Wiring Issue

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
Post Reply
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

I may be a bit green in this department but ill try and explain as best i can.

I was trying to dial in a tone on my Sparrow yesterday and it sounded kind of noisy and dirty. Kind of randomly at times too. The pick ups are kent armstrong humbuckers. I know that sparrow uses two different types of kent armstrong humbuckers i am not 100% sure which creature these are but they are eorher the kent armstrong high output or maybe even the super distortion if i were to guess?

What i noticed is happening is it seems that all the pick up are playing with each other.... together. When i only have the bridge pick up selected and turn the bridge pick ups vol and tone knobs to 0 i still hear noise as if the pup selector is maybe in the neck or middle position?

When i turn all the knobs to 0 i will still get an audiable flutter pluck sound come from the amp if i strum across the strings.

I can provide tones later.

Was the intentional of the guitar maker or a fancy wiring job i havent quite experienced yet until now?
:happytrees:
User avatar
Lt. Bob
Posts: 6558
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Lt. Bob »

well ..... with ALL the knobs at 0 you should get nothing so more info would be required .... how many knobs and how many switches to start with and maybe a pic and later you may need to open it up to take a pic of the innards.
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by muttley »

You are going to have to get dirty and open her up and check a few things....

Do you have a multimetre?
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Ok. Im just leaving from home after a dog walk. Ill get some up here when i get back. I dont have a multimeter but i cam get one one also on the way home.
:happytrees:
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

here are a few snap shots

front, yea that off black graphic on this thing is sort of hideous, lame and totally not my style, I always wanted a Sparrow Les Paul type of rig and for the price of it the dummy was selling it for it was hard to not say no. :like: I basically stole it. :lollers: :lollers: :lollers:



inside the switch cavity



inside the control cavity, looks like a shit show to me but i really have no idea what i am looking at.



If you need more of anything let me know, iam going to leave this open till i figure it out.

I just checked all my other guitars and none of them respond this way. right fully so i reckon. In my mind the sparrow shouldn't be doing what it is doing. It almost feels like maybe something is wrong. I feel sort of stupid i haven't noticed this before.
:happytrees:
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Ok so you can't really see in the previous photos but i am going to take a shot in the dark and guess that this dickhead is likely the primary root of my issues. :sherlock: :confused:

:happytrees:
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Greg_L »

Well a broken wire aint good. Fix that first.

The last guitar I had that sort of "crosstalked" between pickups had bad pots. You've got one or more volume pots not turning all the way off.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
Lt. Bob
Posts: 6558
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Lt. Bob »

gregs right ..... fix the wire ..... that may be the entire problem
User avatar
muttley
Posts: 6790
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 am
Location: right here right now..
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by muttley »

That is almost certainly the culprit.

Before you go sticking a soldering iron in there take a look at this to check out exacty what you have there and where stuff should be going...

http://www.kentarmstrong.com/schematics ... ctions.pdf
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:30 am Well a broken wire aint good. Fix that first.

The last guitar I had that sort of "crosstalked" between pickups had bad pots. You've got one or more volume pots not turning all the way off.
That is two votes for checking the pots. TRR use Hatfield Creek mentioned it to me too when i texted him about it. I can investigate that too. Only question is... How?

Also these pots don't seem to have any kind of designation on them? how do i know if they are 250 or 500K
muttley wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:27 am That is almost certainly the culprit.

Before you go sticking a soldering iron in there take a look at this to check out exacty what you have there and where stuff should be going...

http://www.kentarmstrong.com/schematics ... ctions.pdf
Ohhhh good find man. That will come in handy. I am going to sit and have a peek at this shortly over coffee.


How do i figure out what wire is what and what goes where. I am really sort of treading into unfamiliar territory here. :confused: Is that what the mulitmeter is for? I managed to find one at Princess Auto for 20 bucks. I love that place. I rarely ever need much from there but when i do they have it and the prices are typically unbeatable.

Forgive my ignorance guys, but up until a handful of years ago guitars were only things that i used for making power chords. total disregard to the guts of them. :metal:
:happytrees:
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Greg_L »

Do you have coil-splits on that guitar?

That wiring really looks a mess. And the no-name pots will mean you will have to un-wire and isolate each one to test it's value and taper.

