The Tone Thread

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
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Minerman
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

I meant to ask this earlier, but my brain turns to mush at times... :minernuggs:

Just wondering about your JCM800, I know it's a bright, cutting percussive amp & the mini Jube has some of those characteristics...When you start to get the master wound up, does your 800 lose top end/highs the farther you push the volume???

My amp doesn't get what I'd say muddy, but there's a really fine line on the master volume, starting around "7" that makes a big difference in the tone, like it smooths the high end out as I turn it up...From about "7" on the master, it's really sensitive too, turning the knob even just a cunt hair makes a difference...

I'm guessing what I'm talking about is the power tubes starting to really work, & for lack of a better description, it kinda "smears" the high end a little...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:53 am We could send DIs to each other and set the Jubilees the same way. You record your mini-Jube, send me the DI, and I'll run it through the big one with the same settings. I'll do the same with my guitar and big Jube, send you the DI, and you run it through your mini-Jube.

The 800 is a different animal. I don't know how that would work with the 800. Everything about the 800 and Jubilee is pretty different. We can set them the same and just see how different they are.
However you wanna do it man is cool with me, if you'd rather just plug into the amp & let it rip is cool...If you wanna do the re-amp thing, that's cool too...

I know the 800 & jubilee are pretty different, but are they that much different from each other??? I'm really curious if this little amp can get pretty similar tones...

BTW: Ceriatone posted a pic of their mini Jubilee clone on facebook today...Like the 2202 it uses 6V6's, but a few people asked Nik about EL34's, & he said he'd try to figure it out, so there may be some more low-watt EL34 amps before long...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:54 am I meant to ask this earlier, but my brain turns to mush at times... :minernuggs:

Just wondering about your JCM800, I know it's a bright, cutting percussive amp & the mini Jube has some of those characteristics...When you start to get the master wound up, does your 800 lose top end/highs the farther you push the volume???

My amp doesn't get what I'd say muddy, but there's a really fine line on the master volume, starting around "7" that makes a big difference in the tone, like it smooths the high end out as I turn it up...From about "7" on the master, it's really sensitive too, turning the knob even just a cunt hair makes a difference...

I'm guessing what I'm talking about is the power tubes starting to really work, & for lack of a better description, it kinda "smears" the high end a little...
That's pretty normal for old-school master volume Marshalls. Some of them can sound kind of shrill and thin at low volumes. A lot of people think 2203s are too bright, but they just aint playing them loud enough. When the master volume crosses that tipping point and the power section wakes up, it really smooths out the sound. I wouldn't say it loses highs, it just gets more balanced.

The Jubilee is much the same. It needs volume to smooth out, and at that point you can lower the gain a little and still have pretty much the same sound. The Jubilees I've played are almost useless at anything less than about 6 on the output master. 6 on a Jubilee is pretty loud, but not like 6 on a 2203. 6 on a 2203 is really loud. 6 on a 100w Jubilee is around bar/club gig volume. They're weird like that.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:07 am That's pretty normal for old-school master volume Marshalls. Some of them can sound kind of shrill and thin at low volumes. A lot of people think 2203s are too bright, but they just aint playing them loud enough. When the master volume crosses that tipping point and the power section wakes up, it really smooths out the sound. I wouldn't say it loses highs, it just gets more balanced.

The Jubilee is much the same. It needs volume to smooth out, and at that point you can lower the gain a little and still have pretty much the same sound. The Jubilees I've played are almost useless at anything less than about 6 on the output master. 6 on a Jubilee is pretty loud, but not like 6 on a 2203. 6 on a 2203 is really loud. 6 on a 100w Jubilee is around bar/club gig volume. They're weird like that.
That's what I was trying to describe, the power tubes making the top end smoother...

FWIW, the mini j isn't very loud IMO...Just guessing, it's about as loud as the Chupa in the "modern" mode (which was the quietest setting it had), minus a lot of gain...

There's not much difference in the loudness between 5w & 20w mode either...This is just a guess, but watching the meters in Reaper, there's roughly a 3db difference, give or take...

I think the EVH LBX may be a little louder than the mini j, I'll have to do some comparison clips...

Back to the shootout, just lemme know how & when man...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:07 am I know the 800 & jubilee are pretty different, but are they that much different from each other??? I'm really curious if this little amp can get pretty similar tones...
I think they're pretty different. I have a good chunk of experience with both amps and I find them quite different. But I admit that I cannot get the goods from a Jubilee. I don't jive with them at all. I know lots of people rip on those things, but not me. I've never cared for them myself. But gimme a single channel 800 and I can get along with that thing no matter where you set the knobs.

There isn't really an "800 sound" though, so it's not really fair or reasonable to try to make a Jubilee sound like one. The Jubilee sounds like no other Marshall, and 800s very rarely sound like what a lot of people think they're supposed to sound like. I bet a lot of 800s have been bought with dreams of spandex and hairspray tones flying out of those things, and they just don't work like that without OD pedals. I know my shredmeister buddy Chris doesn't really care for 800s. They don't have enough gain for him. He likes them when he hears other people play them, but he has no use for one. He loves his Jubilee though because they're great for flinging ripping leads all over the place. An 800 in it's natural state is pretty similar to a 70s-era Super Lead. Loud and angry and punchy and crunchy, but not "high gain", and not even Jubilee-level gain.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:18 am

Back to the shootout, just lemme know how & when man...
Let me ask Chris if I can use his Jube for a few days and I'll let you know. We'll do something regardless, but I'd really like to get his amp here and see what we can come up with.
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Re: The Tone Thread

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Greg_L wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:34 am Let me ask Chris if I can use his Jube for a few days and I'll let you know. We'll do something regardless, but I'd really like to get his amp here and see what we can come up with.
It's cool man, like I've said, I have all day every day, so we'll do this when it's good for you...

