The Tone Thread

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
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Minerman
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

BTW, the volume/bass drop thing we've been talking about in the Jubilee amps, I gotta hand it to Amplitube on their modeling...Just fucking around, I loaded that ampsim up, & it does the same thing my real amp does...It's a bit more subtle, but it's there... :lollers:
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rayc
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Greg_L wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:07 pm JCM 800 2203
Presence - 4
Bass - 5.5
Mid - 7
Treb - 7
Master vol - 4.5
Preamp vol - 5.5
Marshall 1960B 4x12 Celestion Vintage 30
Senn MD421 on axis, on grill, dustcap/cone - Shure SM57 off axis, on grill, middle cone
Greg,
That rocks - there's a LOT of tone in your fingers though.
I'll replicate the settings and sub my 609 for the 421.
I'm experimenting with settings so this will be an interesting starting point.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:59 am
Greg,
That rocks - there's a LOT of tone in your fingers though.
I'll replicate the settings and sub my 609 for the 421.
I'm experimenting with settings so this will be an interesting starting point.
Thanks Ray. Keep in mind...this is a JCM 800. With all things being the same, the 800 has more gain than a Super Lead. But yeah give it a try.

I'm gonna do some Plexi clips tomorrow with your settings so you can see how they compare.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Greg,
I'm looking starting points for settings - MV:V as well as the tone group.
I ought to experiment and decide what my ears tell me is good but you know, as well as I do, that my ears aren't critical enough.
I look forward to a Plexi sample for comparison and any reccos that come with it.
Cheers
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:49 am Greg,
I'm looking starting points for settings - MV:V as well as the tone group.
I ought to experiment and decide what my ears tell me is good but you know, as well as I do, that my ears aren't critical enough.
I look forward to a Plexi sample for comparison and any reccos that come with it.
I can tell you this about the Plexi tone stack - it usually sounds good no matter what you do with it. I'm not sure why that is. Some amps have a tiny little range of usable EQ settings and that's about all it can do. Plexi type amps are different. You can turn those knobs any which way and extreme things will happen, but it's never extreme in a really bad way. The EQ controls are very interactive with each other. You can kind of approximate a Fender Bassman with a Plexi by diming the bass and treble and put the mids on 0. On most amps that would sound like hammered dogshit, but on a Plexi it's pretty bad ass.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Greg_L wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:36 am I can tell you this about the Plexi tone stack - it usually sounds good no matter what you do with it. I'm not sure why that is. Some amps have a tiny little range of usable EQ settings and that's about all it can do. Plexi type amps are different. You can turn those knobs any which way and extreme things will happen, but it's never extreme in a really bad way. The EQ controls are very interactive with each other. You can kind of approximate a Fender Bassman with a Plexi by diming the bass and treble and put the mids on 0. On most amps that would sound like hammered dogshit, but on a Plexi it's pretty bad ass.
Greg,
Johan's latest makes your point pretty well...
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoD7xtFEKTY[/BBvideo]
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Not listened to that yet. I'm assuming it's Johan sounding like Johan regardless of what he plays. He would make my old Peavey sound like a Plexi
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:49 am Greg,
I'm looking starting points for settings - MV:V as well as the tone group.
I ought to experiment and decide what my ears tell me is good but you know, as well as I do, that my ears aren't critical enough.
I look forward to a Plexi sample for comparison and any reccos that come with it.
Here ya go Ray. These are kind of long, but they show how my Plexis behave with a humbucker/Les Paul.

Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge
Marshall Plexi 1959
All tone controls - 5
PPIMV - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12H30
Senn e609 on axis, on grill, dustcap/cone seam - Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, halfway across cone
All tracks 50/50 blend
No EQ or FX