I would suggest you gut it and start fresh with new good pots and a re-wire. You can really simplify the wiring and have it all rock solid with good pots.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:47 pm Do you have coil-splits on that guitar?
Nope. none of the knobs are push pull and i see no additional switches anywhere else?

each tone pot has a little green candy like looking thing onto it. What is that? Will i perish if i touch it?
:happytrees:
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:01 pm

Nope. none of the knobs are push pull and i see no additional switches anywhere else?

each tone pot has a little green candy like looking thing onto it. What is that? Will i perish if i touch it?
Lol. No. That's a tone cap. No big deal.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Greg_L »

There is nothing in a guitar that you can't touch. No electricity, no stored electricity, no nothing.

Fix that broken wire first. It may work just fine after that.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Greg_L »

It looks like maybe that broken wire goes from the bridge vol pot to the bridge tone pot? Is that right? Where does the other end of the broken wire go? Does the bridge tone pot work at all?
Rebel Yell
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:07 pm It looks like maybe that broken wire goes from the bridge vol pot to the bridge tone pot? Is that right? Where does the other end of the broken wire go? Does the bridge tone pot work at all?
Yea that's exactly it. And no the bridge tone knob doesn't do fuck all. I guess that should have been a dead give away.
:happytrees:
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:16 pm

Yea that's exactly it. And no the bridge tone knob doesn't do fuck all. I guess that should have been a dead give away.
Okay well fix that and see what happens. The only thing that really needs to be connected between the vol pot and tone pot is that green cap, but sometimes people complicate it by grounding the cap on the tone pot and running a wire between the two pots. I suspect that white wire is a ground wire, and it probably connects to the bridge vol pot case where that big blob of ugly solder is.

If you want, you can gut all of that and wire it more simply, cleanly, and more effectively without having wires all over the place..
Rebel Yell
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:24 pm
WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:16 pm

Yea that's exactly it. And no the bridge tone knob doesn't do fuck all. I guess that should have been a dead give away.
Okay well fix that and see what happens. The only thing that really needs to be connected between the vol pot and tone pot is that green cap, but sometimes people complicate it by grounding the cap on the tone pot and running a wire between the two pots. I suspect that white wire is a ground wire, and it probably connects to the bridge vol pot case where that big blob of ugly solder is.

You can gut all of that and wire it more simply, cleanly, and more effectively without having wires all over the place..
I think for learning purposes i am going to gut it and redo it all and maybe look at options for this thing. it doesn't get a whole lot of mileage because it's intonation is kind of not good and the g string is mother fucker that never stays in tune but it s a really solid rhythm guitar. i am thinking it may get better with a bit of TLC on the electronics.

What are some other things, options i could consider to sweeten this thing up if i am going to decommission it for some upgrades? Keeping in mind this guitar will largely only ever be a rock and roll rhythm guitar? I think the pick ups themselves are fine i don't know that i'll swap them out at all.

Different tone capacitors or something? I am open to things to try.
:happytrees:
User avatar
WhiskeyJack
Site Admin
Posts: 11366
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by WhiskeyJack »

I can't my find my soldering iron. :spacepalm:
:happytrees:
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20629
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Wiring Issue

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:32 pm

I think for learning purposes i am going to gut it and redo it all and maybe look at options for this thing. it doesn't get a whole lot of mileage because it's intonation is kind of not good and the g string is mother fucker that never stays in tune but it s a really solid rhythm guitar. i am thinking it may get better with a bit of TLC on the electronics.

What are some other things, options i could consider to sweeten this thing up if i am going to decommission it for some upgrades? Keeping in mind this guitar will largely only ever be a rock and roll rhythm guitar? I think the pick ups themselves are fine i don't know that i'll swap them out at all.

Different tone capacitors or something? I am open to things to try.
It looks like you can probably split the pickups if you want to. If you use push/pull pots, those little red/green wires can be grounded with a switch to split the pickups.

Just putting in good pots and cleaning up all that redundant wiring will yield benefits. Simplify the grounding so you have no ground loops and/or redundant ground wires. Instead of having the jack wires run through the pots, have it go straight to the selector switch, and then back to the pots. Just basic "vintage" style Les Paul wiring will be much better than that mess those Sparrow guys did there.
Rebel Yell
Post Reply