The Tone Thread

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
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JD01
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

I tried a Metallica cover for the first time today. Bass and drums sorted. Clean guitars sorted... I’ve started using way less gain than I used to though and i wasn’t using anywhere near enough! I thought I’d put loads in but when I listened back it was like a crunchy punk tone! I guess that’s good but wasn’t what I was after.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:55 pm Here is the fruits of my labor for today.

These are scratch tracks. Really rough around the edges still. tried a whole new bunch of settings on the AD30 and a new mic placement. I've sort of been at it all afternoon so i am not sure how much of an improvement any of this has been. my ears are officially done for today.

No acoustic stuff got tracked. :dislike:

The left channel is the one you need to keep yours ears focused on. The right is the same ol hybrit sim settings.

The old set up
LP Jr bridge P90
AD30:
Mstr: 6
Treb: 8
Mid: 8
Bass: 8
Gain: 6

SM57 75% cone 25% cap, 0.5inch off grill.

20171230 -1

The new set up
LP Jr bridge P90
AD30:
Mstr: 7
Treb: 6
Mid: 6
Bass: 4
Gain: 4.5

SM57 50% cone 50% cap, 1.5 inch off grill.


20171230-2
Wife went spontaneously to an afternoon movie with a friend so i seized the moment.

This is as middle of the road between the other two i can get i think? I am finding if stray too far from this mic position things start to get either thinned out and fizzy, darker or flubbier? It still has a tiny bit of shrillness here and there but i can live with it. I am not entering this thing in a beauty pageant i suppose.

20180107-3

LP Jr bridge P90
AD30:
Mstr: 7
Treb: 6
Mid: 6
Bass: 4
Gain: 4.5

SM57 75% cone 25% cap, +/-2 inch off grill.

Oh forgot to add i gave the preamp a boost on the way into the DAW. It added a little tiny bit of something? not sure if it's great or not.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

JD01 wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:04 am
WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:25 pm JD, i am off to find a good notebook this afternoon after our little convo a week or two ago. I think my methods just need ot be more in my face. If only just to write these fucking riffs down and a reminder that all my little half cooked eggs need lyrics. The time that spans between my windows of opportunity i quickly forget whatever it is i play for filler fluff in my arrangements. Thanks for the advice. :like: :like: :sherlock: :sherlock: :coolstorybro:
Cool, even if you just scribble down a fragment that you think is a decent chorus hook, often a whole tune grows out of it. I've been quiet with songwriting the last few months but over the Christmas break I've started working up three new tunes - all of which have "to do" lists in my notebook and they're coming along well.

Anyway, here's the tones from the intro to the latest one, generally pretty pleased with them and they sit in the mix well - there's little crunch fizz that I can here creaping in but that may even be a bit of headphone buzz my end.

Intro Tone Test.mp3
I'm not really hearing any fizz per se. And if there is some there it should disappear in your mix. On it's own i think it sounds pretty good. Interesting to hear it with all the other stuff thrown in on top of it.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:28 pm Okay these clips went straight into the DAW on separate tracks.

421 ctr + 57 cone 50/50 blend in DAW.
421ctr+57cone V30 50-50 seperate blend.mp3



These are the isolated mic tracks from the DAW. You can download and blend them as you choose to compare.

421 center - the bright mic
421ctr V30 isolated.mp3

57 cone - the dark mic
57cone V30 isolated.mp3

If you have time I think it's worth downloading them and playing with the blends. Just put them on separate tracks, they should line up perfectly in any DAW.
I just hand a gander all all this stuff. I think at the end of the day i would still like to have the tracks separate in the DAW myself. I want that freedom to change the blend if i have to depending on the mix. I don't want to be left with one track that's as is and i am going to have screw around with it.

Cool exercise.

For all it's worth when i played with the two individual tracks i dropped the 57 track down -5.27Db and my ears sort of liked that as far a metal tone goes. had a bit of Anthrax kind of feel to it.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Armistice wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:29 pm Thanks Greg and Miner for your feedback on yesterday's song idea. I've retracked and used a janglier/thinner sound on both guitars and hopefully this sounds better - it does to me.

