now I think you need to relearn your mic placements. You've got a little empty seashell thing happening with the mics at different distances like that. They're not far enough apart to get away with that kind of placement. I'd suggest you get them at the same distance. Start at the grill. Put the 57 right at the dustcap/cone seam of the speaker, and the 609 right next to it on the meat of the cone. That'll get you started. That should be a good blend that's in phase and can be juggled in the DAW.

Keep working with it. You have a new amp now. Start from scratch and forget everything you thought you knew about it before.

[rayc]

Here's another run through with the mic placings as Greg suggested.
The mic blend is 50/50.
The guitar was full treble & full volume.
I do have to experiment and dial in Presence, Bass & Treble - for this exercise they are all at noon.
The channel volumes are set at max with the MV in the 1st set are the "clean" channel - 9 o'clock, noon & 3 o'clock followed by the same in the "dirty" channel.

Modded Marshall V2 (3).mp3

DSC02408.JPG

DSC02412.JPG

DSC02405.JPG

DSC02411.JPG

The Current PRESENCE KNOB is the MV. He put a gold cap on it so I wouldn't get it wrong.
I'm used my Squire Mustang because it was at hand but I don't think it & the Marshall really get on.

[Greg_L]

I like the sound Ray. You're getting some nice breakup now. The mic placement definitely works better.

I'm a little confused though by what you mean by clean channel and dirty channel, and why it's not raging insanity with cranked channel volumes.

Vol 1 should be the bright channel
Vol 2 is the normal channel

Either of those on 10 should be verging on insanity. Did he do any other mods besides the MV and supposedly converting it to Super Lead spec?

[rayc]

Input 1 seems "cleaner" than input 2 so I just called them that.
No other mods than the Super & PPIMV.
It's insane "in the room".
I'll try a few things today.

[Minerman]

Here's another run through with the mic placings as Greg suggested.
The mic blend is 50/50.
The guitar was full treble & full volume.
I do have to experiment and dial in Presence, Bass & Treble - for this exercise they are all at noon.
The channel volumes are set at max with the MV in the 1st set are the "clean" channel - 9 o'clock, noon & 3 o'clock followed by the same in the "dirty" channel.
The Current PRESENCE KNOB is the MV. He put a gold cap on it so I wouldn't get it wrong.
I'm used my Squire Mustang because it was at hand but I don't think it & the Marshall really get on.

You're getting there Ray, I like this clip better than the previous, so I'd say it's just gonna take some time to learn as it's basically a new amp...

It's insane "in the room".

There's nothing quite like playing through an amp that's in it's zone dude...

[rayc]

Thanks Minerman & Greg.
I really need to relearn everything about micing & recording this amp/cab/room. It's quite bright and very loud in the room and I have to mute strings to stop it from howling but that's cool too.
I tried a different guitar today. An ancient & formerly cheap Guyatone with a no name humbucker in the bridge position. Bridge PU selected and tone cranked full treble. Mic placements remain from yesterday.
The difference was astounding.
Attached is an MP3 of the Guyatone the top I input at noon, 3pm & full tilt then in the top II input at noon, 3pm and full tilt again.
I experimented with an old Tele knock off but as its selector is stuck in the out of phase position I didn't see much point posting that and I had a go with my Bruno semi acoustic and couldn't control it at the very start - feedback and screaming everywhere - handy for when I need it.
The MV fully cranked caused pressure waves on my chest as well as rumble in inputs 1 as well as in all positions with input II. My head is aching as well.
I also had a run through with a room mic, (slid it into phase in the box) and that added some omph as well but far too much Boxy room sound to be useful.
Oh, I did the top input I then link bottom I to top II thing for fun and found with the guitar went berserk very, very quickly in almost all setting. Something to remember for when I want that - crikey it hurt my brain too.

Modded Marshall V3.mp3

[Greg_L]

It's good Ray. It sounds cool. It's definitely got that Plexi thing to it now.

You're describing some things that raise my wtf-o-meter though.

1) What do you mean by "rumble" when you crank the new master vol?
2) What do you mean by "berserk" when jumping the inputs?

I ask because rumble and berserk are cool when it's intentional, but things shouldn't be that way just as a matter of course. I'm just trying to make sure everything is good to go and there's not something goofy going on with your amp.

I also think you should be getting a little more breakup from channel 1. These are not high gain amps, and maybe it's just how you're strumming, but I'm thinking it should be a little more "squishy". And I'm finding it a little bit strange that channel 2 is so much dirtier than channel 1. Channel 2 should have more bass, but not necessarily more dirt.

[rayc]

Greg,
Rumble - wrong word, just low bass when I hit the low E - I can feel it. It's unbelievably quiet when the strings are muted so it's not a constant thing.
Beserk - I started at high volume so reaching in the guitar started to turn the knobs the thing fed back wildly. I had trouble finding an angle at which it was settled. I didn't persist but do need to a) wear protection and b) persist & c) record the results.
The semi acoustic feedback was almost uncontrollable with the MV higher - stepping back, turning around etc I wasn't able to find a spot where it didn't feed back. That'll take some experimentation as the sound from the single coils was great.
I was strumming fairly gently.
Thanks for the detailed analysis. I appreciate it.
I will ask the tech. whay he thinks the two inputs are so very different.