Ok, that explains things better for me man, when you mentioned using an od pedal is when the light came on...Your description of the 800 sorta sounds like my amp using the rhythm clip on the clean channel...

I was actually surprised with the amount of gain the mini j has, even on the lead channel it was less than I expected...But you gotta figure I've gotten used to the EVH LBX, which has an insane amount of gain on tap...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:03 am

It's cool man, like I've said, I have all day every day, so we'll do this when it's good for you...

Ok, that explains things better for me man, when you mentioned using an od pedal is when the light came on...Your description of the 800 sorta sounds like my amp using the rhythm clip on the clean channel...

I was actually surprised with the amount of gain the mini j has, even on the lead channel it was less than I expected...But you gotta figure I've gotten used to the EVH LBX, which has an insane amount of gain on tap...
I think the Jubilee has a lot of gain. It's just not a modern kind of gain. Go listen to post-AFD Guns n Roses stuff. The Use Your Illusion double album. Slash supposedly used Jubilees in that whole time period.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Okay miner, the eagle has landed.
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I have about 3 days with this thing, so what we gonna do?
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Re: The Tone Thread

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Greg_L wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:28 pm Okay miner, the eagle has landed.
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I have about 3 days with this thing, so what we gonna do?


I've got my Lester in my lap right now dude, with the Greenback, '57 & a condenser in the ISO cab, so we could just go from there if you wanna...

I've got a 3 more speakers (G12-65 re-issue, G12H Anniversary & V30), plus a couple more mics (Audix i5, Sennheiser e609) that you probably have, so the ball is in your court dude...

Dunno how much trouble swapping stuff around is on your end, but I can do it fairly quick over here dude... :biggrin:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Well...people usually prefer their Jubilees with Vintage 30s or G12T-75s. And of course the 57 is the go-to cab mic.

Let's go off the beaten path and use G12-65s and an i5/e609 blend. That should be sufficiently weird for Jubilee tones. :D
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

65.jpg
Let's mic the 65 like this.....using my awesome artwork!

i5 - red dot
609 - red square
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Re: The Tone Thread

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Greg_L wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:47 pm Well...people usually prefer their Jubilees with Vintage 30s or G12T-75s. And of course the 57 is the go-to cab mic.

Let's go off the beaten path and use G12-65s and an i5/e609 blend. That should be sufficiently weird for Jubilee tones. :D
Cool drawing dude... :biggrin:

Gimme a few minutes to set everything up, & I've got an idea too...I'll upload a backing track to play to, nothing hard or complicated at all, & I know you can play it...

The backing track was a 1/2 step down, but I pitched it up in Reaper...We can pitch it back down if you wanna...
Backing Track 4 Gerg.mp3
We don't have to go through the whole song man, just thought it might be a bit different...

Lemme know if this works for you dude...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:39 pm

Cool drawing dude... :biggrin:

Gimme a few minutes to set everything up, & I've got an idea too...I'll upload a backing track to play to, nothing hard or complicated at all, & I know you can play it...

The backing track was a 1/2 step down, but I pitched it up in Reaper...We can pitch it back down if you wanna...
Backing Track 4 Gerg.mp3

We don't have to go through the whole song man, just thought it might be a bit different...

Lemme know if this works for you dude...
I guess that's fine but I have no idea what that song is.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:59 pm I guess that's fine but I have no idea what that song is.
You'll know about as soon as it starts man...These guys were in the news the last couple of days...The rest I'm sure you can figure out by listening...



This looks like a Pignose speaker because of the angle, but that's about as close as I could get to your artwork dude... :minernuggs:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

I'm guessing it's an AC/DC song. Maybe The Jack? Not my favorite lol. I don't like that bluesy crap.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Bubba »

Minerman wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:19 pm
Greg_L wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:59 pm I guess that's fine but I have no idea what that song is.
You'll know about as soon as it starts man...These guys were in the news the last couple of days...The rest I'm sure you can figure out by listening...



This looks like a Pignose speaker because of the angle, but that's about as close as I could get to your artwork dude... :minernuggs:
You would be better off putting the E609 on the right-hand side of the cone, because as it is now you're miking the edge of the cone instead of halfway across it, as Gerg's drawing shows. Intriguing experiment. :smiles:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Bubba wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:38 pm You would be better off putting the E609 on the right-hand side of the cone, because as it is now you're miking the edge of the cone instead of halfway across it, as Gerg's drawing shows. Intriguing experiment. :smiles:
The angle of the pic makes it look that way dude, but just to satisfy my OCD, I'll move 'em... :minernuggs:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:23 pm I'm guessing it's an AC/DC song. Maybe The Jack? Not my favorite lol. I don't like that bluesy crap.
Night Prowler dude...I figured you'd recognize it right off, but anyway... :smiles:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:22 pm

Night Prowler dude...I figured you'd recognize it right off, but anyway... :smiles:
Lol. The breath thing at the beginning should have gave it away. :facepalm:

But no, I usually skip them slower songs. I've never tried to play it.
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