The Tone Thread

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
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JD01
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:49 am Thanks all. It was a fun day and after reviewing the tones after giving the ears a break i have no complaints other than the ibanezs bill lf health. I have a tune close to done but will retrack with the jcm and orange and ditch the sims. Stoked. Curious to hear the contrast of the orange and the jcm together.

Can't wait to hear miners jubilee. All kinds of new sounds crawling out of the woodwork. Hopefully JD procures some new noise making devices!!!
They sound good, Shan. The epiphone is probably my favourite - has all the clarity without being harsh, I found that the P90 was a little too harsh, good though. They both sounded excellent though.

Yeah, I currently have a shortlist of a MkII Blackstar HT50, a Jubilee, H&K TubeMeister and Victory V30. Now I've got a cab there are far more options with reasonably priced tube amps.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

WARNING: LONG-ASS POST!!! :biggrin:

First clip with the new toy...I'm impressed with this thing, it is different from other Marshall amps I've played through, but I think it's got sorta the same character the big amps have...It will take some time to learn what it's good at, & what it ain't, but that's part of the fun...

Something I noticed about the lead channel is it gets a little fizzy & loose sounding when the input gain is up pretty high...I might need to hit it with a clean boost to tighten it up a little...It's not bad, & I may be able to dial that out as I spend more time with it, but like a JCM800, a boost pedal should make a big difference...

Another thing, it's a low-mid heavy amp & can get really fat sounding, but it can also get woofy/boomy...Keeping the bass pretty low seems to help & again, the more I use it the more I'll learn about it...

I'm very surprised with the clean channel & the rhythm pull knob...The clean sounds great IMO (I wasn't trying to get a clean tone in these clips btw), & can go from clean to a light crunch with more gain...The rhythm clip gives a nice, crunchy sound too, pushing the master up to about 7-8 with the input gain low kinda has a Malcolm-ish sound to it...

It's a loud little motherfucker in either mode & as far as I can tell, the 5w mode sounds just like the 20w, it's just quieter...Volume-wise, this is damn near the perfect amp for what I need, especially using the ISO cab, which I fuckin' love, all the time & work I put into that thing paid off, I'm very happy with it...This amp sounds good through my EVH cab too...

The only thing different in all these clips is the first part's the 20w mode, & the 2nd is the 5w, exact same settings...

I did normalize these so they'd match in volume, but did nothing else to them at all...I didn't even open the ISO cab to look at the mic, it's in the same place I left it a couple days ago (I'm assuming, hell it might've fell out of the mic clip :biggrin: )...

Signal chain: SG> Mini Jubilee > G12-65 > i5
Clean Channel
Input gain: 3
Lead master: 8
Output master: 8
Treble: 5
Middle: 5
Bass: 3
Presence: 8


Signal chain: SG> Mini Jubilee > G12-65 > i5
Clean Channel w/Rhythm Clip On
Input gain: 3
Lead master: 8
Output master: 8
Treble: 5
Middle: 5
Bass: 3
Presence: 8


SG> Mini Jubilee > G12-65 > i5
Lead channel
Input gain: 8
Lead master: 8
Output master: 6
Treble: 4
Middle: 6
Bass: 2
Presence: 4


I'm gonna put the Mullard tubes in it tomorrow & might post some gut-shot pics

Sorry about the long post, but I'm pretty fired up tonight, & wanted to let you guys know what I think about the amp...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Yup, sounds like a Jubilee to me. They're definitely the weirdos of the Marshall family. It's got that thick mid grind in it. The mids and top end sound like they should IMO. The harshness in the top end is partially why I don't like Jubilees. But gain freaks and lead players love it. And they do cut. People always say how smooth they are, but I've never heard them that way. It's cool that yours sounds like it's supposed to. Your rhythm clip tone sounds pretty cool. They all sound good. Congrats!
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:00 am Yup, sounds like a Jubilee to me. They're definitely the weirdos of the Marshall family. It's got that thick mid grind in it. The mids and top end sound like they should IMO. The harshness in the top end is partially why I don't like Jubilees. But gain freaks and lead players love it. And they do cut. People always say how smooth they are, but I've never heard them that way. It's cool that yours sounds like it's supposed to. Your rhythm clip tone sounds pretty cool. They all sound good. Congrats!
Thanks man, so far I'm pretty happy with it, it's a totally different sound than I was expecting, but I like it a lot so far...

