The Tone Thread

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
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Minerman
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:15 pm
Minerman wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:49 pm That sucks about the amp having issues, but it will give us some insight if you figure out the problem & fix it...
I'm not 100% sure there even is an issue. I played it a bunch this afternoon with no problems.

I'm wondering if the combination of thunderstorm and dirty power in an overloaded garage made the amp pop the fuse and make weird noises. :confused:

Also, this big Jubilee does get weird when you pull the rhythm clip on the lead channel. It drops a little volume and thins out. Not a good sound. The lead channel is good on it's own, and the rhythm clip apparently needs to just stay with the clean channel.
That might be a good thing if it was just the weather & power causing the issues...

The way you describe the volume drop/thin thing sounds exactly what I was talking about with my amp...If I didn't pay attention, I might not have even noticed it, but there's definitely something going on with the rhythm clip knob...I wouldn't say it sounded bad, but I will say it sounds better on the lead channel with the rhythm clip turned off...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Well look at this.
20180128_184212 - Copy.jpg
That's a blowed up capacitor. I don't know what it is because this modern Jubilee amp is fucking untraceable inside, but it's gonna need to be changed.
20180128_200943 - Copy.jpg
This is the guts of the Jubilee reissue. It doesn't even look like a fucking amp. It's a goddamn computer with tubes. :facepalm:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Lt. Bob »

that's kinda how my Marshall 6101 POS is although it's even more HAL inspired than that.

Mine has multiple stacked PCBs and a HUGE chip in the center of everything.

It's a total POS and I'm tired of fixing it .... just a PIA to take apart.

I'm not gonna sell it because it WILL quickly breakdown on whoever gets it and I don't want to have to deal with the bullshit that would follow. Regardless of how thoroughly I explain to them that it's gonna break down you just know you're gonna hear a buncha shit about it ..... so I'm stuck with it.

I'm considering yanking the guts out and sticking some other kinda amp in there or cutting it down to just a 12" speaker cab.

Apparently they've got that PCB thing figured out because I don't hear stuff about newer Marshall's breaking down.

But mine was the blue tolex so it was made in that first run and I've had a lot of amps and this thing is the biggest, most unreliable, WILL breakdown in the middle of a gig POS I ever have even heard of.
Just terrible .....

lol ........ I was so excited to get it too!

:facepalm:

:lollers: :lollers:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:36 am that's kinda how my Marshall 6101 POS is although it's even more HAL inspired than that.

Mine has multiple stacked PCBs and a HUGE chip in the center of everything.

It's a total POS and I'm tired of fixing it .... just a PIA to take apart.

I'm not gonna sell it because it WILL quickly breakdown on whoever gets it and I don't want to have to deal with the bullshit that would follow. Regardless of how thoroughly I explain to them that it's gonna break down you just know you're gonna hear a buncha shit about it ..... so I'm stuck with it.

I'm considering yanking the guts out and sticking some other kinda amp in there or cutting it down to just a 12" speaker cab.

Apparently they've got that PCB thing figured out because I don't hear stuff about newer Marshall's breaking down.

But mine was the blue tolex so it was made in that first run and I've had a lot of amps and this thing is the biggest, most unreliable, WILL breakdown in the middle of a gig POS I ever have even heard of.
Just terrible .....

lol ........ I was so excited to get it too!

:facepalm:

:lollers: :lollers:
Lol. You still have that thing? You need to sell it. Fuck em. There is a weird cult of Marshall fanboys that love those amps. I haven't seen many, but the ones I have seen have all had broken push-buttons or wobbly pots. :facepalm:

They sound pretty decent though when they work.

I'm pretty disappointed with the guts of this Jubilee. I wasn't expecting this kind of IBM PC construction in a classic reissue. I'm fine with the normal green PCBs where you can still see the traces and plot things out, but this is just wtf. I have no idea what any of this stuff is or does. It's all painted black! I have no idea what that blown cap does and I can't find a schematic anywhere. It's a 10uf 160V. I'm guessing it's something with the filaments or bias supply. Fuck if I know. All I know is that it's clearly blown and I'm gonna swap it out. On the plus side, this thing looks like it comes apart pretty easily. All of the wiring is spade connectors or those molex connectors. It looks like I can probably remove the entire board without even heating up a soldering iron. I'm gonna have to take a thousand pics and label these wires. :cuckoo:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Lt. Bob »

Greg_L wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:56 am

I'm pretty disappointed with the guts of this Jubilee. I wasn't expecting this kind of IBM PC construction in a classic reissue. I'm fine with the normal green PCBs where you can still see the traces and plot things out, but this is just wtf. I have no idea what any of this stuff is or does. It's all painted black! I have no idea what that blown cap does and I can't find a schematic anywhere. It's a 10uf 160V. I'm guessing it's something with the filaments or bias supply. Fuck if I know. All I know is that it's clearly blown and I'm gonna swap it out. On the plus side, this thing looks like it comes apart pretty easily. All of the wiring is spade connectors or those molex connectors. It looks like I can probably remove the entire board without even heating up a soldering iron. I'm gonna have to take a thousand pics and label these wires. :cuckoo:
yeah .... where are those things made?
They have to lay out circuits for mass production purposes.

