NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:46 pm One word:


Tinnitus.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Minerman »

Shan: You've got one of the holy grail amps there dude...Looking forward to hearing that amp... :minernuggs:

The guy brought the 50w EVH amp by today so I could try it out, & while it does sound damn good, it doesn't really do anything my 15w EVH won't do, other than a very clean (which I've found a few ways to do) tone, so I passed on it... I should've recorded some clips but didn't...I dialed both amps in with the same settings & the only difference was the 50w was louder...

I'm just gonna wait a while longer & stick to my original plan to buy an attenuator so I can use bigger amps with my ISO cab...
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by WhiskeyJack »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:09 pm My little end of the neighborhood is going to get a bit louder this afternoon. :happytrees: Gilly is going to spend the afternoon outside. :lollers: :lollers:



TRR user Hatfiled Creek hooked me up via L&M half price rental day. I also got the Traynor Iron Horse as well casue i started a cover with it and it kind of worked but i heard numerous fuck ups. So i'll retrack with a better knowledge of how my cab works.

But the 40W Ironhorse and the JCM800 came to a whopping 85 bucks for the month.
I got one little project to get off my desk here in about 15 mins, sto at the lumber yard mega quick, go for a haircut and then going home to rearrange a few things and grab a few tones with this beast. Hopefully have something for ya'll to check out tonight. :like: :like: :like: :happytrees: :coolstorybro: :coolstorybro:
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by WhiskeyJack »

K, so, My recoridng experience with the JCM was a bit of a let down i must say and the tones i did capture are nothing short of embarrasing so for now i am going to regroup and retry. My biggest oversight i think was the pre amp setting. In the air and to my ears i 'thought' i had it dialed in pretty nicely. I tracked a little bit last yesterday afternoon and listened this morning after the tinitus went away and i wasn't happy with it. At all. It's rubbish and honestly not worth sharing. So i am going to take another stab at it soon.

Additionally embarrassing my LPjr, has been sitting out of it's holster for a few weeks and i forgot that our furnace has sinced kicked in and it is in pretty desperate need of a set up. Gross.

I'll get there eventually.
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Greg_L
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:08 am K, so, My recoridng experience with the JCM was a bit of a let down i must say and the tones i did capture are nothing short of embarrasing so for now i am going to regroup and retry. My biggest oversight i think was the pre amp setting. In the air and to my ears i 'thought' i had it dialed in pretty nicely. I tracked a little bit last yesterday afternoon and listened this morning after the tinitus went away and i wasn't happy with it. At all. It's rubbish and honestly not worth sharing. So i am going to take another stab at it soon.
That sounds like a mic position problem. If you liked what you heard in the room and didn't like it through the mic, then that has to be what it is, right?

And the room is gonna color it a bunch too. What you hear with your ears is not what a mic hears jammed up on the grill.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Greg_L wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:32 am
WhiskeyJack wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:08 am K, so, My recoridng experience with the JCM was a bit of a let down i must say and the tones i did capture are nothing short of embarrasing so for now i am going to regroup and retry. My biggest oversight i think was the pre amp setting. In the air and to my ears i 'thought' i had it dialed in pretty nicely. I tracked a little bit last yesterday afternoon and listened this morning after the tinitus went away and i wasn't happy with it. At all. It's rubbish and honestly not worth sharing. So i am going to take another stab at it soon.
That sounds like a mic position problem. If you liked what you heard in the room and didn't like it through the mic, then that has to be what it is, right?

And the room is gonna color it a bunch too. What you hear with your ears is not what a mic hears jammed up on the grill.
this is all true and mic position is worth looking into. I think i just don't know this amp at all. I've spent like, 6 hours total with it. and the sound morphed every-time i touched it. not so much with the B-M-T controls but definitely that presence or contour control and the mixing of the master and the pre amp. Once i find a place to marry that weird little three way together i think i will have way way better results.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Minerman »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:53 pm
Greg_L wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:32 am

That sounds like a mic position problem. If you liked what you heard in the room and didn't like it through the mic, then that has to be what it is, right?