This is the "bright channel", Channel 1, high input 1 only. Channel vol on 2, then 5, then cranked.
LP1959G12H30CH1.mp3
This is the "normal channel", Channel 2, high input 2 only. Channel vol on 2, then 5, then cranked.
LP1959G12H30CH2.mp3
See what you think.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:22 pm
Greg,
Johan's latest makes your point pretty well...
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoD7xtFEKTY[/BBvideo]
Yup, that's about right.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Greg_L wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:51 pm Here ya go Ray. These are kind of long, but they show how my Plexis behave with a humbucker/Les Paul.
Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge
Marshall Plexi 1959
All tone controls - 5
PPIMV - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12H30
Senn e609 on axis, on grill, dustcap/cone seam - Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, halfway across cone
All tracks 50/50 blend
No EQ or FX
See what you think.
Yep, mine doesn't approach the I/Bright on yours. I have all the brightness but no power.
You mentioned in an earlier post that the Superbass was neutered - I think you may be right.
Someone must've modded it at some stage or the factory were running short of some components and made do with what was around - the latter, I've read, isn't unlikely and given it was for bass bo one woul've noticed until a guitar came into the picture.
I've one more experiment to do before contacting the tech, (he's back ay work now), which is to use the bottom inputs as I didn't try them and they may reveal some otehr oddity. When I've done that I've contact the tech. I've written the text but wanted to have covered all bases.
The sounds clips are great by the way and that amp combine with the LP is a marriage made in rock heaven - the song selection also points to a time when that combination were IT.
THANKS very much.
Cheers
rayc
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:46 pm
Yep, mine doesn't approach the I/Bright on yours. I have all the brightness but no power.
You mentioned in an earlier post that the Superbass was neutered - I think you may be right.
Someone must've modded it at some stage or the factory were running short of some components and made do with what was around - the latter, I've read, isn't unlikely and given it was for bass bo one woul've noticed until a guitar came into the picture.
I've one more experiment to do before contacting the tech, (he's back ay work now), which is to use the bottom inputs as I didn't try them and they may reveal some otehr oddity. When I've done that I've contact the tech. I've written the text but wanted to have covered all bases.
The sounds clips are great by the way and that amp combine with the LP is a marriage made in rock heaven - the song selection also points to a time when that combination were IT.
THANKS very much.
No prob. If you need help explaining details to your tech, just let me know. Maybe we can draft something up to make it perfectly clear what needs to be done. Your amp does not sound bad, it's just not getting the chewy grind that a Super Lead should have.

I did always think it was weird how your Super Bass just would not break up at all. You might be right that something was "off" all along and we just haven't figured it out yet.

The lower inputs test might reveal something.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

I tried the lower inputs today and there was no difference with input I, (other than a lower level/response).
With MV on 5 and V on 5 or 7 I decided, as we'd discussed them, to try a little fooling with tone controls.
After gentle nudges here & there I dimed the bass - there was an improvement in tone. I then did the same with mid & treble - again better. Presence as well cool then backed off everything but the presence and the sound was still good.. I tried middle PU position and it was better - then neck pickup and again better.
I haven't recorded a sample as my wife was wearing headphones up stairs to bloke out the noise so I'll have to wait until tomorrow I suppose.
To summarise - the combination of presence and mid or neck pick up seems to push the I input much better - sounds much more like II.
Clips tomorrow I hope.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Greg_L wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:51 pm
rayc wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:49 am Greg,
I'm looking starting points for settings - MV:V as well as the tone group.
I ought to experiment and decide what my ears tell me is good but you know, as well as I do, that my ears aren't critical enough.
I look forward to a Plexi sample for comparison and any reccos that come with it.
Here ya go Ray. These are kind of long, but they show how my Plexis behave with a humbucker/Les Paul.

Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge
Marshall Plexi 1959
All tone controls - 5
PPIMV - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12H30
Senn e609 on axis, on grill, dustcap/cone seam - Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, halfway across cone
All tracks 50/50 blend
No EQ or FX

This is the "bright channel", Channel 1, high input 1 only. Channel vol on 2, then 5, then cranked.
LP1959G12H30CH1.mp3

This is the "normal channel", Channel 2, high input 2 only. Channel vol on 2, then 5, then cranked.
LP1959G12H30CH2.mp3

See what you think.
I think the CH2 clip sounds a bit dark but the CH1 clip sounds fucking great! Its bright but not thin, aggressive but doesn't make you wince. Recon it would sit great in a mix.
Have you ever done a Bowie cover? You could probably pep it up a bit and it would sound really good.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:09 am I tried the lower inputs today and there was no difference with input I, (other than a lower level/response).
With MV on 5 and V on 5 or 7 I decided, as we'd discussed them, to try a little fooling with tone controls.
After gentle nudges here & there I dimed the bass - there was an improvement in tone. I then did the same with mid & treble - again better. Presence as well cool then backed off everything but the presence and the sound was still good.. I tried middle PU position and it was better - then neck pickup and again better.
I haven't recorded a sample as my wife was wearing headphones up stairs to bloke out the noise so I'll have to wait until tomorrow I suppose.
To summarise - the combination of presence and mid or neck pick up seems to push the I input much better - sounds much more like II.
Clips tomorrow I hope.
Also try Ch1 with a boost....if you have one. Really drive the high input and see if it gets overdriven.
JD01 wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:52 am
I think the CH2 clip sounds a bit dark but the CH1 clip sounds fucking great! Its bright but not thin, aggressive but doesn't make you wince. Recon it would sit great in a mix.
Have you ever done a Bowie cover? You could probably pep it up a bit and it would sound really good.
Thanks JD.
Yeah I've got covers of Ziggy and Suffragette and Rebel Rebel around somewhere.

