ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

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Minerman
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ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

**WARNING** **LONG-ASS POST** :minernuggs:

Ok all you Rebels, it doesn't look like I'm gonna be moving this year (you never know, but I don't expect it), so I'm gonna build another ISO cab to use on my recordings, rather than going back to ampsims...Now, don't get me wrong, the ampsims are getting better & I personally have nothing against 'em, but I'm all in with real amps/cabs/mics...I just have too much time/$$$ invested & have learned too much to give up, so the ISO cab will be what I'll use until I get another pad where I can get loud...And whenever that day does finally come, I'll still have a low-noise option for the late night thing...

I'm looking at a couple different ways to go about this, & would like to hear what you guys think about both, plus maybe throw some ideas in I hadn't thought of...

There is a limitation on the overall size, it can't be over 27 & 1/2" wide because it wouldn't fit through the doorways where I live right now...

Here's what I have planned so far:
ISO Cab dimensions.png

Option #1:
The usual "box in a box" thing...I have a couple options going this route too...

Option 1A): Build an all-plywood "box in a box"...Instead of a single layer of plywood, then Roxul, then the inner box, I could "double wall" each box...Instead of having a 1/2" thick outer/inner box, glue/screw the plywood together making it 1" thick, with green glue in between each layer of plywood...Same thing with the inner box, basically "double wall" with a 2" gap between the boxes packed with rockwool...

Pros:
  • It would definitely be sturdy, & would most likely kill a lot of the noise I'm concerned about...
  • The overall price wouldn't be too bad, but I'd be looking at around $150 just for the plywood...
  • Would probably sound pretty good because of my previous experience...
Cons:
  • A box this size (outer box dimensions: 36"L x 24"H x 24"D...inner: 30"L x 18"L x 18"H) would be heavy as fuck & would be a pain in the ass when I finally get a new pad...A single sheet of 1/2" plywood is roughly 40 lbs, so the overall weight would be close to 200 lbs...


Option 1B): Build another "box in a box" using the same method as above, only substitute 2 layers of plywood with sheetrock/drywall...This would knock down the cost quite a bit, which is always good...I'm a cheap fucker...

Pros:
  • As mentioned, it'd be a little cheaper going this route & would probably be as effective killing the noise as an all plywood box...
  • Would probably sound pretty good because of my previous experience...
Cons:
  • Again, the weight, but this would only really apply when I finally do get to move...
ISO Cab layers.png
Short version, I'd have 2" of rockwool sandwiched between 1" thick boxes...The first build I did only had 3/4" walls with 2" of rockwool & did a great job killing the noise, plus sounded pretty good recorded...Hopefully the next build will be even better...

Option #2:
Take a mini-fridge/freezer & turn it into an ISO cab...

I've read up on ISO cabs a lot in the last little while, & along with my previous experience stumbled on a couple builds where a fridge/freezer was used as the outer box...In those builds, the guys used a full sized fridge, with a plywood box inside, which I'm pretty sure would be great on the noise, but space is a concern somewhat, so if I go this route, I'll be using a mini-fridge...

Pros:
  • The weight would most likely be reduced quite a bit, since a mini-fridge only weighs about 50-60 lbs, & I'd make it even lighter because I'd remove all the compressor/other shit I wouldn't need...
  • The fridge/freezer door would probably do great because of the way the magnetized gasket seals it up...
  • This route would probably be a lot easier to build, I'd just have to seal up the back & bottom, then basically drop the plywood box in...
  • Would be much easier to move if/when I had to, plus it'd probably look better than the first route...
Cons:
  • I'm not sure how well the mini-fridge/freezer would kill the noise...The outer shell is thin metal, with pumped-in insulation making the walls around 1 1/2" thick...
  • I'd like to use 2" of rockwool in between the plywood/inner box & the fridge/freezer, but may not be able to...Depends on the dimensions of the fridge/freezer...
  • Not sure if it'd sound as good as an all-wood box or not, I don't see why it wouldn't, but I'm not 100% sure...Uncharted territory here...
Mini fridge dimensions.png

I have plans for the inside too, but the only thing I'll mention for now is rockwool inside where the speaker/mic will be to knock down reflections as much as possible, along with using caulk/silicone to seal it up...

