Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

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JD01
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by JD01 »

muttley wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:15 am JD went to Crimson for his custom. They do some off the wall stuff. Thats their USP. Their target market is pretty much those that want some thing bespoke and want it to look bespoke. Mine is to build something bespoke where the stuff thats been changed is only noticeable by those that know where to look. Without being too definitive, I build mostly for working pros who make a living with them, Crimson build for those that want a "Hot Rod" style statement. Nothing wrong with that, its just what they do.. I'm happy to build stuff like theirs but most often guys that come to me want top end with subtle looks. I also specialise in archtops and hollow body which is a whole different game when building and selling
My crimson is kind of somewhere in between a traditional build and the totally off the wall Crimson stuff. It looks pretty trad at first glance, it's pretty much just a Tele with an LP style top and a pair of humbuckers. But I went all fancy on the neck and bridge. Not that I want an 80s shred weapon. I just wanted the most comfortable guitar I could get.
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:22 pm

On this style of rod it doesnt anchor anywhere. It is a pretty tight fit in the slot and then glue and clamping pressure just hold it there.

A double action rod has a threaded bullet that is weldeed to a flat plate of mild steel that goes full length. The other end is welded to the rod. The business end of the rod has a hex or slot to allow you to turn the rod in the bullet thus shortening or lengthening the rod in relation to the steel plate causing it to bend... Hard to describe.

This should put you right... and save me doing a video of it.

Single and double action rods.
Ok I get that. I think I've seen some single-action truss rods that sort of have a "T" on the non-adjuster end. They're basically just threaded rod. Those kind seem to need some kind of notch in the truss rod channel for the T part to sit in. I thought they were all like that. :facepalm:
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by Bubba »

muttley wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:44 am Here goes folks.

Part one of the Les Paul Jnr build discusse in the preamble thread.

In this section we will cover the cutting of the templates and joining of the body blank. A bit dull I know but essential work.

I intend to put up a video of each stage and then add further content as and when required of requested... So if you want any further description or explanation just ask. I have a bunch of videos and pictures covering each stage.......

So with out further ado...

[BBvideo=560,315]https://youtu.be/MCJa2w1n2T0[/BBvideo]
Nice to see you lay the plane down on its side between uses. I do this too, but I've seen a few craftsman videos recently where I'm made to feel I'm a bit of a dunce for doing so. I still think it's best to do so, but I'd be pushed to articulate why.
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muttley
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by muttley »

Thats how I was taught. When I was a teenager doing my apprenticeship in the Rolls Royce wood shop if you left any cutting tool with it's cutting edge touching the bench you'd be put back a few months... Old habits die hard. One of the reasons I keep a bench carpet there most of the time is because you can lay a cutting tool down there any way you like. It has more to do with protecting the tools rather than the work piece. Most of my hand tools are old... very old. They are old because they are good and have been well cared for.

Nice to have another giuy here that understands and respects the work that goes into good tools and keen edges...;)
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muttley
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by muttley »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:08 pm
muttley wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:22 pm

On this style of rod it doesnt anchor anywhere. It is a pretty tight fit in the slot and then glue and clamping pressure just hold it there.

A double action rod has a threaded bullet that is weldeed to a flat plate of mild steel that goes full length. The other end is welded to the rod. The business end of the rod has a hex or slot to allow you to turn the rod in the bullet thus shortening or lengthening the rod in relation to the steel plate causing it to bend... Hard to describe.

This should put you right... and save me doing a video of it.

Single and double action rods.
Ok I get that. I think I've seen some single-action truss rods that sort of have a "T" on the non-adjuster end. They're basically just threaded rod. Those kind seem to need some kind of notch in the truss rod channel for the T part to sit in. I thought they were all like that. :facepalm:
There are quite a few ways of doing it but TBH a double action rod is only a few quid to buy. You can put them in either way up and they work. For years I built guitars that just had a steel T bar in there or a square stock bar. No adjustment. They work too if you build for a certain type of action.
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by muttley »

Time is pressing on me to keep up with posting on this but I've just cobbled Part five together..

The next step is to cut the headstock outline and decide what pickup route. Part six will be along soon covering the neck pocket and setting out for the bridge, pickup and neck angle..

[BBvideo=560,315]https://youtu.be/WaKwzlazsDo[/BBvideo]
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by Greg_L »

Love it. Very nice work.
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JD01
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by JD01 »

Looks like its gonna be great, Mutt.... I've never listened to so much Jazz.
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muttley
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

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JD01 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:36 am .... I've never listened to so much Jazz.
lol... thats cos I had Blue Note guitars players on shuffle those few days. Sometimes its Brit Pop sometimes it's classical, sometimes its funk can be anything. Some days it's a mix of everything and some days just talk radio...

