I realised the other day that the normal key I sing in - G/Em is probably a touch low for me. I've stared transposing songs to A and they're much easier, it's weird, the high bits are sing lower but in a comfortable place and fit much more easily with the low bits so I don't end up with really difficult transition from singing to screaming. Anyway, that's not what this is about.
I'm thinking of tuning all of my guitars and basses up to F#, to save me having to transpose everything in my brain. Do you think this could cause any problems and what could I do to compensate? I don't want to leave a capo on the 2nd fret pretty much all the bloody time.
Key for singing.
Re: Key for singing.
Ita actually a bit of a shit key to play in on the guitar for me as instead of Em I end up with F# minor
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Bubba
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Re: Key for singing.
This is a problem I don't understand. What's to prevent you just using barre chords? And I don't understand why you have to transpose everything in your brain just to play one tone higher. 
do you use a lot of open strings?
do you use a lot of open strings?Haggard Musician 
Re: Key for singing.
And why does it have to revolve around G/Em? If you like A, then write shit around A. You're way overthinking this.
Rebel Yell
Re: Key for singing.
Was just chatting to Bubba about this. I realised it's just an annoyance that I have to get used to.... it's just cos I've been playing guitar for 20 years without singing at all so just naturally fell into the habit of always playing in Em or Bm. It's just ingrained in my muscle memory. I just know what notes on the fretboard make what sound in those keys.
Guess I can just play without looking a bit more.
Guess I can just play without looking a bit more.
Re: Key for singing.
There is no specific key that any voice sings in. It has nothing to do with key signature. Key signature and pitch are not the same.
You have a vocal range from the lowest to highest notes you can comfortably sing (range) and if you can sing an octave those notes will feature in any and all keys. The trick is to establish where the melody sits relative to the centre of you range. Look at the spread of the notes in the melody and match that to your vocal range "centre note".
Your vocal range "centre note" is the pitch you sound when you cough. That is you natural vocal pitch. Place the central pitch of the melody as near to that pitch as you can. That will dictate the key you are singing in because the intervals dictate the key signature not the pitch. Most people can then adjust the key up or down a few tones to get the key to one that is comfortable for all musicians. No matter what octave you are in the key signature will feature the same notes. What you need to do is pitch the key for a Bass, tenor, baritone, alto etc for the melody you are attempting to sing... Thats how you do it.
You have a vocal range from the lowest to highest notes you can comfortably sing (range) and if you can sing an octave those notes will feature in any and all keys. The trick is to establish where the melody sits relative to the centre of you range. Look at the spread of the notes in the melody and match that to your vocal range "centre note".
Your vocal range "centre note" is the pitch you sound when you cough. That is you natural vocal pitch. Place the central pitch of the melody as near to that pitch as you can. That will dictate the key you are singing in because the intervals dictate the key signature not the pitch. Most people can then adjust the key up or down a few tones to get the key to one that is comfortable for all musicians. No matter what octave you are in the key signature will feature the same notes. What you need to do is pitch the key for a Bass, tenor, baritone, alto etc for the melody you are attempting to sing... Thats how you do it.
Re: Key for singing.
Jesus mutt! You know what I bloody mean. Just Greg got me thinking rhe other day when he said that somethung sounded low for me. He was right!
Re: Key for singing.
I know what you mean and you are approaching it the wrong way. Vocally the guitar accompanies you not the other way round. Learn a song around your preferred vocal range not around your preferred guitar key.
Trying to sing in a key that a song is either published in or suits your favorite playing key is maybe one of the biggest mistakes I see among musicians. There is a right key for you to sing a song in and not a key that you sing in. Get a capo if you really struggle with transposing. Several well known singers have ended up with vocal nodules because they forced their vocal range.
I have maybe 2 or 3 hundred in my gig list and they cover pretty much all keys. Doing Blues I will will call stuff in F, or Bb, or Eb. Gigging Jazz would be much the same because of the horn players. Gigging Rock or other none horn based gigs I would call them in E, C, A or D depending on where they sit on my vocal range. If the song sits in a minor key then I would call the relative minor. I gig with guys that can do that and I can do it too.. If a horn player or singer calls a tune in a key that I'm not used to I can transpose it on the fly..