What a LOT of modern mass produced amps do is replicate the old circuitry but using a newly designed version .... Fenders have been like that for a while.
The amps sound pretty much the same because the function of everything in the circuitry IS replicated but the actual circuitry that's doing it is layed out completely differently and even the components might be changed.

It's so stupid now ..... get this, true current on-going story.

I needed a powered PA speaker so I bought a Fender Fighter 12" powered for a New Years eve gig.
Pretty decent unit actually for around 300 bucks.

The third gig I did the screws that held on the plastic polemount fitting popped thru the plastic and it was wobbling all over the place.
So since it's new I didn't want to open it up and run some good bolts in because it might void the warranty so I took it to the Gold Rated Fender tech Fender themselves said to take it to.
He calls me the next day and says they have to replace the entire unit!
There ARE no replacement parts for it at all and the same is true of anything else they sell that's around $300 or less.
It's cheaper for them to simply give me a new unit because they prolly only cost Fender 30-40 bucks to make and not having a parts inventory saves a ton of money!
That's fucking crazy!

They didn't even give me the option of just fixing it myself ..... he even told me he couldn't give me back my unit!
He's lucky I'm old and don't give a shit or I'd be down there with the cops making sure he knew he damned well could give me my unit back.

So because of a plastic part that a couple of washers would fix, they destroy the old one and give me a new one ..... stupid.

I'm gonna by an aluminum mount and keep it handy 'cause it will do it again.

So the more these things are stamped out by the giant amp-stamping machine in China, the more that under-the-hood they will all look like computers that've been made to the specs of whomever.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:25 am
yeah .... where are those things made?
Jolly ol England. This is not one of the cheaper Vietnam made Marshalls. This is a legit Brit-made Marshall....built like a computer. :facepalm:
They have to lay out circuits for mass production purposes.

What a LOT of modern mass produced amps do is replicate the old circuitry but using a newly designed version .... Fenders have been like that for a while.
The amps sound pretty much the same because the function of everything in the circuitry IS replicated but the actual circuitry that's doing it is layed out completely differently and even the components might be changed.
I get all that. A lot of it is new electrical manufacturing standards that they have to comply with. But I look inside a JCM 800 reissue and it's pretty much exactly like the originals. The board is the same, the components are the same. The layout is exactly the same. I can print off a schematic for a 1981 2203 and it will still correlate to a 2018 reissue. I've been reverse-engineering my 50w Plexi reissue. It's exactly as the 1970 schematic says it should be. Every component is what it should be and it's laid out on the board from preamp, to tone stack, to phase inverter, to bias supply, to power section, just like it should be. It's dead-nuts exact. The 800 and various Plexi reissues have actual wires and tube sockets and pots and things that you'd expect to see inside a tube amp. This Jubilee resissue...I don't even know wtf is going on in there. Original Jubilees are not like this at all. Not even a little. They look like regular amps inside. This thing has no rhyme or reason. It seems very random. I can't trace the signal flow out at all.
It's so stupid now ..... get this, true current on-going story.

I needed a powered PA speaker so I bought a Fender Fighter 12" powered for a New Years eve gig.
Pretty decent unit actually for around 300 bucks.

The third gig I did the screws that held on the plastic polemount fitting popped thru the plastic and it was wobbling all over the place.
So since it's new I didn't want to open it up and run some good bolts in because it might void the warranty so I took it to the Gold Rated Fender tech Fender themselves said to take it to.
He calls me the next day and says they have to replace the entire unit!
There ARE no replacement parts for it at all and the same is true of anything else they sell that's around $300 or less.
It's cheaper for them to simply give me a new unit because they prolly only cost Fender 30-40 bucks to make and not having a parts inventory saves a ton of money!
That's fucking crazy!

They didn't even give me the option of just fixing it myself ..... he even told me he couldn't give me back my unit!
He's lucky I'm old and don't give a shit or I'd be down there with the cops making sure he knew he damned well could give me my unit back.

So because of a plastic part that a couple of washers would fix, they destroy the old one and give me a new one ..... stupid.