And the room is gonna color it a bunch too. What you hear with your ears is not what a mic hears jammed up on the grill.
this is all true and mic position is worth looking into. I think i just don't know this amp at all. I've spent like, 6 hours total with it. and the sound morphed every-time i touched it. not so much with the B-M-T controls but definitely that presence or contour control and the mixing of the master and the pre amp. Once i find a place to marry that weird little three way together i think i will have way way better results.
Just take your time dude, I know you're only gonna have that amp for a month, but you've got the skills & time to get it dialed in man...Write down your settings, & update whenever you change something, a cell phone camera is great for this...Just tweak what you think it needs, rinse & repeat dude...I will say being able to have the cab in another room might help, because that's a loud motherfucker when you get it wound up...

Remember, this is a Marshall, Shan, it's a bright, percussive sounding amp, with a biting attack, I'd go easy on the treble/presence knobs, & maybe even the mic placement might need to be a little darker than what you usually use...
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:53 pm

this is all true and mic position is worth looking into. I think i just don't know this amp at all. I've spent like, 6 hours total with it. and the sound morphed every-time i touched it. not so much with the B-M-T controls but definitely that presence or contour control and the mixing of the master and the pre amp. Once i find a place to marry that weird little three way together i think i will have way way better results.
The amp is bright and attacky. Watch the presence. I never put mine past "5". It's usually somewhere around 2-4. Like right now I'm looking at my 800...

Presence - 4
Bass - 6
Mid - 6
Treb - 4
Master vol - 5
Preamp vol - 6

Try those settings because I know they totally kick ass on mine. I just did some tracks today.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

Update...

This amp was originally made for 6550s. It's been retrofitted to use EL34s. I got these 6550s from a friend of mine to go into the amp. I spent a nice chunk of this afternoon swapping out resistors back to stock MkII 6550 specs to use my new 6550s and....nope. They wont bias. I'm not getting anywhere near enough current through those tubes. With my plate voltage, 6550s need to idle at about ~60ma just to run average. I'm getting a whopping 18ma. All of the voltages are in spec. All of the caps and resistors are good to go. Everything measures properly, except the bias current. I think these tubes are bad. I don't have any other 6550s to try. I can start modifying the bias circuit to use the 6550s but I don't want to do all that. Oh well, going back to EL34s I guess.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:04 am Update...

This amp was originally made for 6550s. It's been retrofitted to use EL34s. I got these 6550s from a friend of mine to go into the amp. I spent a nice chunk of this afternoon swapping out resistors back to stock MkII 6550 specs to use my new 6550s and....nope. They wont bias. I'm not getting anywhere near enough current through those tubes. With my plate voltage, 6550s need to idle at about ~60ma just to run average. I'm getting a whopping 18ma. All of the voltages are in spec. All of the caps and resistors are good to go. Everything measures properly, except the bias current. I think these tubes are bad. I don't have any other 6550s to try. I can start modifying the bias circuit to use the 6550s but I don't want to do all that. Oh well, going back to EL34s I guess.
Well that kinda blows man because you spent about a full day of working on the amp...

Would it be worth trying another set of 6550's before you decide to call the dogs in & piss on the fire dude??? Just wondering...

And while I'm at it, are there any obvious differences in the tone between the EL34 & 6550 tubes??? School me on that if you wanna...

Keep us posted on what you end up doing man... :minernuggs:
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:02 am
Well that kinda blows man because you spent about a full day of working on the amp...

Would it be worth trying another set of 6550's before you decide to call the dogs in & piss on the fire dude??? Just wondering...

And while I'm at it, are there any obvious differences in the tone between the EL34 & 6550 tubes??? School me on that if you wanna...

Keep us posted on what you end up doing man... :minernuggs:
It's entirely possible that I've done something wrong. But I don't think so. I can follow the schematic and all of my parts are what they're supposed to be and where they're supposed to be. My voltages everywhere else are good. The 6550s just aren't pulling enough current.

If I had another set of 6550s I'd try them, but I'm not buying a set just for this. I'll just put it back to EL34s if I can't figure anything else out.