To save anyone else hunting down the post from yesterday, here's the first clip I put up:
Proj 12 song idea take 1

And here's this morning's retrack: Proj 12 song idea take 2

The guitar vs. bass+drums mix might be a bit different, but it's mainly the guitar tone I'm interested in - the rest is just there for context.

All comments appreciated... :like:
I hear a decent improvement between the two. I think you could open up those cleans a little bit more though. I can hear nice sparkle wanting to come out and play for sure.

Is one of those tracks your new Tele? I really dig the melancholy vibe you seem to have dude. I dig it.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

SweetDan wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:19 pm Hello new speaker...goodbye wolly-ness!!!

I'm gonna interrupt just a bit, sorry.

The other day I ordered a new speaker to throw in my Vox AD30VT (early-gen modeling amp). The new speaker was delivered today.

And WOW! does it record better than the old/stock one - take a gander (or it's aural equivalent) at this:
Holy frig what a huge difference man!!! I love hearing those befores and afters. Solid purchase! I saw a video not to long ago where those two cooks from Andertons do a similar experiment with a VOX and just using different speakers. It was really interesting. I think also managed to also prove that where you sit while doing those experiemtns makes a difference as to what you are hearing. It was quite funny.

Night and day difference SD. :like: :like: :like:
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Armistice
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Armistice »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:30 pm
Armistice wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:29 pm Thanks Greg and Miner for your feedback on yesterday's song idea. I've retracked and used a janglier/thinner sound on both guitars and hopefully this sounds better - it does to me.

To save anyone else hunting down the post from yesterday, here's the first clip I put up:
Proj 12 song idea take 1

And here's this morning's retrack: Proj 12 song idea take 2

The guitar vs. bass+drums mix might be a bit different, but it's mainly the guitar tone I'm interested in - the rest is just there for context.

All comments appreciated... :like:
I hear a decent improvement between the two. I think you could open up those cleans a little bit more though. I can hear nice sparkle wanting to come out and play for sure.

Is one of those tracks your new Tele? I really dig the melancholy vibe you seem to have dude. I dig it.
Yep it is. I have v3 at home which is a bit sparklier again - I won't post it - just have to develop the rest of the song and record it properly. Cheers.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Armistice wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:35 pm
Yep it is. I have v3 at home which is a bit sparklier again - I won't post it - just have to develop the rest of the song and record it properly. Cheers.
That's what my ears wanna hear with that tune. A little more sparkle in the geetards.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:09 pm

Wife went spontaneously to an afternoon movie with a friend so i seized the moment.

This is as middle of the road between the other two i can get i think? I am finding if stray too far from this mic position things start to get either thinned out and fizzy, darker or flubbier? It still has a tiny bit of shrillness here and there but i can live with it. I am not entering this thing in a beauty pageant i suppose.

20180107-3

LP Jr bridge P90
AD30:
Mstr: 7
Treb: 6
Mid: 6
Bass: 4
Gain: 4.5

SM57 75% cone 25% cap, +/-2 inch off grill.

Oh forgot to add i gave the preamp a boost on the way into the DAW. It added a little tiny bit of something? not sure if it's great or not.
I'm really liking this the best I think. Keep in mind you have no bass in there and the guitars are overwhelmingly dominating this little sub-mix, so there's that. Throw down some quick bass and see how it all comes together. I'm thinking those guitars probably have enough body and bite to sound great in a fuller mix.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:51 pmKeep in mind you have no bass in there
I have that marriage of the bass with the guitars in my sights / on my radar. I am trying to keep that in mind while i try this stuff out. It is partially the reason why i have the bass setting a tad lower in the settings on the amp. While out in the open these settings sound really good and could theoretically use a bump in the bass department, I don't want to give in to my brain wanting me to fill the roll of the bass guitar with a tweak of a knob on the guitar amp. That is a mistake i made for years when i entered the world of recording track by track. this mic placement really captures a lot of what it sounds like for real in the room, turning that bass knob up to five or more really starts to round out the guitar tone and you start to hear that typical Orange flavor and *i think* it will add some mud that will compete with the bass and make it shitty. I think? :sherlock: Only one way to find out! :coolstorybro:

I have an idea of what i want in there, i just have to hammerout the bassline, make it real and capture it and see if it all works.