Sorry for the long-ass post guys, but I'd like to hear your opinions on this, & if you have any ideas feel free to suggest 'em...
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Greg_L »

I'd do the plywood box-in-a-box....and make sure your port it inside. Your dimensions look like they'd be big enough. Maybe attach some wheels so you can roll it around, and that will also decouple it from the floor.
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:01 pm I'd do the plywood box-in-a-box....and make sure your port it inside. Your dimensions look like they'd be big enough. Maybe attach some wheels so you can roll it around, and that will also decouple it from the floor.
Thanks dude, I have more things planned as the build progresses, I just didn't mention 'em yet...

I plan on making a hole in the baffle & having a hole (about 2-3" in diameter) on each end of the bottom of the inner box...The outer box will have a hole about the same size as the inner box directly in the center...I'll cover it from the inside with some sort of cloth to keep the rockwool fibers at bay, & in "theory" the speaker moving the air will force it out the holes, reducing the noise as it passes through the rockwool...

I think this is a big thing, as it follows the same principal as the Rivera ISO cab, which coincidentally sounds better than any of the commercial ISO cabs, judging by YT clips I've heard...Yes, the clips could've been "doctored" after the fact, but the experience with the Randall ISO cab I had pretty much confirms that this does matter...

It does make sense, our 4x12's are out in a room & are able to "breathe" by pushing/pulling air...In a sealed box, the air has nowhere to go, so it basically pummels the speaker & makes it sound like shit, in short the boxy Randall ISO cab tone...

Almost forgot, I still have the wheels from the last build, along with a couple goosenecks, & a little short boom arm... :minernuggs:
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

I've finally decided to start on this thing, I'm gonna go with an all-plywood, box in a box...

Basically the whole thing will be the same as in the original post, the dimensions will be the same:
Outer: 36" L x 24" W x 24" H
Inner: 30" L x 18" W x 18" H)

Each box will be made with 1/2" plywood, screwed/green glued together making the walls of each box 1" thick...Caulk all the seams, weather strip the lids, sealing everything except the vents, which should allow the speaker/mic to "breathe", & should make a big difference in the recorded sound...I'll use 2" of roxul in between the boxes, & will make some small panels to go inside the inner box...

I'm going tomorrow to pick up the wood & whatever else I can find locally, but will probably have to order the green glue online...I think I have enough roxul from the first build (that I made panels from, & I'm not using most of 'em)...

The only thing I haven't decided is what kind of paint/finish I'm gonna use on the outside...I'd thought about using tolex, but that would most likely be a disaster, so I'm leaning toward using duratex (which is like liquid truck bed liner, applied with a paint roller)...

I plan on using a router to round the corners/edges off, so this build will take a little time...I hope this one works & sounds as good as the last build, but it should as I've learned a lot about this since then...

Gonna go with 2 mics, & instead of using goosenecks or small booms for 'em, I'm gonna use a couple of small stereo mic bars mounted on a couple of small rails, that I'll be able to individually adjust the height & distance from the speaker for each mic...That should give me a lot more control over each mic, & won't take up near as much space as a gooseneck/boom...

Of course, I know I'm not gonna make a loud-ass tube amp completely silent, but if I can knock the noise down like the other cab did (hopefully even a little better), I'll be pretty happy, & won't get into a shit-storm over the noise...

More to come... :minernuggs:
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Greg_L »

Awesome. Take lots of pics!
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:20 am Awesome. Take lots of pics!
I already have that planned dude...I'm actually excited about this because not only will it allow me to keep using my amp, it'll open up some doors like buying another amp or three, & it's a challenge to make this one better than the last build, plus on top of that, I enjoy shit like this...

The "behemoth" (lol, the first ISO cab) was basically just slapped together in a big rush to finish it in order to keep chasing tones...I'm gonna do my best on this one to make it 1: sound good, 2: make it a little quieter than the last, & 3: look good...

To be honest, I'm thinking about selling or trading the "bastard" cab...I'll be using one of the speakers that's in it right now, so I may get rid of it...Later down the road (depending on when I get to move), I may buy a 2x12...I like the 2061x cabs Sourmash makes, I've been eyeing those for a couple of years now...