Trying to sing in a key that a song is either published in or suits your favorite playing key is maybe one of the biggest mistakes I see among musicians. There is a right key for you to sing a song in and not a key that you sing in. Get a capo if you really struggle with transposing. Several well known singers have ended up with vocal nodules because they forced their vocal range.
I have maybe 2 or 3 hundred in my gig list and they cover pretty much all keys. Doing Blues I will will call stuff in F, or Bb, or Eb. Gigging Jazz would be much the same because of the horn players. Gigging Rock or other none horn based gigs I would call them in E, C, A or D depending on where they sit on my vocal range. If the song sits in a minor key then I would call the relative minor. I gig with guys that can do that and I can do it too.. If a horn player or singer calls a tune in a key that I'm not used to I can transpose it on the fly..
Re: Key for singing.
All I'm trying to get you to understand is that key and pitch are not related. A key signature describes the intervals in an octave. Pitch describes in what octave they occur (repeatedly). Find the heart of the melody and where it sits relative to your vocal range. The key then describes itself. If it's C and I'm with a horn player I will shift a semi to Bb, if it A and I have horn players I will shift a semi to Bb.... Its pretty common practice.
I will admit that unless I am accompanying myself I rarely if ever play an open chord and when I do it is for other reasons than key...
I will admit that unless I am accompanying myself I rarely if ever play an open chord and when I do it is for other reasons than key...
Re: Key for singing.
I could not care less about keys ..... on sax, guitar or bass I can play anything in any key and change immediately.
I'm one horn player that really doesn't care AT ALL what key it's in.
Yes, on guitar sometimes there are open strings that you lose if you change keys but then I just play that part differently.
But one thing I do when I'm singing (which is always since my gigs are 98% solo) I put songs in the key my voice sounds best in regardless of what the original would be in.
I dunno about tuning up a step ...... if you stick to it you'll get where you can go up a step without thinking about it.
But yes, absolutely put songs where your voice sounds its best ...... everything else can be dealt with but your vocal range mostly can't.
I'm one horn player that really doesn't care AT ALL what key it's in.
Yes, on guitar sometimes there are open strings that you lose if you change keys but then I just play that part differently.
But one thing I do when I'm singing (which is always since my gigs are 98% solo) I put songs in the key my voice sounds best in regardless of what the original would be in.
I dunno about tuning up a step ...... if you stick to it you'll get where you can go up a step without thinking about it.
But yes, absolutely put songs where your voice sounds its best ...... everything else can be dealt with but your vocal range mostly can't.
Re: Key for singing.
Gotta agree with Lt Bob also - sing in your comfort zone. Hopefully you'll adapt quickly to the transposed chords. Myself, I would not change tuning.
I don't gig much except the odd party with the same old crew. They've got fixed keys for certain songs the girl sings (for 40 years). I mentioned they have to change to the girl's range but it never happens. So she still sounds strained or too low after 40 years.
I don't gig much except the odd party with the same old crew. They've got fixed keys for certain songs the girl sings (for 40 years). I mentioned they have to change to the girl's range but it never happens. So she still sounds strained or too low after 40 years.
People want something for nothing, they want it right now. Either they can't tell quality or don't care but feel it is important that everyone agrees with them.
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WhiskeyJack
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Re: Key for singing.
I think i get where JD is coming from though. I kind of half assed started a punk rock tribute to a very basic all most talking type of country vocalist and i bailed on it because i just sort of sounded stupid. when you overdrive the guitars and add some energy and but yet you keep the tune where it needed to be vocally, it just sounded, well, lacklustre. for a lack of better terms. I have since revisited it a few weeks ago but instead of playing it on the root note (i call it a root note because idkwtf else to call it) of A i moved the whole thing down to G and it seemed to gel a little nicer and opened it up to kind of to newer possibilities.
I just listened to JD's silent night (on ear buds at work so i can't really comment on too much more mix wise sorry JD,) and i think that is sort of the same suffrage he is going through. just move the notes around dude. play with different arrangements and make it yours. Your trying to add energy life and excitement to church hymn pretty much.