Thanks Gerk.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by SweetDan »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:33 pm Holy frig what a huge difference man!!! I love hearing those befores and afters. Solid purchase! ... Night and day difference SD. :like: :like: :like:
Thanks, man. I'm very happy with how this is turning out.

---

Just for fun, here's an idea/scratch track I did today w/the guitar parts done through that amp/speaker and after tweaking the cheesy preset sounds: http://eastofcleveland.com/m/howDoYouLi ... gTrack.mp3 . Please ignore the bad drumming...that's me. :oops:

Left-side guitar is tele, neck p/u, starting with the "UK '70s" preset but significantly tweaking the gain/eq settings. Right-side is a humbucker in a different guitar, bridge position, again with the "UK '70's" preset but again tweaked. (I wrote more detailed info in notes in the DAW, but that's not super-important here unless someone asks.) The speaker was mic'd up with an on-axis SM57 2" from the grille, to the inside of the cone/dustcap seam, and with a Blue Spark LDC on-axis 2" from the grille, 80% of the way out towards the edge of the speaker cone, then both mics were blended.

---

I went through all sorts of tweaking amp settings and mic positions with this amp and the old speaker, but now I'll probably have to do much of that again, given how much different (and better) the new speaker is. I'll get to "re-learn" all the things I thought I knew.
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JD01
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:09 pm Wife went spontaneously to an afternoon movie with a friend so i seized the moment.

This is as middle of the road between the other two i can get i think? I am finding if stray too far from this mic position things start to get either thinned out and fizzy, darker or flubbier? It still has a tiny bit of shrillness here and there but i can live with it. I am not entering this thing in a beauty pageant i suppose.

20180107-3

LP Jr bridge P90
AD30:
Mstr: 7
Treb: 6
Mid: 6
Bass: 4
Gain: 4.5

SM57 75% cone 25% cap, +/-2 inch off grill.

Oh forgot to add i gave the preamp a boost on the way into the DAW. It added a little tiny bit of something? not sure if it's great or not.
No comments from me, Shan - I think that sounds fucking excellent.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:09 pm Wife went spontaneously to an afternoon movie with a friend so i seized the moment.

This is as middle of the road between the other two i can get i think? I am finding if stray too far from this mic position things start to get either thinned out and fizzy, darker or flubbier? It still has a tiny bit of shrillness here and there but i can live with it. I am not entering this thing in a beauty pageant i suppose.

20180107-3

LP Jr bridge P90
AD30:
Mstr: 7
Treb: 6
Mid: 6
Bass: 4
Gain: 4.5

SM57 75% cone 25% cap, +/-2 inch off grill.

Oh forgot to add i gave the preamp a boost on the way into the DAW. It added a little tiny bit of something? not sure if it's great or not.
I think this sounds good Shan, seems you're getting pretty consistent with your tones, so I think you've found your personal "spot" where you can do this every time...Again, sounds good dude...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

SweetDan wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:19 am Just for fun, here's an idea/scratch track I did today w/the guitar parts done through that amp/speaker and after tweaking the cheesy preset sounds: http://eastofcleveland.com/m/howDoYouLi ... gTrack.mp3 . Please ignore the bad drumming...that's me. :oops:

Left-side guitar is tele, neck p/u, starting with the "UK '70s" preset but significantly tweaking the gain/eq settings. Right-side is a humbucker in a different guitar, bridge position, again with the "UK '70's" preset but again tweaked. (I wrote more detailed info in notes in the DAW, but that's not super-important here unless someone asks.) The speaker was mic'd up with an on-axis SM57 2" from the grille, to the inside of the cone/dustcap seam, and with a Blue Spark LDC on-axis 2" from the grille, 80% of the way out towards the edge of the speaker cone, then both mics were blended.