So this ISO cab build is gonna put my feet toward some other things I've had to put aside for a while now...
The last 3 years or so have really kicked my ass, but I feel like I'm finally getting back on my feet now & can continue some of the things I simply just haven't been able to do...
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by rayc »

Refrigerators make excellent hydro gardens.
I look forward to following your DIY whilst knowing I'm completely GSETDI.
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:42 am

To be honest, I'm thinking about selling or trading the "bastard" cab...I'll be using one of the speakers that's in it right now,
Which speaker? You have four different speakers in that thing!

You have a nice supply of speakers. You should make your iso cab in a way that it would be easy to switch speakers in and out.
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

rayc wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:42 am Refrigerators make excellent hydro gardens.
I look forward to following your DIY whilst knowing I'm completely GSETDI.
Thanks Ray, I plan on quite a few pics as the build progresses & most likely a video showing how much noise is killed when it's finished...
Greg_L wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:45 am Which speaker? You have four different speakers in that thing!

You have a nice supply of speakers. You should make your iso cab in a way that it would be easy to switch speakers in and out.
Thanks Greg, I'll be using all of those speakers eventually, but most likely the Greenback will be the first one I try, those are my favorite speakers...

Instead of standing upright with the speaker facing up like some of the commercial ISO cabs, I'm gonna have the speaker facing L/R...Dunno if you remember the old ISO or not, but I used carriage bolts & wingnuts to make it quick/easy to swap speakers...I'm basically gonna do the same thing, only I'll use t-nuts & bolts just like a real cab...Swapping a speaker will be quick-n-easy...

The mic bars I'm gonna use should be pretty neat...I got the idea from a company called "Box of Doom", which is a roadcase made into an ISO cab & uses aluminum rails for the mics...





While mine won't be exactly like this, it'll be using the same idea...I'll have a little more room with the distance to the speaker, & my internal mic cables will be hard-wired to the jackplate on one end, & the other end will connect to the mic(s)...A '57 with the cable plugged in is roughly 7-8", & I'll have about 20" in front of the speaker, which will give me about 10-12" of adjustment to/from the speaker...

The guys who make/sell the Box of Doom sell those rails, baffles, & even a case to put extra speakers/baffles in when they're not being used...I'd thought about making a baffle for each speaker I have, & still might, but I'm probably just gonna go with t-nuts & bolts...

I'd considered just buying one of their ISO cabs, but they're over $1,000 :eep: , so I'll just go the diy route...
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Greg_L »

If you steal every idea in those pics and make your own, I think you'll be in good shape.
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:28 pm If you steal every idea in those pics and make your own, I think you'll be in good shape.
Yeah dude, I think that rail system is the best mic adjustment/placement thing I've ever seen, it's pretty cool IMO...

When I first heard about the "Box of Doom", I got pretty excited until I saw the price, holy fuck, it cost more than the Rivera ISO cab...
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:00 pm
Yeah dude, I think that rail system is the best mic adjustment/placement thing I've ever seen, it's pretty cool IMO...

When I first heard about the "Box of Doom", I got pretty excited until I saw the price, holy fuck, it cost more than the Rivera ISO cab...
The mic jack plate and speaker jack plate is awesome too. You don't have to have cables running in and out of it. That box of doom has some great ideas incorporated into it. Steal all of them!
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:01 pm The mic jack plate and speaker jack plate is awesome too. You don't have to have cables running in and out of it. That box of doom has some great ideas incorporated into it. Steal all of them!
I'll only have one jack plate mounted on the outside with 2 mic inputs & 2 speaker jacks (in case I'd wanna connect another speaker/cab)...The internal cables will be hard-wired/soldered to the jack plate on one end, & the other will plug into the mics/speaker...
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

Just letting you guys know I already have almost everything, & it's ready to assemble, but I'm still waiting on the green glue...It's "hurry up & wait" because the green glue goes in between each layer, so I'm stuck until it arrives...

I do have all the pieces cut & labeled, so it won't take very long to put it together...

I took a chance on finding the green glue locally, but it came back & bit me in the ass...None of the hick hardware stores around here have even heard of it...

Whenever I do get it assembled, I'm gonna make some clips showing how much noise it kills, but I'll have to do that over in 30 days...The green glue takes 30 days to fully set up & do what it's supposed to...I'm not expecting anything huge in the noise difference, but maybe it'll knock it down a little more after that shit sets up...We'll see, more to come...
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by rayc »

The basis of Green Glue was 1st developed in Oz. I saw it on an inventions program decades ago. There wasn't much interest at the time but I was impressed - saw & listened to the tests.
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

rayc wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:10 am The basis of Green Glue was 1st developed in Oz. I saw it on an inventions program decades ago. There wasn't much interest at the time but I was impressed - saw & listened to the tests.
From what I've read about green glue, it does really good, but it's only part of a bigger equation...