I did some A/B'ing using some of your JCM800 clips, & while it is a different animal, it does sound similar to your clips, so I've finally got an amp that does a close approximation of a JCM800 tone...It makes me wonder how the 2202 compares to this thing...I might not even need the 2202, but it'll be a while before I can even think about buying another amp...I thought I might be able to swing them both, but I'll have to save up for a while again...

I concur it can be pretty harsh in the highs, but damn this little thing gets thick sounding...The output master really opens up at about 7, that's where it starts delivering the goods...When you get the mid knob to about 7 or so, it changes drastically from there to 10...The rest of the tonestack knobs seem to do this too somewhat, but the mids really stand out...

The clean/rhythm clip channel really surprised me...Of course, the lead channel is what most guys like me would use most of the time, but it's got a good clean & some really nice sounding crunch tones too...The clean/rhythm clip channel was a complete surprise man, I really like it so far...


I've got a lot of learning to do with this thing, but that's part of the fun...

Just wondering, I know I could use a stereo pedal to run both amps at once, & there are A/B/Y things out there, but would using a Y cable work for that, or would I lose too much signal???
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:34 am Thanks man, so far I'm pretty happy with it, it's a totally different sound than I was expecting, but I like it a lot so far...

I did some A/B'ing using some of your JCM800 clips, & while it is a different animal, it does sound similar to your clips, so I've finally got an amp that does a close approximation of a JCM800 tone...It makes me wonder how the 2202 compares to this thing...I might not even need the 2202, but it'll be a while before I can even think about buying another amp...I thought I might be able to swing them both, but I'll have to save up for a while again...
The best comparison I can make between the two amps is a Jubilee pretty much sounds like an 800 with an overdrive pedal out front and the mids cranked. The 800 is more open and less gainy, but it has a tight punch in the face that a Jubilee doesn't. The Jubilee is more refined, more gain, more compressed. There's a reason lead players love the Jubilee.
I concur it can be pretty harsh in the highs, but damn this little thing gets thick sounding...The output master really opens up at about 7, that's where it starts delivering the goods...When you get the mid knob to about 7 or so, it changes drastically from there to 10...The rest of the tonestack knobs seem to do this too somewhat, but the mids really stand out...
The mids are insane on the Jubilee. That amp might as well only have a mid knob because it does pretty much all of the work in the tone stack. On the Jubilees I've used, you could put the bass and treble anywhere. All that mattered was where you put the mid setting. The big Jubilees also come alive around 6 or 7 on the output master. If you use the lead channel, just crank the lead master and use the output master as your overall volume.
The clean/rhythm clip channel really surprised me...Of course, the lead channel is what most guys like me would use most of the time, but it's got a good clean & some really nice sounding crunch tones too...The clean/rhythm clip channel was a complete surprise man, I really like it so far...
The Jubilee probably has the best clean sound of any Marshall. The rhythm clip adds just a hint of hair to it.

Just wondering, I know I could use a stereo pedal to run both amps at once, & there are A/B/Y things out there, but would using a Y cable work for that, or would I lose too much signal???
You could use a Y-cable. A passive A/B/Y does the same thing.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:49 am The best comparison I can make between the two amps is a Jubilee pretty much sounds like an 800 with an overdrive pedal out front and the mids cranked. The 800 is more open and less gainy, but it has a tight punch in the face that a Jubilee doesn't. The Jubilee is more refined, more gain, more compressed. There's a reason lead players love the Jubilee.
I get it now man & I can understand why you don't like 'em, most of the other Marshall amps simply your music & playing style better...

I know it's just a baby Marshall, but this amp is a big deal for me, I took a chance on it & was hoping not to regret getting this instead of the 2202...I thought I might swing 'em both, but I like to eat & gotta have my Dew...Buying either was a roll of the dice that might not have came out well...Getting to try this thing out pretty much sold me on it, but after having it here, I'm really glad I got this thing so far...

Greg_L wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:49 amThe mids are insane on the Jubilee. That amp might as well only have a mid knob because it does pretty much all of the work in the tone stack. On the Jubilees I've used, you could put the bass and treble anywhere. All that mattered was where you put the mid setting. The big Jubilees also come alive around 6 or 7 on the output master. If you use the lead channel, just crank the lead master and use the output master as your overall volume.
That's wild this baby amp sounds & acts like it's daddy, especially the thing about the master...IMO if Marshall did their other amps in a smaller, low-watt package like this, they'd sell a lot of 'em, but that's probably not gonna happen...
Greg_L wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:49 amThe Jubilee probably has the best clean sound of any Marshall. The rhythm clip adds just a hint of hair to it.
I really like the rhythm clip mode dude, with the master up pretty high & the gain knob kinda low, it sounds kinda vintage-y to me...The crunch tones really surprised me...