You should listen to some of those guys though if only for the phrasing and grooves...
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

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That Japanese knife loos a very uncomfortable tool to use, Muttley! It works well,though. I kept expecting it to dig catastrophically into the grain! :biggrin:
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

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Its easy to us and as long as it's kept proper sharp it cuts like butter. Quick, accurate and just about the best tool for hogging wood out quickly and cleanly..
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

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Jumping ahead of the video progress for a bit....

Gerg has asked a few times to see how the neck angle is established on this and it's not really the sort of thing to chuck into a video as it wouild prolly need one of its own. I'm off on holiday for the rest of the week and wanted to get the neck glued up before I go so here is a quick photo essay on how I get the right neck angle for pretty much any guitar.

First you need to know is how the neck is fixed. Set, bolted, neck through etc... In this case its a Gibson style and unlike the Les Paul neck joing the angle is cut on the back of the heel rather than into the body. The neck pocket is of a uniform depth and an angle is cut on the heel to get the right pitch. On a junior it can be anywhere between 2.5 deegrees and 3.5 degrees and it will largely depend on the bridge. So I roughed out a 3 degree angle and went from there..

The bridge is a Vanson wraparound that I fancied trying as they havent been around long.

The little wood shim where the bridge will sit is the same thickness as the bevel on the stud that sicks out of the body once they are drilled in. Using the shim under the bridge I have the lowest set the bridge can achieve and that is where I want the string line to sit. Then when I raise the bridge, the action will raise with it and the bridge will sit as close to the body and not too high.


neck angle2.jpg
With the neck set in the pocket I can then run a straight edge along the top of the frets and see where the string line runs, and tinker with the angle to get it just touching the top of the saddle..


neck angle4.jpg

neck angle5.jpg

neck angle6.jpg
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by Greg_L »

Aaaaaaah, I see. Very nice. Seems so simple now that I can see it in action. Thanks Mutt.
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by muttley »

Yeh, it kind of is simple to visualise. On a Jnr it is pretty simple in practice too. On any guitar you need to know the bridge height and then you can set the neck angle. The hardest to do are probably archtops with a dovetail join as you need to get that cock on and then make the bridge to suit. There are a lot of different angles and surfaces going on there but the principle is the same.
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by Greg_L »

muttley wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:18 pm Yeh, it kind of is simple to visualise. On a Jnr it is pretty simple in practice too. On any guitar you need to know the bridge height and then you can set the neck angle. The hardest to do are probably archtops with a dovetail join as you need to get that cock on and then make the bridge to suit. There are a lot of different angles and surfaces going on there but the principle is the same.
I saw a Crimson video one time where he drew out the neck, string length, and body to scale on large paper and showed how it all works together. It was basically exactly what you just did in the pics. I understood the Crimson version, but I thought it couldn't be that simple. Lol.
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by muttley »

It kind of is what it is. You always have a neck, a body with a bridge, and a string. You just have to get them all to come together. There are other ways of doing it and sometimes its a bit more involved depending on the guitar but in essence. Its all about the bridge height. You work to that because you can alter all the other factors.

On this I worked to the height of the Vanson bridge which is none standard so I had to tinker it a bit. If it was a standard wraparound it would have been simpler. On other instruments such as my archtops I aim for an arch height of one inch and a bridge height of around the same that gives me a neck angle around four and a half degrees so I cut that on the tenon then tinker it until I'm happy.

You also have to make sure that the neck is true to the centre line but thats down to cutting the neck pocket or mortice right.
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by muttley »

Its actually a lot easier than it sounds. Probably no harder than some of the engineering stuff you've done on engines in the past. Its just knowing how it should come together then the detail takes care of itself.... People sometimes marvel at how we do it and its just understanding what it should be and working to that. What you can change and what you cant. Whats critical and what isnt..
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by rayc »

Excellent explanation.
Good eye, good knowledge, good skills and some good maths.
Cheers
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JD01
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by JD01 »

That's great, Mutt. Looks excellent and is really clear and easy to understand.

Would it be possible for you to slightly reduce the neck angle and then also lower the bridge slightly by removing the shim? Not suggesting that its a good idea just wondering if I have the science right.

How does a neck-through work then? 'cos you don't have a neck pocket/heal join when you can create the angle.
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Re: Les Paul Jnr Build :Templates and Body Blank

Post by muttley »

JD01 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:00 am That's great, Mutt. Looks excellent and is really clear and easy to understand.

Would it be possible for you to slightly reduce the neck angle and then also lower the bridge slightly by removing the shim? Not suggesting that its a good idea just wondering if I have the science right.

How does a neck-through work then? 'cos you don't have a neck pocket/heal join when you can create the angle.
The shim is there to place the bridge where it will be in its lowest position with the studs in place so effectively that IS the lowest possible bridge position.

On a neck thru you would plan to have the angle built in to the neck before you glue it up and tinker it by planing the face before you install the fingerboard. Neck thru does often limit the choice of bridge..
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