The Ch2 is definitely dark. That's the "normal channel" of a Plexi. That's just how it's voiced, and it's why people jumper the inputs on these amps. Ch 1 is the usual go-to channel for most people, but to thicken it up a little, you can jump the inputs and blend in a little of that dark Ch2. The channels don't mix in the amp until way downstream so it doesn't really add gain, just balance. If you ever see pics of a Plexi-type amp with a little jumper cable between it's 4 inputs, that's what's going on - blending the channels.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Cool - did you punk them up? Or keep them the same as the originals?
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:01 am Cool - did you punk them up? Or keep them the same as the originals?
Um....I just did them in my way. I think I did Ziggy pretty close to the real thing, but the others might be more aggressive. I don't usually try to fuck with songs/bands that I respect. I can't make Suffragette City or Ziggy Stardust any better than it is, so I just try to do stuff like that justice while still being me.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Ray: Maybe there is something goin' on with your amp dude, I'd never thought about that until you guys mentioned it, but it does kinda make sense...I hope not, but do keep us up to date...As much & as hard as you've been tryin', you more than deserve to catch what you've been chasing dude....

Greg: Those do sound good. & now that you mention it, the channel blend my be why I liked the Chupa so much, it was basically permanently jumpered by being wired that way internally onto one input, when in high-gain modes, I'm guessing using just the high channel...

The more I think about the new Origin, the more it reminds me of the Chupa in ways...Both are 50w EL34 plexi-ish amps, but, it also makes me wonder how close the Origin boosted would be to the Chupa...I'd planned on getting another boost pedal or two, but I'll have to wait to find out more about the Origin...But, the Chupa's 2 high gain modes, combined with the bright/gain toggle switches made for a lot of options which were all bad-ass to me...

Damn I really miss that Chupacabra, I chased my fuckin' tail until I got that amp, & have been chasin' it ever since I sold it...I might just say "Fuck it!!!" & sell some of my gear to buy another one...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:30 pm Ray: Maybe there is something goin' on with your amp dude, I'd never thought about that until you guys mentioned it, but it does kinda make sense...I hope not, but do keep us up to date...As much & as hard as you've been tryin', you more than deserve to catch what you've been chasing dude....

Greg: Those do sound good. & now that you mention it, the channel blend my be why I liked the Chupa so much, it was basically permanently jumpered by being wired that way internally onto one input, when in high-gain modes, I'm guessing using just the high channel...

The more I think about the new Origin, the more it reminds me of the Chupa in ways...Both are 50w EL34 plexi-ish amps, but, it also makes me wonder how close the Origin boosted would be to the Chupa...I'd planned on getting another boost pedal or two, but I'll have to wait to find out more about the Origin...But, the Chupa's 2 high gain modes, combined with the bright/gain toggle switches made for a lot of options which were all bad-ass to me...

Damn I really miss that Chupacabra, I chased my fuckin' tail until I got that amp, & have been chasin' it ever since I sold it...I might just say "Fuck it!!!" & sell some of my gear to buy another one...
I don't think the Origin will get anywhere near the gain and sound that Chupa had. It's hard to tell because it's so new and the video demos suck, but it just doesn't seem like it'll do it.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:53 pm I don't think the Origin will get anywhere near the gain and sound that Chupa had. It's hard to tell because it's so new and the video demos suck, but it just doesn't seem like it'll do it.
I already know it won't get there on it's own, but I was thinking with a boost pedal it might...But, man it was so fuckin' nice just to plug into that amp, twist a couple knobs & be "there"...

I'm seriously thinking of selling some of my gear to fund one...There are a few things I wouldn't even consider selling, but there are a few things that may go on the chopping block...

Of course I'd have to think this over pretty hard, but don't be surprised if I don't put a few things up for sale...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

I know you loved that amp. Fuck it. Sell enough stuff until you can get another one.
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