NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:09 pm

you can increase or lower the gain with tubes?
Absolutely. The most common are 12ax7, 12at7, 12au7...all different gains. If you have 12ax7 amp that just has too much gain, you can tame it down with a 12at7 or 12au7. It's usually just the first preamp tube though. Drop the gain of that first gain stage and it drops the gain across the board. But you need to be mindful of the later gain stages. If you have an amp with lots of features - like fx loop or reverb - that run off the later gain stages/tubes, you could just fuck it all to hell by messing with that first gain stage.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by WhiskeyJack »

That is interesting. I knew there was all kinds of different tubes i just wasn't sure what they all did. Very cool.

no lies i think i have learned more on this forum in the last two or three weeks than i did the whole time i was on HR. :like: :happytrees: :happytrees:
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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WhiskeyJack wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:48 pm That is interesting. I knew there was all kinds of different tubes i just wasn't sure what they all did. Very cool.

no lies i think i have learned more on this forum in the last two or three weeks than i did the whole time i was on HR. :like: :happytrees: :happytrees:
Ha, awesome. :coolstorybro:

IMO, strictly my own opinion, there isn't much difference between common preamp tubes of the same type. A 12ax7 is a 12ax7, a 12at7 is a 12at7, and so on. Some have higher/lower gain than others, but they aren't magical tone makers IMO.

Power tubes on the other hand can be quite different. There are big differences in sound between EL34, 6550, KT66, KT88, 6V6, 6L6/5881, etc. They're all different types and they sound different. Two of the same amp with different types of power tubes will act and sound much different. They're not all interchangeable though. You can't just stick any power tubes in any amp. For most amps you need to stick with what it's made for, use something very similar to what it's made for, or mod the amp to use different tubes.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Minerman »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:09 pm
Minerman wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:49 pm but I'm doing that to lower the gain...
you can increase or lower the gain with tubes?
Yes, I use a lower gain (12AU7) in a couple spots for my amp, the EVH LBX has an insane amount of gain, & using a lower gained tube gives the gain knob a more usable sweep...With the stock 12AX7's even on the blue/crunch channel, I can't get the gain knob past "1" or it's just too much...

12AU7, 12AT7 are both lower gain than a 12AX7, I also have a couple 5751's, but those are pretty close to a 12AX7's gain...

You can go the other way too dude, if your amp doesn't have quite enough gain, there are higher gained tubes out there too...
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Minerman wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:02 am

You can go the other way too dude, if your amp doesn't have quite enough gain, there are higher gained tubes out there too...
Not really for guitar amps. The 12ax7 is the highest gain preamp tube you can use as a drop-in replacement. There are some 12ax7s that run a little hotter than others, but it's minimal. Look at any high gain amp. They use 12ax7s...they just use more of them. More gain stages. If there is a preamp tube that goes beyond the 12ax7 without needing mods, you can bet your ass that tons of people would already be using it.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:31 am
Minerman wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:02 am

You can go the other way too dude, if your amp doesn't have quite enough gain, there are higher gained tubes out there too...
Not really for guitar amps. The 12ax7 is the highest gain preamp tube you can use as a drop-in replacement. There are some 12ax7s that run a little hotter than others, but it's minimal. Look at any high gain amp. They use 12ax7s...they just use more of them. More gain stages. If there is a preamp tube that goes beyond the 12ax7 without needing mods, you can bet your ass that tons of people would already be using it.
Yeah dude, I meant to say the higher gain tubes (12ax7S IIRC) don't really go much past what a 12ax7 already is...
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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I just popped these new tubes in and biased it up. The bias was pretty decent with the old JJ E34Ls, so that's good. But with the new tubes I had to back it way down. The bias setting that worked for the old tubes was WAY hot with the new tubes. Just goes to show...you can't just pop new power tubes in without checking things.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:37 pm I just popped these new tubes in and biased it up. The bias was pretty decent with the old JJ E34Ls, so that's good. But with the new tubes I had to back it way down. The bias setting that worked for the old tubes was WAY hot with the new tubes. Just goes to show...you can't just pop new power tubes in without checking things.
I remember doing the power tube comparison with the Chupa, & the tubes were pretty different on the meter after I popped 'em into the amp...It's a good idea to check & set when changing power tubes...