I'm gonna by an aluminum mount and keep it handy 'cause it will do it again.
Wow, that's fucked up. It's really weird that they'd confiscate it. Lol. It's just a speaker, not a plutonium warhead.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Lt. Bob »

Greg_L wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:43 am
Wow, that's fucked up. It's really weird that they'd confiscate it. Lol. It's just a speaker, not a plutonium warhead.
I guarantee that if I wasn't so busy I'd disabuse him of that notion.

No freakin' way a warranty gives them any legal rights over my piece of property.
ALL it gives them is the right to void my warranty if I don't want to follow their procedures.

lol ..... a little of the old me is still there though ..... I came within an inch of calling the police and reporting it stolen!
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Lt. Bob wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:51 am
I guarantee that if I wasn't so busy I'd disabuse him of that notion.

No freakin' way a warranty gives them any legal rights over my piece of property.
ALL it gives them is the right to void my warranty if I don't want to follow their procedures.

lol ..... a little of the old me is still there though ..... I came within an inch of calling the police and reporting it stolen!
Lol. When I was working on cars, there used to be an obscure bit of municipal legislation that stated that if we, the shop, deemed a customer's car unsafe, and they refused to make the minimum repairs to get the car safe, we could "quarantine" the car until it was made safe to drive. Now we absolutely never enacted this law, and I've never heard of anyone that has, but supposedly we could if we needed to. That's an actual public safety issue. Yours is a fucking speaker. :lollers2:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

I thought that was an original Jubilee & I thought the original Jubilee's had those black boards in 'em for some reason...FWIW, my mini looks just like that, black pcb & all:


Whenever you get it fixed, be sure to let us know what all was involved...

Bob: I've thought about asking if you would sell the 6100 man, once it got here it wouldn't be moved much...But, if you're that convinced it'd take another crap, I dunno...Just curious, what would you want for that thing???
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

AND AGAIN,
Here's a sample of my modded amp.
I popped the cab up on a crate.
57 at edge of dust cap & coil but about 10" away (in phase) with 609 placed as if it was beside the 57.
I recorded a simple chord progression, (3 or 4 chords in F shape) into a looper.
I did tune the guitar thrice prior to doing the loop.
Presence - 5
Bass - 5
Mids - 6
Treble - 5.5
MV - 2
Input I Vol 2 then 5 then 8 then max
Input II Vol 2 then 5 then 8 then max
then
MV5
Input I Vol 2 then 5 then 8 then max
Input II Vol 2 then 5 then 8 then max
Modded Marshall V7.mp3
I've not yet contacted the tech with the question as it was a long weekend Downunder
I'll ask later this week after I've confirmed he's at work.
I'll also have to read about/experiment regarding MV versus V I suppose.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

The lower volume ones on that sound good to me but as you get higher in volume you start to get really boomy.

Have you got a really high pickup or something like that?
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:35 am I thought that was an original Jubilee & I thought the original Jubilee's had those black boards in 'em for some reason...FWIW, my mini looks just like that, black pcb & all:


Whenever you get it fixed, be sure to let us know what all was involved...
No I don't have access to that original Jubilee anymore. The guy sold it. Actually, he had two of them and sold both of them. This is a different guy and a reissue. But I know for an indisputable fact that the original Jubilees are not blacked out and computerized like the new ones. And frankly, I think this reissue sounds better than those originals did - when it works. :cuckoo:

This is the inside of the original Jubilees:
Image

Pretty standard normal stuff.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:04 am AND AGAIN,
Here's a sample of my modded amp.
I popped the cab up on a crate.
57 at edge of dust cap & coil but about 10" away (in phase) with 609 placed as if it was beside the 57.
I recorded a simple chord progression, (3 or 4 chords in F shape) into a looper.
I did tune the guitar thrice prior to doing the loop.
Presence - 5
Bass - 5
Mids - 6
Treble - 5.5
MV - 2
Input I Vol 2 then 5 then 8 then max
Input II Vol 2 then 5 then 8 then max
then
MV5
Input I Vol 2 then 5 then 8 then max
Input II Vol 2 then 5 then 8 then max
Modded Marshall V7.mp3
I've not yet contacted the tech with the question as it was a long weekend Downunder
I'll ask later this week after I've confirmed he's at work.
I'll also have to read about/experiment regarding MV versus V I suppose.
I think it sounds pretty good. The boom JD mentioned is probably just the distance of the mics from the cabs. 10" is enough to get room reflections in there.

Your channel 1 is definitely not getting dirty enough. I hate being the bearer of bad news but your tech did not do a complete job on that conversion. Ch 1 on 10 should be like Jimi Hendrix sounding meltdown.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Ray: I think you're finding your zone dude, I hear improvement with each clip you post, just keep at it... :minernuggs:
BTW, I've been meaning to ask what speaker/cab are you using with the big Marshall???