[Greg_L]

Greg,
Rumble - wrong word, just low bass when I hit the low E - I can feel it. It's unbelievably quiet when the strings are muted so it's not a constant thing.
Beserk - I started at high volume so reaching in the guitar started to turn the knobs the thing fed back wildly. I had trouble finding an angle at which it was settled. I didn't persist but do need to a) wear protection and b) persist & c) record the results.
The semi acoustic feedback was almost uncontrollable with the MV higher - stepping back, turning around etc I wasn't able to find a spot where it didn't feed back. That'll take some experimentation as the sound from the single coils was great.
I was strumming fairly gently.
Thanks for the detailed analysis. I appreciate it.
I will ask the tech. whay he thinks the two inputs are so very different.

Okay cool.

One thing about jumping the inputs...you don't crank both of them. That's just too much everything. Usually what you do is use them to balance each other out. Like say you wanna have the bulk of your tone be the bright channel, but you need a little extra thickness, you then jump the channels and bring in a little of the normal channel. It'll add a little thickness and a little gain. When I jump the channels, I'll usually have my bright channel vol around 6, and the normal around 3. That's a pretty good blend for my kind of sound on my amps.

[Minerman]

You're getting there Ray, I hear improvement with each clip you post...I'm starting to hear the "bonk" & "kerrang" those amps have that I like so much...

[rayc]

Here's another go.
This time with an Epiphone Seraton II - humbuckers, big, heavy - nominally semi acoustic but, in reality, a plank with wings.
I swapped because the Guyatone gets quite shrill when the guitar vol goes passed 7 and that MAY have had an impact on the results.
I did a run through in neck position and WOW it was beefy. The Input I was very similar to the In II on that one.
For these I set
Presence 5
Bass 6
Mid 7
Treb 6
C Vol 8
MV 5
Each set has an Input II then Input I
The 1st set is with a different dynamic + the e609
The 2nd set is 57 & 609
The last set is 609 with the 57 20cmish back but IN phase.
The Input I versions sounded much, much better in the room so I will have to do some work to capture the "real" sound of the thing.

Modded Marshall V4.mp3

[Greg_L]

Here's another go.
This time with an Epiphone Seraton II - humbuckers, big, heavy - nominally semi acoustic but, in reality, a plank with wings.
I swapped because the Guyatone gets quite shrill when the guitar vol goes passed 7 and that MAY have had an impact on the results.
I did a run through in neck position and WOW it was beefy. The Input I was very similar to the In II on that one.
For these I set
Presence 5
Bass 6
Mid 7
Treb 6
C Vol 8
MV 5
Each set has an Input II then Input I
The 1st set is with a different dynamic + the e609
The 2nd set is 57 & 609
The last set is 609 with the 57 20cmish back but IN phase.
The Input I versions sounded much, much better in the room so I will have to do some work to capture the "real" sound of the thing.
Modded Marshall V4.mp3

I like it Ray, but I'm starting to suspect something is still a bit off. I just feel like your channel 1 is a little neutered still. I think it should be quite a bit dirtier than what you're getting. I know that amp was curiously mild in stock form, and now it seems like it's finally a normal Super Bass, not so much a Super Lead. I hate to bring bad news to you, and I don't know for sure, but it just seems like it's not quite "Super Lead".

Channel 2 seems about right.

This may be asking a lot...but are you comfortable with removing the chassis from the head cab? I'd love to see some pics of the pots and the board.

[rayc]

Channel 2 seems about right.
This may be asking a lot...but are you comfortable with removing the chassis from the head cab? I'd love to see some pics of the pots and the board.

Greg,
Yeah, I can have a go at that.
I have some tradies in this arvo but will attempt that after they've left & I've cleaned up the joint.

[Greg_L]

Greg,
Yeah, I can have a go at that.
I have some tradies in this arvo but will attempt that after they've left & I've cleaned up the joint.

Ok cool. It's actually very very simple. Just don't touch the guts!

1) Remove the back panel. Four screws, nothing to it.
2) Set the amp down on it's face, feet facing you..
3) Remove the four bolts from the bottom of the amp, they're near the feet.
4) Reach in the back and grab the amp by the transformers. These are safe to touch from the outside. Don't touch the round filter caps, they can break. Just grab the big bulky iron transformers.
5) Pull the chassis up and out from the back.
6) Set the amp upside down, guts facing up, on some stacks of books or something on each end so the tubes don't hit anything. It can rest on the transformers, but the tubes will probably hit the floor or bench or whatever you're setting it on. Just prop it up on each side so the tubes don't hit anything.

Once you've done that, please try to take the best pics that you can of the input jacks wiring, tube socket wirings, all of the pots, pics of the board components, speaker jacks, ppimv mod, impedance selector, anything that has wires, capacitors, or resistors going to it.

I know this seems like a lot, but I might be able to see what's going on, or at least get the pics to guys that do. From there I bet we can figure it out somehow. I've already downloaded schematics for a Super Bass and Super Lead. There are about three or four pretty significant differences that need to be addressed.

[rayc]

I know this seems like a lot, but I might be able to see what's going on, or at least get the pics to guys that do. From there I bet we can figure it out somehow. I've already downloaded schematics for a Super Bass and Super Lead. There are about three or four pretty significant differences that need to be addressed.

WEIRDNESS,
I took the back panel off the amp, read the sign off tag, (thanks Shirley, Doreen and NW?), and took a few snaps when I thought I needed to stop for some reason so popped the back on again, came up stairs and there were your instructions...I'll head back down in a minute.
Here are some unnecessary snap I took to ensure I put things back properly...
It's a nice clean beast for a 1979 construction date.
I've sent you a PM with a link to download a zip file of 63 meg of photos from.

DSC02414.JPG

DSC02415.JPG

DSC02416.JPG

[rayc]

Forgot this one - the parts taken from the machine for the modification. The speaker out that has been replaced by the Presence knob and a pair of 022/400 and, I assume,a pair of traces.

022 400.JPG