---

I went through all sorts of tweaking amp settings and mic positions with this amp and the old speaker, but now I'll probably have to do much of that again, given how much different (and better) the new speaker is. I'll get to "re-learn" all the things I thought I knew.
Guitars sound good dude, I don't hear anything that needs attention other than the drums... :biggrin:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

My amp was delivered today.
Plugged in, and tested.
AAAAAAmazing difference.
I can't crank it or record anything yet as the wife is asleep BUT the difference is incredible.
I can even hear the difference between the inputs now.
Superlead & PPIMV modification, pickup & delivery AUS$300.
Thanks to RockDog Amp repairs!
Thanks Greg for chipping away at my reluctance.
Cheers
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

rayc wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:09 pm My amp was delivered today.
Plugged in, and tested.
AAAAAAmazing difference.
I can't crank it or record anything yet as the wife is asleep BUT the difference is incredible.
I can even hear the difference between the inputs now.
Superlead & PPIMV modification, pickup & delivery AUS$300.
Thanks to RockDog Amp repairs!
Thanks Greg for chipping away at my reluctance.
Awesome Ray!!! Glad you like the end result dude, throw us some pics & clips when you can... :minernuggs:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by liv_rong »

A couple cuts from takes from my EP. Still tweaking these dirty sounds.

These are two tracks blended, no mixing or panning or anything. I think the LP track will work just fine. Both mics are 57's, one is between the center and edge on axis just barely off the grill. The other is near the edge off axis pointing towards the center, again barely off the grill.

The LP is bridge pickup, EP Booster and MKIV channel on my amp.

Tele is bridge pup, ep booster and Crunch channel.

The last is the drum tracks that go with it, just posted these for fun. Also raw tracks, just overheads panned. Really happy with how these turned out, I think after mixing will sound good.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Here's a quick and hopeless sound sample of the sound of my modded Marshall Superbass MkII. It was given a mod to convert it to Superlead specs and also a mod to add a PPIMV.
For the clip I used the left top input 1st with vol set at max and the MV 9 o'clock
I repeated that with the MV at Noon.
Everything else it set at noon
I blended a 57 about 15 cm back and a 609 up against the grill at almost at the right edge.
I'll need to rework the mic placement after some experimentation etc as this is now a different animal I did 1st use both against the grill but the result was VERY dark from the 57. On this recording there's about 15% more 609 than 57.
No tweaking just the raw recordings
Next I plugged into the top right input and repeated the same process as above.
I played a progression of power chords except for the very last part of the sample where I played some open chords.
mODDED mARSHALLb.mp3
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Last edited by rayc on Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

liv_rong wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:00 pm A couple cuts from takes from my EP. Still tweaking these dirty sounds.
Is it a metal track? Sounds it. Distorted guitars sound cool.
the chugga part sounds VERY LP.
The drums were interesting but no comment due to context.
Well done.
Cheers
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by SweetDan »

liv_rong wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:00 pm ...
These are two tracks blended, no mixing or panning or anything. I think the LP track will work just fine. Both mics are 57's, one is between the center and edge on axis just barely off the grill. The other is near the edge off axis pointing towards the center, again barely off the grill.
...
To my ears they sound a bit muffled and dark, but I don't know if it's the lack of highs or the the presence of too much bass signal, nor do I know how you intend to mix these -- will there be additional high-frequency content to balance it out? will you be rolling off some bass?

I think it might be the mics being so close that's adding too much bass, though. I wonder how they would sound if you left guitar/pedal/amp settings the same, but moved the mics away from the grill a bit, not a lot, 1-3 fingers, to kill a bit of proximity effect? May be tricky to balance, because the chugga parts of the tracks sound great as is...
awesome youtube comment of the day
Lol it's still less satanic than whatever rituals Katie Perry and Taylor Swift do in their performances. 😂
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