The green glue will go in between all the layers, plus in the seams where each piece joins & anywhere else I can, plus "regular" silicone caulk anywhere else I'd need to seal (like around the jack plate for example)...

I have some 2"x 2" x 7/8" thick rubber/cork/rubber pads on the way I'm gonna use to try to de-couple the inner box from the outer...

I'm gonna attempt to vent the cab with a hole on each end of the inner box, that will lead to a hole in the center/bottom of the outer box...The inner box will "vent" into a "labyrinth" with the sound traveling through a small maze, going through different thickness of rockwool until it finally gets out of the cab...The theory being as the noise passes each part of the labyrinth, it'll be knocked down a little more...This is basically how the Rivera Silent Sister works, & IMO, is why it sounds better than the other ISO cabs I've heard...

I know this will cause a lot of noise to leak, but from what I've read, it should make a difference in the recorded tones...This does make sense to me, as the Randall ISO I had was basically completely sealed, but sounded very boxy...The first ISO I built wasn't completely sealed, & sounded much better, I believe because the mic & speaker could move/breathe like they're supposed to...

I'm gonna make a small "door" for the outer box's vent, so I can try it with different levels of openness, or seal it completely, to see what works best...

The rest of the materials I'm waiting on should be here around the end of the week...

I'm actually pretty excited, & this build should be better than the last because the total thickness of the walls (2 1/2" compared to 1 1/2"), combined with the green glue, combined with the de-coupling, hopefully will make quite a difference in the noise level...This build will also have a proper jack plate, with 2 mic jacks, & 2 - 1/4" speaker jacks, instead of holes cut into the box...

More to come... :minernuggs:
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

The Green Glue arrived this evening around 7, so I'll get started on the build tomorrow...The other stuff won't be here for a few more days, so I can only get so far, but at least I can get a little done...



2 - 28oz tubes of this shit was $45 shipped... :eep:

More to come...
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Tadpui »

It's a shame that Green Glue is so damn expensive! Fortunately I was oblivious to the cost when I had the basement studio done, else I may have been tempted to skip it. Glad I didn't!
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Just out of curioisty is there a substance that exists that is the same as green glue bit is marketed differently for a different purpose.

It may not apply to green glue but sometimes i think somethings are marketed to a certain demographic and marked up wildly when it doesnt need to be.

Im drunk amd rambling ignore me. Bad day.
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Re: ISO Cab Build...suggestions/tips wanted...

Post by Minerman »

WhiskeyJack wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:48 am Just out of curioisty is there a substance that exists that is the same as green glue bit is marketed differently for a different purpose.

It may not apply to green glue but sometimes i think somethings are marketed to a certain demographic and marked up wildly when it doesnt need to be.

Im drunk amd rambling ignore me. Bad day.
I'm not sure anything exists that does the same as Green Glue, that's supposed to do something else, but I understand where you're coming from, anything to make a dollar is the norm in the time we live...

There are a few different products that claim to do the same, like QuietSeal Pro, which is a little cheaper...But from what I've read, there isn't much difference between the two, price or performance wise...Green Glue (and the other similar products) never harden, from what I've read...It remains elastic-y & will give/shift with whatever it's applied to, again, from what I've read...

I read a few reviews for QuietSeal that said it remained basically a liquid, then eventually ran down the walls, & puddled in the floor...I just didn't wanna take a chance on QuietSeal because of this...My little project isn't on a scale as most others, they're usually a whole room, & using 1 tube per 4' x 8' section could be quite expensive, especially if it puddled in the floor, you'd basically thrown everything you invested in soundproofing, plus the time/labor in the shitter, only to have to do it over, which would suck to put it mildly...A 12' x 12' room would take about a case (12 tubes) of Green Glue, which comes to around $200...That's not counting anything else like drywall, 2 x 4's, etc...On defense of QuietSeal, the tubes were old/outdated & had expired the shelf life, which was the retailer's fault for selling customers old products...

FWIW, I never read about anything like that happening with Green Glue...

I'll take some pics during the build to show the progress...More to come... :minernuggs:
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