Greg_L wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:49 amYou could use a Y-cable. A passive A/B/Y does the same thing.
Cool man, I might record some clips using both amps at the same time :smiles: tomorrow...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:16 am
I get it now man & I can understand why you don't like 'em, most of the other Marshall amps simply your music & playing style better...
That's really all it is for me. It's not that I don't like Jubilees. I have two Jubilees around my life, and both guys that use them kill on them. They just don't suit me personally for what I do.
That's wild this baby amp sounds & acts like it's daddy, especially the thing about the master...IMO if Marshall did their other amps in a smaller, low-watt package like this, they'd sell a lot of 'em, but that's probably not gonna happen...
Maybe. The simple reality is that even a 20 watt amp is too loud for bedroom/apartment players.
Cool man, I might record some clips using both amps at the same time :smiles: tomorrow...
Do it. :coolstorybro:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Sounds great, Miner. Looking forward to going back to the shop to try this again in the new year but with cash in my pocket which I might end up spending.

I really like the clean and rhythm clip clips. The lead channel was a bit too much for me!
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

JD01 wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:47 am Sounds great, Miner. Looking forward to going back to the shop to try this again in the new year but with cash in my pocket which I might end up spending.

I really like the clean and rhythm clip clips. The lead channel was a bit too much for me!
Thanks Jdude, I'm impressed with it so far, & even more so after messing with it about all day...

The lead channel is a bit strange to me, after you get up past about 7-8 on the input gain, it gets pretty wooly sounding, almost like a fuzz kinda sound...

It seems to take pedals pretty good, although I only have 3 (Boss SD-1, Cry Baby wah & Danelectro vibe)...Using the SD-1 as a clean boost tightens it up a bit, & sounds a lot like the 80's tones that I like so much...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Cool tones MM.
You'll be able to make it "yours" with ease.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Armistice »

Finally got around to recording a bit of tone with the new Tele - using a Blues Jnr patch on the Kemper.

Tele Tones 1

Sort of Afghan Whigsish, I reckon... :guitarhero:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Armistice wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:13 pm Finally got around to recording a bit of tone with the new Tele - using a Blues Jnr patch on the Kemper.

Tele Tones 1

Sort of Afghan Whigsish, I reckon... :guitarhero:
Sounds cool - the amp version certainly removes any twang.
yes, there's some Kabul Rug or Kandaha Tories in there.
That's is a sound that will work in a lot of places and mixes.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Armistice wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:13 pm Finally got around to recording a bit of tone with the new Tele - using a Blues Jnr patch on the Kemper.

Tele Tones 1

Sort of Afghan Whigsish, I reckon... :guitarhero:
I'm not crazy about the reverb, but it sounds good. Nice clarity without the spikiness.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Armistice »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:30 am
Armistice wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:13 pm Finally got around to recording a bit of tone with the new Tele - using a Blues Jnr patch on the Kemper.

Tele Tones 1

Sort of Afghan Whigsish, I reckon... :guitarhero:
I'm not crazy about the reverb, but it sounds good. Nice clarity without the spikiness.
Yeah it was just on with the patch. I normally turn it off but I forgot. The reverb these guys that make these profiles add is almost always too OTT for actual recording.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Armistice wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:54 am Yeah it was just on with the patch. I normally turn it off but I forgot. The reverb these guys that make these profiles add is almost always too OTT for actual recording.
I've become totally convinced that "patchmakers" and youtube video demo-ers neither record or play live because everything they do is drowning in delay and reverb.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Armistice wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:13 pm Finally got around to recording a bit of tone with the new Tele - using a Blues Jnr patch on the Kemper.

Tele Tones 1

Sort of Afghan Whigsish, I reckon... :guitarhero:
That sounds pretty good Armi, not a big fan of amp reverb myself, but still sounds pretty good...

I've always thought the Kemper is the top of the heap for modelers, to me, most of the tones I've heard from that sound better than the Fractal...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Armistice »

Minerman wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:07 pm
Armistice wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:13 pm Finally got around to recording a bit of tone with the new Tele - using a Blues Jnr patch on the Kemper.