The difference...6550s are a little more ballsy in the low end and sharper in the highs than EL34s. The 6550 mids stay cleaner than EL34s wild crunchy mids. They're like EQ opposites. Not significant differences, but a little different. Odds are probably half of the famous classic Marshall tones we know were done with USA-spec 6550 Marshall amps. All those 70s and early 80s Marshalls in the US had 6550s. Mine is a US model from 1973 that originally came with 6550s.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:34 pm
Armistice wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:56 pm So how many Marshalls have you got now Greg? And do you have anything other than Marshalls?
Six, and no.
yes you do.
You have the GrAmp!
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

Lt. Bob wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:55 am yes you do.
You have the GrAmp!
Lol yeah, now I do. Six Marshalls and the Deluxe Gregoverb! :yeabuddy:
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

Welllllllllllllll.....

I put the amp back to EL34 spec. Popped EL34s back in it. Perfectly fine.

Just for kicks I put the 6550s in with the amp at EL34 specs and they work. They work a little too well. They are drawing a lot of current. I can't get the bias current low enough. I piggybacked some resistors across the bias feed and got it to where I can bias those beast 6550s into a safe range. These things are cool. They glow blue. Anyway, I'm gonna do a little more research and triple check my work. I must have done something wrong with my initial setup. I don't know where though - everything measured fine. I'm gonna do some calculations to get them to bias properly, solder in the right resistor, and I'm just gonna roll with it and see how they sound.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

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Greg_L wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:48 pm Welllllllllllllll.....

I put the amp back to EL34 spec. Popped EL34s back in it. Perfectly fine.

Just for kicks I put the 6550s in with the amp at EL34 specs and they work. They work a little too well. They are drawing a lot of current. I can't get the bias current low enough. I piggybacked some resistors across the bias feed and got it to where I can bias those beast 6550s into a safe range. These things are cool. They glow blue. Anyway, I'm gonna do a little more research and triple check my work. I must have done something wrong with my initial setup. I don't know where though - everything measured fine. I'm gonna do some calculations to get them to bias properly, solder in the right resistor, and I'm just gonna roll with it and see how they sound.
I'd say you're tedious & most likely double or triple check everything when you're doing stuff like this...Maybe you just overlooked something simple...Way above my pay grade though...

Keep us posted, I'm curious to hear the different power tubes if/when you get this lined out... :coolstorybro:
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:06 pm
I'd say you're tedious & most likely double or triple check everything when you're doing stuff like this...Maybe you just overlooked something simple...Way above my pay grade though...

Keep us posted, I'm curious to hear the different power tubes if/when you get this lined out... :coolstorybro:
What bugs me is I don't know what happened at first and I've already undone everything. I was very careful and measured everything I did. It all passed. All of my voltages were what they were supposed to be. I had it at factory USA 6550 spec. The tubes just wouldn't conduct. Then I undo everything and bam, they're fine. :confused:

The 6550s are way hot now though. So I've got to juggle some shit around, but I know I can get there from here.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

Eureka.....maybe.

Juggling the bias drop resistor value, I'm getting closer. Stock for EL34 is 27k. Stock for 6550 is 15k. Both of those values get me close, but the bias pot range is maxed either way for either resistance value. So I sort of split the difference. A 56k across a 27k is about 18k, so that's what I did. And it worked.

-50vdc on the grids....466vdc at the plates.....55ma at the tubes!!!! This puts the 6550s at about 60% plate dissipation. Perfectly safe and acceptable. And the bias trim pot is right in the middle of it's range, so I can fine tune either way. I think I can work with this.
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:29 pm Eureka.....maybe.

Juggling the bias drop resistor value, I'm getting closer. Stock for EL34 is 27k. Stock for 6550 is 15k. Both of those values get me close, but the bias pot range is maxed either way for either resistance value. So I sort of split the difference. A 56k across a 27k is about 18k, so that's what I did. And it worked.

-50vdc on the grids....466vdc at the plates.....55ma at the tubes!!!! This puts the 6550s at about 60% plate dissipation. Perfectly safe and acceptable. And the bias trim pot is right in the middle of it's range, so I can fine tune either way. I think I can work with this.
Glad you got it sorted dude...Still above my pay grade though... :smiles:
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Re: NAD!!!!!

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:52 pm
Glad you got it sorted dude...Still above my pay grade though... :smiles:
Well let's not celebrate yet. I've got it good on a volt meter. Things look good compared to a schematic and through voltage readings. We haven't actually heard it yet. :lollers2:
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