Greg_L wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:37 am No I don't have access to that original Jubilee anymore. The guy sold it. Actually, he had two of them and sold both of them. This is a different guy and a reissue. But I know for an indisputable fact that the original Jubilees are not blacked out and computerized like the new ones. And frankly, I think this reissue sounds better than those originals did - when it works. :cuckoo:
Ok, I get my wires crossed pretty easy on shit like that...Not hard for me to do btw... :biggrin:

I like my mini Jubilee more every time I play through it, it's a great little amp to me...I'm still fucking with the comparison clips, I've got about 10 or so of your clips & I've been using an eq spectrum plugin comparing my amp with your clips...It probably won't help make my little amp sound any closer to an 800, but I like doing shit like that...I've did the same thing with ampsims & it helped me to get a handle on where I was off or missing something, so it's a way to learn, & again, I like doing shit like that too...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

If there was a way to decompress the Jubilee, it could sound a lot like the 800. All those clippers literally clip the signal.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:58 pm If there was a way to decompress the Jubilee, it could sound a lot like the 800. All those clippers literally clip the signal.
I agree man, the bottom is fatter sounding too...This may sound crazy, but it sounds more 800-ish on the clean channel with the clip engaged, using the SD-1 as a clean boost, with the master up & the gain kinda low, around 4-5, then start with the bass knob on about 5 or so...

It's got a lot of low end & the SD-1 thins it out a bit...Getting the master volume up helps too...Like everything else, I stumbled onto this a few days ago...When I switched from the Ibby to the SG making the last clip I posted it caught my attention...Not sure how to describe it, but the Ibanez was kinda "buzzy" sounding...Not fizzy or like a jar of bees, it's hard to describe...The SG/LP are obviously not as hot, but that Duncan p'up is just very different IMO...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Here ya go miner, compare this to your Jube rhythm clip. I think this is a pretty good representation of my 2203 not set to total meltdown. I like this sound and it's one I use with the amp all the time.

Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge pickup
JCM 800 2203
Presence - 4
Bass - 5.5
Mid - 7
Treb - 7
Master vol - 4.5
Preamp vol - 5.5
Marshall 1960B 4x12 Celestion Vintage 30
Senn MD421 on axis, on grill, dustcap/cone - Shure SM57 off axis, on grill, middle cone
Equal blend 50/50
No FX or EQ
LP800V30.mp3
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Lt. Bob »

Minerman wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:35 am
Bob: I've thought about asking if you would sell the 6100 man, once it got here it wouldn't be moved much...But, if you're that convinced it'd take another crap, I dunno...Just curious, what would you want for that thing???
I'd absolutely sell it .... I dunno ..... 400 bucks matbe.

Problem is that the connectors lose connection.
Fixing it is mearly a matter of taking it apart and unplugging and reconnecting all the many connectors throughout the amp.
It works fine after that.
In any other amp it's be a piece of cake but this one's a pain.
I may see about replacing all the connectors with actual hand soldered wires ..... then it'd be fixed ..... then I might not sell it.

But I can't imagine it gets thru shipping and still works.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Lt. Bob wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:37 am
I'd absolutely sell it .... I dunno ..... 400 bucks matbe.

Problem is that the connectors lose connection.
Fixing it is mearly a matter of taking it apart and unplugging and reconnecting all the many connectors throughout the amp.
It works fine after that.
In any other amp it's be a piece of cake but this one's a pain.
I may see about replacing all the connectors with actual hand soldered wires ..... then it'd be fixed ..... then I might not sell it.

But I can't imagine it gets thru shipping and still works.
This would probably be a full day's pain in the ass, but you could go through and tighten up all the sockets in all those connectors. :eek:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Lt. Bob wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:37 am I'd absolutely sell it .... I dunno ..... 400 bucks matbe.

Problem is that the connectors lose connection.
Fixing it is mearly a matter of taking it apart and unplugging and reconnecting all the many connectors throughout the amp.
It works fine after that.
In any other amp it's be a piece of cake but this one's a pain.
I may see about replacing all the connectors with actual hand soldered wires ..... then it'd be fixed ..... then I might not sell it.

But I can't imagine it gets thru shipping and still works.
Ok man...You all know I'm a big Marshall fanboy, & I'm always interested in one of their amps so lemme ponder on it for a little while, & maybe we can work it out dude...

The banging around being shipped was a concern before you mentioned it, so again, lemme ponder on it...

By all means if someone throws the cash your way don't wait on me Bob, but again, maybe we can work it out...

Greg_L wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:39 amThis would probably be a full day's pain in the ass, but you could go through and tighten up all the sockets in all those connectors. :eek:
After he told me basically what the prognosis is that thought crossed my mind too...I could probably handle that as long as I took my time with everything, & like I mentioned, once it got here, it wouldn't be moved around very little, if much at all...
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