Tele Tones 1

Sort of Afghan Whigsish, I reckon... :guitarhero:
That sounds pretty good Armi, not a big fan of amp reverb myself, but still sounds pretty good...

I've always thought the Kemper is the top of the heap for modelers, to me, most of the tones I've heard from that sound better than the Fractal...
That would be the difference between profile and modelling. With modelling someone's trying to emulate the sound of a particular amp - I believe the Fractal can profile but it's also a modeller. The Kemper is just a profiler - so someone who absolutely knew what they're doing set up an actual Blues Jnr then set up some microphones in the appropriate spots with reference to the speaker and fed it all into and out of the Kemper which makes a profile by sending a bunch of noise into the amp, and recording (via the microphone/s) the output and then digitising it so you can manipulate the parameters. That's not a world away from what we do when we're recording - we just put a guitar in the chain.

And while there's a gain knob on the profiler, the smart profilers (this one's from The Amp Factory, a UK mob who sell them - it's a freebie that comes with the box) make multiple profiles at different levels of gain so you start with something that's about where you want it and just adjust gain a little bit, rather than trying to get crunch from a clean profile or clean from a high gain profile. They are very smart, those Germans. :nyuk:

I didn't write it down but I think I left the gain where it was and just did some basic EQing to get the spank out of the guitar.
Greg_L wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:58 am
Armistice wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:54 am Yeah it was just on with the patch. I normally turn it off but I forgot. The reverb these guys that make these profiles add is almost always too OTT for actual recording.
I've become totally convinced that "patchmakers" and youtube video demo-ers neither record or play live because everything they do is drowning in delay and reverb.
Yeah - the thing is, no-one in their right mind would create a profile of an amp with the amp reverb on - they're all added later via the in-box effects that it has. This would sound OK in a sparse mix with just a bass and drums - recorded - but you wouldn't use it live unless it was a particularly dead room. I think they add reverb because things sound better with reverb when you're auditioning profiles without anything else. You should hear some of them! Way over the top and they sound "interesting" but they're not really actually usable in a recording sense. There's a guy who's done a huge range of Fender and other amps with minute variations in gain / mic positions, and without exception they're drowning in reverb - but take that off and they're stellar profiles.

To me, the point of the box is not to have a zillion profiles you can access at any time - it just gets too hard and too time consuming - and a lot of them will have a set up that perhaps worked just fine for whichever guitar the profiler was intending to use, but which doesn't quite cut it with what I have - it's to have 6 to a dozen which are your "go tos" all the time that you know work well, and to be able to record decent sounds in an apartment. When I eventually move to a house again I'll get amps happening as I do miss the volume and interaction, but for now it's a means to an end - and when amps do come back into play, I'll know what to get, and what will work for the sounds I create from the profiler.

Anyway, I like that riff enough I might work with it and turn it into a tune. :jam:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Armistice wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:07 pm That would be the difference between profile and modelling. With modelling someone's trying to emulate the sound of a particular amp - I believe the Fractal can profile but it's also a modeller. The Kemper is just a profiler - so someone who absolutely knew what they're doing set up an actual Blues Jnr then set up some microphones in the appropriate spots with reference to the speaker and fed it all into and out of the Kemper which makes a profile by sending a bunch of noise into the amp, and recording (via the microphone/s) the output and then digitising it so you can manipulate the parameters. That's not a world away from what we do when we're recording - we just put a guitar in the chain.

And while there's a gain knob on the profiler, the smart profilers (this one's from The Amp Factory, a UK mob who sell them - it's a freebie that comes with the box) make multiple profiles at different levels of gain so you start with something that's about where you want it and just adjust gain a little bit, rather than trying to get crunch from a clean profile or clean from a high gain profile. They are very smart, those Germans. :nyuk:
Never thought about it like that dude, but that makes sense to me now...The Kemper always sounded a little more organic or real to me in clips compared with the Fractal, so I guess that may be why...

While I do love using real amps, the simplicity, ease & convenience of going digital is a no-brainer man, I think you made a wise choice buying the Kemper, Armi...The price is a bit steep, but the tone possibilities are actually endless...

Cool stuff dude...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

I do think the Kemper is by far the best of the not-a-real-amp amps. If I had to go that route, the Kemper would be the only thing on my list.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for my PPIMVSUPERLEAD modded Superbass.
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