I just listened to JD's silent night (on ear buds at work so i can't really comment on too much more mix wise sorry JD,) and i think that is sort of the same suffrage he is going through. just move the notes around dude. play with different arrangements and make it yours. Your trying to add energy life and excitement to church hymn pretty much.
Re: Key for singing.
Typical rock/metal guitar playing. You're not alone in doing everything from "E". It's a common problem. But if it sometimes doesn't work for your voice, then move your fucking hand.
Rebel Yell
Re: Key for singing.
What mutt said. The stuff I've been writing, I'm not even sure what key it's in until it's too late to do anything about it because its often not chord based - it becomes a matter of finding a vocal melody that sits OK in what's recorded. There are times when I've scrubbed it out and moved it up or down a notch, but usually I don't.
You should be able to find something that fits in with most keys, and like Bubba said, if you can't, with most rock guitar music - barre chords. And there are capos if you really have to use open shapes - although they're probably frowned upon a bit with electrics but whatever works.
You should be able to find something that fits in with most keys, and like Bubba said, if you can't, with most rock guitar music - barre chords. And there are capos if you really have to use open shapes - although they're probably frowned upon a bit with electrics but whatever works.
Re: Key for singing.
Had a lot more of a fuck about with this last night. My mrs found it weird when she walked in and I was doing a really churchy finger picked version of Silent Night in A.
Mutt, I understand what your saying.
Its like Greg just said above - being a typical rock/metal guitarist I write everything in E minor 'cos I've played guitar without singing a note for 20 years... I've struggled like fuck with singing over the last two years, high notes being crazy high screams for me and the lows being wobbley. I've moved everything up a step and the singing is coming much easier - I don't exactly have a wide range. Just gotta start keeping my vocal range in mind when I write songs. I generally feel like I've swallowed a golf-ball after I've spent an hour working on vocals at the moment.
Mutt, I understand what your saying.
Its like Greg just said above - being a typical rock/metal guitarist I write everything in E minor 'cos I've played guitar without singing a note for 20 years... I've struggled like fuck with singing over the last two years, high notes being crazy high screams for me and the lows being wobbley. I've moved everything up a step and the singing is coming much easier - I don't exactly have a wide range. Just gotta start keeping my vocal range in mind when I write songs. I generally feel like I've swallowed a golf-ball after I've spent an hour working on vocals at the moment.
Re: Key for singing.
Seriously, if singing leaves you with a strained throat you need to explore your singing technique. Thats the potential for vocal nodules I was talking about. You need to practice singing from deeper in your lungs and belly and not just straining your neck and vocal chords. It sounds like that may be a real possibility for you and I'd hate for you to suffer that.
Try experimenting with your vocal technique and also develop your transposing skills. Both will help you immensely. Tuning everything differently isnt the solution.
Try experimenting with your vocal technique and also develop your transposing skills. Both will help you immensely. Tuning everything differently isnt the solution.
Re: Key for singing.
Yeah - tuning up was just a lazy knee-jerk reaction 'cos I'm so used to playing the guitar in G and D so I've got the fretboard so ingrained in my muscle memory. It won't do me any harm to get E and A similarly ingrained.
Regarding the vocals - if I'm going to start playing live again (which I probably will be next year as I've finally found a decent bassist) I'm going to get a few vocal lessons. I had a few lessons a year or so ago and got some basics down to help me out with breathing and pitch control, but I could probably do with a bit more help now.
Re: Key for singing.
If you do then mention vocal nodules as a thing. They will know exactly what you mean.JD01 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:00 amYeah - tuning up was just a lazy knee-jerk reaction 'cos I'm so used to playing the guitar in G and D so I've got the fretboard so ingrained in my muscle memory. It won't do me any harm to get E and A similarly ingrained.
Regarding the vocals - if I'm going to start playing live again (which I probably will be next year as I've finally found a decent bassist) I'm going to get a few vocal lessons. I had a few lessons a year or so ago and got some basics down to help me out with breathing and pitch control, but I could probably do with a bit more help now.
It's also good practice to familiarise yourself with the fretboard in all keys so no harm there either..