I also remember the Line 6 Spider Valve, I was terrified of trying to bias that amp...I ended up going digital/direct shortly after I bought it, but finally bit the bullet to learn how to set the bias when I went with real amps a few years ago, thanks to the Tone Thread... :smiles:

The EVH amp I have now is plug-n-play, there is a bias wheel/pot, but it's gooped, which would void the warranty...
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Minerman wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:58 pm

The EVH amp I have now is plug-n-play, there is a bias wheel/pot, but it's gooped, which would void the warranty...
So how are you supposed to change tubes or set the bias?
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:27 pm
Minerman wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:58 pm

The EVH amp I have now is plug-n-play, there is a bias wheel/pot, but it's gooped, which would void the warranty...
So how are you supposed to change tubes or set the bias?
It's one of those self-biasing amps (cathode biased???) dude, like the Egnater Tweaker...I'm sure if I took it to an authorized dealer/repairman, they'd break the seal on the bias pot if I stood over 'em & made 'em do it right...
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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I Wanna Be Well.mp3
Here's a quick cover with the new amp. One single centered rhythm guitar track, all knobs on ten. Fully cranked. :coolstorybro:
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:04 pm I Wanna Be Well.mp3

Here's a quick cover with the new amp. One single centered rhythm guitar track, all knobs on ten. Fully cranked. :coolstorybro:
Dude.... I think this is my favorite of all your tones. Which guit did you use? :like: Top Shelf Investment.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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WhiskeyJack wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:49 pm

Dude.... I think this is my favorite of all your tones. Which guit did you use? :like: Top Shelf Investment.
Thanks man! That's the Hallmark 60 Custom.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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I suspected so much. So glad i got rid of that windows enhanced audio thing and can listen to yallz stuff thru the day.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:04 pm I Wanna Be Well.mp3

Here's a quick cover with the new amp. One single centered rhythm guitar track, all knobs on ten. Fully cranked. :coolstorybro:
Well done Greg, it sounds a little odd to me because of the single guitar track, but that's just me...Sounds good dude... :minernuggs:
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Minerman wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:08 pm

Well done Greg, it sounds a little odd to me because of the single guitar track, but that's just me...Sounds good dude... :minernuggs:
Yeah I didn't wanna do the double-track-wide thing. Simple song, keep it simple. Thanks dude.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Simple is good. I like simple. I remember reading this interview with Mike Ness about his tone and production and how it is has evolved. A lot of the early stuff was double, triple tracking. The White light White heat record i believe i read he and Denis did 20+ guitar tracks each. I would find 4 tracks excessive with the 5th being just about pointless and a waste of time. Then in the last couple records he did just one kick ass track of one really great tone he loved, mic'd with really good mic's and he was done. The last few of his records weren't anything to write home about but his tone on that last one is probably my favorite out of all his records.

find a sound you love and grab it . I think that just stands to reason. That is much easier said than done as we all know.


Also in keeping with the NAD theme tomorrow Long and McQuade is doing a half price rental day, so i may grab a JCM900 for a month. I wont get to use it much but it might be fun.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Greg,
It sounds ace.
You may as well mix the drums to mono and get the 1st album vibe properly.
Cool sound all round.
An amp that certainly lives up to the legend.
How hard were you hitting the skins?
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Cool how a single track can sound so great. Well, it's also due to the playing and stuff too. Good to hear what that amp can do.
People want something for nothing, they want it right now. Either they can't tell quality or don't care but feel it is important that everyone agrees with them.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:54 pm Simple is good. I like simple. I remember reading this interview with Mike Ness about his tone and production and how it is has evolved. A lot of the early stuff was double, triple tracking. The White light White heat record i believe i read he and Denis did 20+ guitar tracks each. I would find 4 tracks excessive with the 5th being just about pointless and a waste of time. Then in the last couple records he did just one kick ass track of one really great tone he loved, mic'd with really good mic's and he was done. The last few of his records weren't anything to write home about but his tone on that last one is probably my favorite out of all his records.

find a sound you love and grab it . I think that just stands to reason. That is much easier said than done as we all know.
Mike Ness has always had bad ass tone. I've seen Social D live like at least a dozen times - it's always awesome. I stopped at White Light though. I'm not crazy about any of the records after that.

Also in keeping with the NAD theme tomorrow Long and McQuade is doing a half price rental day, so i may grab a JCM900 for a month. I wont get to use it much but it might be fun.
Do it! Give it a try. A 900 is a pretty bright amp. I bet it'd sound killer in a mix opposite your Orange.
rayc wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:19 pm Greg,
It sounds ace.
You may as well mix the drums to mono and get the 1st album vibe properly.
Cool sound all round.
An amp that certainly lives up to the legend.
How hard were you hitting the skins?
Ha thanks Ray. I'll try to throw up a mono mix tomorrow or sunday. I don't know how hard I hit the drums. Regular hard? Too hard? I don't ever really think about it. I just know I never hit soft. Dynamic drumming is not something I'm capable of doing. Nor do I want to.
ido1957 wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:31 pm Cool how a single track can sound so great. Well, it's also due to the playing and stuff too. Good to hear what that amp can do.
Thanks man. I'll be putting up more of this amp. Dial it back a bit and do some "classic rock" type tones. This was literally full cranked everything. I think I lost a few teeth.
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